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KLOS Sold - Now it's a Fact!

Wrong. They can invest in the music. Radio stations did it all the time once upon a time - they paid for entire orchestras to make sure the product was good (when orchestras were a thing).

There were several reasons for the prevalence of orchestras on the radio.

The first was the record industry's desire to prevent radio from "burning out" record releases by playing them (analogy: the movie industry not wanting to release films to TV when that medium was new).

And there was the American Federation of Musicians and the bizarre Mr. Petrillo who required stations in markets as small as Chattanooga and Macon to have studio orchestras that had as much airtime as any recorded music played.

Over it all was the way recorded music evolved. Until the post-War era, recorded music was song based. Many orchestras and singers might do their versions of hit songs. This was a throwback to sheet music, where one bought the tune and played or interpreted it each in their own manner. Songs were hits, singers were not.

Some of the song-based system endured into the 50's with programs like Your Hit Parade with Snooky Lanson, Dorothy Collins and others singing the week's top songs. No, not the original versions by the original artists... a couple of singers doing their versions of the hit songs.

Today there is a lot that radio can do to fix bad music. Mainly by identifying the good music that does exist - this may come as a shock, but not all new music is bad (it just seems that way!). It is your airwaves, don't just put on a product that sucks and say "that is all the record company will give us" - that is a lame answer and any business that relies on such a bad business model deserves to fail and most certainly will.

Stations that play current music do exactly that. They play the best new releases. But due to licensing issues, they generally try to be sure that each song is covered by their performance rights licenses and they don't have... and can't afford... to check rights and clearances for every self-produced song.

And listeners often want stations that only play familiar songs from an era that was musically pleasing to them. I remember a one-on-one interview about 25 years ago that I did for an oldies station in DC... a woman said "I like those songs because they remind me of the only time in my life I was really happy." That tidbit is a sample of the deep intelligence one can glean from real listeners. In this case, she did not want to hear new songs or different songs or deep cuts; she wanted to hear the music that defined her happiest years.

On the other hand the station can be proactive:
- sponsor music talent competitions,
- identify quality local (or even non-local) bands,
- put out new music samplers (KFOG did this successfully for years),
- give bands time on the radio on non-revenue productive Sunday nights.
- Bring in a guest DJ from a college station to spin records on the same Sunday night.
- Synergize and cross-promote with a station like KCSN so that artists that are popular there can make an easy transition to the "Big signal" radio stations.
- Sponsor a local summer tour for the best up and coming band identified during the year.
- Get behind a few new new songs and put them in heavy rotation during the week (Little Steven does this on his Underground Garage playing the "Coolest Record in the World" that gets put in heavy rotation and identified as such every week).

Again, many listeners... nearly all of them after they reach a transition point in life as they mature... cease to be actively looking for new music. They want to hear familiar songs, and they have a decade or two of "favorites" they want to hear. An occasional new song that "fits" is fine, but they have limited new music assimilation abilities and a low tolerance for unfamiliar tunes.

When I was programming an AOR station that did play currents... and which was hugely #1 in a market about the size of New York City... we tried a new music / new artist show on Sunday evening. Even with promotion and the largest cume in the Western Hemisphere, the show tanked the station not just in that hour but for the rest of the evening. We could fold in a new song or two by a well known artist in the playlist every week or two, but songs you'd never heard by artists you'd never heard of did not work even on a very, very dominant station. Yet we had put in a lot of effort to try to find good, compatible songs. It failed.

Most of your ideas are dated: to give one example, a new music sampler assumes anyone today wants physical product and has a device to play it. Folks looking for new songs and bands have a much broader choice of sources and don't give a rats posterior about a "sampler" of songs, most of which they will not like in today's fragmented world.

Of course when you are doing these things you will need to promote, promote, promote. As I said, it takes time, takes energy, takes money. It also keeps formats, stations and the jobs and careers that go with them fresh and vibrant. Or again, you can just sit back and say its the record companies' fault that we play 40 year old music that hasn't evolved because "we don't own the music". You'll even get approving gold stars and upvotes on boards like this.

Getting back to KLOS, what we have today is a station that is long-famous for playing big familiar rock songs. It is not famous for playing new and unknown ones. The listener age appeal is well in the area where music discovery is not a positive or appealing quality. KLOS' issues are more in the area of cultural change in the market and musical taste changes among listeners.
 
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Getting back to KLOS, what we have today is a station that is famous for playing big familiar rock songs. It is not famous for playing new and unknown ones. The listener age appeal is well in the area where music discovery is not a positive or appealing quality. KLOS' issues are more in the area of cultural change in the market and musical taste changes among listeners.

The station that played the unfamiliar, and even the occasional parody song (thanks to Dr. Demento) was KMET, and we know what happened to them. The ABC stations, KLOS among them, stuck to the hits. ABC was big corporate radio before there was such a thing.
 
On the other hand the station can be proactive:
- sponsor music talent competitions,
- identify quality local (or even non-local) bands,
- put out new music samplers (KFOG did this successfully for years),
- give bands time on the radio on non-revenue productive Sunday nights.
- Bring in a guest DJ from a college station to spin records on the same Sunday night.
- Synergize and cross-promote with a station like KCSN so that artists that are popular there can make an easy transition to the "Big signal" radio stations.
- Sponsor a local summer tour for the best up and coming band identified during the year.
- Get behind a few new new songs and put them in heavy rotation during the week (Little Steven does this on his Underground Garage playing the "Coolest Record in the World" that gets put in heavy rotation and identified as such every week).

Of course when you are doing these things you will need to promote, promote, promote. As I said, it takes time, takes energy, takes money. It also keeps formats, stations and the jobs and careers that go with them fresh and vibrant. Or again, you can just sit back and say its the record companies' fault that we play 40 year old music that hasn't evolved because "we don't own the music". You'll even get approving gold stars and upvotes on boards like this.

I will say KLOS playing Joney's Jukebox is a step in the right direction and should be applauded. In the corporate rock world, it is an exception.


Radio has been Proactive Case and point Iheart O&O's on their Hot AC/CHR stations they do ads promoting concerts under the Iheart Music Festival Banner where they mention the top CHR/Hot AC Talent will be in those concerts in a certain part of the country though. Promote certain podcast hosts on their apps.
 
Case in point: "The Voice" winner Chris Blue from Knoxville TN. His producer/manager/mentor is Hallerin Hilton Hill, who is a musician and also the afternoon drive personality on our local news/talk station (News Talk 98.7 WOKI). Chris gets plenty of promotion on the show, and appears on Hal and Phil live stage show5. He gets frequent TV coverage. As far as I know, he has never gotten a playlist spot on B97.5, the big A/C station





There were several reasons for the prevalence of orchestras on the radio.

The first was the record industry's desire to prevent radio from "burning out" record releases by playing them (analogy: the movie industry not wanting to release films to TV when that medium was new).

And there was the American Federation of Musicians and the bizarre Mr. Petrillo who required stations in markets as small as Chattanooga and Macon to have studio orchestras that had as much airtime as any recorded music played.

Over it all was the way recorded music evolved. Until the post-War era, recorded music was song based. Many orchestras and singers might do their versions of hit songs. This was a throwback to sheet music, where one bought the tune and played or interpreted it each in their own manner. Songs were hits, singers were not.

Some of the song-based system endured into the 50's with programs like Your Hit Parade with Snooky Lanson, Dorothy Collins and others singing the week's top songs. No, not the original versions by the original artists... a couple of singers doing their versions of the hit songs.



Stations that play current music do exactly that. They play the best new releases. But due to licensing issues, they generally try to be sure that each song is covered by their performance rights licenses and they don't have... and can't afford... to check rights and clearances for every self-produced song.

And listeners often want stations that only play familiar songs from an era that was musically pleasing to them. I remember a one-on-one interview about 25 years ago that I did for an oldies station in DC... a woman said "I like those songs because they remind me of the only time in my life I was really happy." That tidbit is a sample of the deep intelligence one can glean from real listeners. In this case, she did not want to hear new songs or different songs or deep cuts; she wanted to hear the music that defined her happiest years.



Again, many listeners... nearly all of them after they reach a transition point in life as they mature... cease to be actively looking for new music. They want to hear familiar songs, and they have a decade or two of "favorites" they want to hear. An occasional new song that "fits" is fine, but they have limited new music assimilation abilities and a low tolerance for unfamiliar tunes.

When I was programming an AOR station that did play currents... and which was hugely #1 in a market about the size of New York City... we tried a new music / new artist show on Sunday evening. Even with promotion and the largest cume in the Western Hemisphere, the show tanked the station not just in that hour but for the rest of the evening. We could fold in a new song or two by a well known artist in the playlist every week or two, but songs you'd never heard by artists you'd never heard of did not work even on a very, very dominant station. Yet we had put in a lot of effort to try to find good, compatible songs. It failed.

Most of your ideas are dated: to give one example, a new music sampler assumes anyone today wants physical product and has a device to play it. Folks looking for new songs and bands have a much broader choice of sources and don't give a rats posterior about a "sampler" of songs, most of which they will not like in today's fragmented world.



Getting back to KLOS, what we have today is a station that is long-famous for playing big familiar rock songs. It is not famous for playing new and unknown ones. The listener age appeal is well in the area where music discovery is not a positive or appealing quality. KLOS' issues are more in the area of cultural change in the market and musical taste changes among listeners.
 
Radio has been Proactive Case and point Iheart O&O's on their Hot AC/CHR stations they do ads promoting concerts under the Iheart Music Festival Banner where they mention the top CHR/Hot AC Talent will be in those concerts in a certain part of the country though. Promote certain podcast hosts on their apps.

Yes, I agree. They have put on those big summer concerts , annual Jingle Balls and several other events to keep the stations (Especially KIIS-FM) fresh and updated. They put in the type of work I am talking about and thus it is no surprise that their stations dominate the top 5 in the local ratings. And just because they are in some of the most popular formats does not mean success is guaranteed. Radio in general and LA radio in particular are strewn with the dead corpses of unsuccessful hit radio stations. So you have to ask "why are they successful year after year when others have not?" Their willingness to invest in their own product is a big part of the answer.

As to David's point, yes NOW listeners tune into KLOS to hear the familiar and not be musically challenged. The time to do the things I am talking about was 20 years ago. They chose not to and played the same tired Boston and Eagles records, which condemned the station (and overall format, since everyone else made the same decision) to a certain death as soon as their listeners tired or aged out, which is what is going on now. It is a testament to the quality of the music that the format has vastly outlived its expiration date.
 
It is a testament to the quality of the music that the format has vastly outlived its expiration date.

Not really. What we're seeing is that classic rock has found a new audience with millennials who prefer it to current rock. This may be a surprise to you, but if you're 25 years old, songs by Boston and the Eagles are new to you. Classic rockers like WMGK and WDVE are showing up Top 5 with 18-34. Old rock brings people together. New rock drives people apart. I can play a new rock song today and know it will alienate a portion of the audience. That doesn't happen with Free Bird. LA Has two alternative stations that are splitting the currents audience. Throw in a third station playing active rock and they'll all hover around the same spot.
 
But you can say when the sound was around 100.3 the sound and 95.5 klos splintered the classic rock audience. And the sound goin away didnt help klos that much.
 
Not really. What we're seeing is that classic rock has found a new audience with millennials who prefer it to current rock. This may be a surprise to you, but if you're 25 years old, songs by Boston and the Eagles are new to you. Classic rockers like WMGK and WDVE are showing up Top 5 with 18-34. Old rock brings people together. New rock drives people apart. I can play a new rock song today and know it will alienate a portion of the audience. That doesn't happen with Free Bird. LA Has two alternative stations that are splitting the currents audience. Throw in a third station playing active rock and they'll all hover around the same spot.

You say *not really" , but I think everything you said validates my point. "Free Bird" is a great song; I just don't need to hear it for the thousandth time. That said it is vastly superior to most rock being made today, alt or otherwise, thus I and my millenial employee would still both prefer to hear it because we both feel the same way about today's rock - it sucks.

And given my experience working with him I am not surprised at all by what you are saying. He knows the 70s and 80s classic rock library very well, much less so 60s and before but his knowledge almost disappears from about 1990 on. His favorite classic rockers are Pink Floyd and Neil Young. But to prove how weak he is post-1990, he doesn't know who Alannis Morrissete is or any of her hit records. I found that to be fascinating.
 
You say *not really" , but I think everything you said validates my point.

I attend a lot of music conferences around the country, and I can tell you that the music industry is not at all interested in promoting new rock on the radio. They've cut their promo budgets to almost zero. They see their job as creating touring acts. All the promo is in Top 40, urban, country, and pop. Not much alternative either. If the labels and artists aren't promoting their own music, there's no motivation for radio to do their job for them. Someone has to grease the wheels. If you go to a rock music conference, all of the talk is about social media, streaming, and touring. As a result, new rock is mainly off the radar. That's why a lot of millennials don't even know about it.
 
As pertains to rock specifically, how much of an influence on exposure to new rock music was MTV? It seems half of the discussions I've had, or read, on various music threads (FB or YT primarily), the music fans mention being introduced to a new artist via a music video on MTV, as opposed to hearing it on the radio.

As we all know, MTV is no longer at the center of music promotion. I don't even know if they still have music videos, or if they have ratings. But during the time period between 1981 and probably 2004, I think they had pull. One of their request programs supposedly affected music sales as late as 2001.
 
But during the time period between 1981 and probably 2004, I think they had pull. One of their request programs supposedly affected music sales as late as 2001.

You're correct. But what was happening at MTV during the 90s was a move away from rock and towards pop and rap, so that by 2001, the conversion was basically complete. By the time MTV launched TRL (Total Request Live) the conversion was complete, and TRL was a promotion vehicle for pop music, not rock.
 
As pertains to rock specifically, how much of an influence on exposure to new rock music was MTV? It seems half of the discussions I've had, or read, on various music threads (FB or YT primarily), the music fans mention being introduced to a new artist via a music video on MTV, as opposed to hearing it on the radio.

As we all know, MTV is no longer at the center of music promotion. I don't even know if they still have music videos, or if they have ratings. But during the time period between 1981 and probably 2004, I think they had pull. One of their request programs supposedly affected music sales as late as 2001.

I remember VH1 was done in a similar way around the 1990's to early 2000's until 2005-2006? approx when some of the pop and rock acts were broadcasting official music videos on that venue too until Vevo, Youtube various Internet radio outlets and Itunes became the place for current pop, rock and other music genre acts to go to and the median audience shifted there through various promotions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vevo
 
I remember VH1 was done in a similar way around the 1990's to early 2000's until 2005-2006? approx when some of the pop and rock acts were broadcasting official music videos on that venue too until Vevo, Youtube various Internet radio outlets and Itunes became the place for current pop, rock and other music genre acts to go to and the median audience shifted there through various promotions.

And the record labels themselves were investors in Vevo. But even before that, the Viacom music channels MTV, VH1, and CMT were developing their own platform for video distribution, because they recognized that reality shows were attracting more audience than music videos. My the late 90s it was very apparent that music, particularly rock music, was not a good way to attract a consensus audience.
 
As pertains to rock specifically, how much of an influence on exposure to new rock music was MTV? It seems half of the discussions I've had, or read, on various music threads (FB or YT primarily), the music fans mention being introduced to a new artist via a music video on MTV, as opposed to hearing it on the radio.

As we all know, MTV is no longer at the center of music promotion. I don't even know if they still have music videos, or if they have ratings. But during the time period between 1981 and probably 2004, I think they had pull. One of their request programs supposedly affected music sales as late as 2001.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABFtbYKW-QY

Interestingly Jason Mraz did a song called Wordplay back in 2005. Back at the time of the songs release there was a line where it said "Music for the Television" a reference to their official music videos being released to MTV and VH1 at the time. This is the same time frame when the recording distributors were considering but no deal was confirmed back in 2005 having their songs and official videos released on Itunes, Internet Radio websites, DVD's and Youtube at the time. I do remember back in 2005 the leaders and investors of Warner Music, Sony Music and Universal Music did complain for awhile about Music Piracy at that point until the leaders realize they were dealing with a venue shift on their hands like people moving from CD's to Mp3's and streaming audio though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordplay_(song)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._A–Z
 
As a result, new rock is mainly off the radar. That's why a lot of millennials don't even know about it.

And why 75% of the music on the charts reek today, because lack of quality rock. I suppose music comes in cycles. Right now it's pop and, unfortunately rap.
 
The station that played the unfamiliar, and even the occasional parody song (thanks to Dr. Demento) was KMET, and we know what happened to them. The ABC stations, KLOS among them, stuck to the hits. ABC was big corporate radio before there was such a thing.

1968-1987, not too shabby. And remember they were Album Rock, not Classic Rock. Album cuts, deep and familiar were their game and listeners loved it. K-Earth will reach 50 amazing years in 2022, but not by its 250 song playlist, only by its iconic name for several generations. About as famous by name as the Pantry in downtown. A great place to eat, by the way.
 
1968-1987, not too shabby. And remember they were Album Rock, not Classic Rock. Album cuts, deep and familiar were their game and listeners loved it.

Owned by Metromedia, a company that basically syndicated the formula in all of its major markets, including San Francisco (where it began) New York, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Cleveland. Their mythology was built on their first few years where, yes, they played deep album cuts. That stopped company wide by the mid 70s as they tightened their playlists. They'd advertise pictures of the huge record library, but the vast majority of the music came from a narrow group of artists who are now the foundation of classic rock. That's the way it remained until one by one, they all died with the exception of WMMR in Philadelphia and WMMS Cleveland.
 
1968-1987, not too shabby. And remember they were Album Rock, not Classic Rock. Album cuts, deep and familiar were their game and listeners loved it. K-Earth will reach 50 amazing years in 2022, but not by its 250 song playlist, only by its iconic name for several generations. About as famous by name as the Pantry in downtown. A great place to eat, by the way.

Actually, KMET always was closer to Progressive Rock than AOR (Album Oriented Rock). KLOS was tighter, in the Superstars fashion but not part of Lee Abrams' group. And in its later years, KMET was on the decline and was losing revenue.

In the Fall 1986 book, KMET was 20th in 12+ with a 1.6 share, well behind KLOS (which was down to 15th but with a 2.3 share). KROQ had almost as much as the two combined with a 3.9 and 7th place scoreand KLSX, which already called itself "classic AOR" (being one of the first to do so) was 13th with a 3.1

I lived in LA for a quarter century (about 25 years too long) and worked there off and on since 1972 and I've never heard of "The Pantry". My wife, who lived in LA since before Ron Jacobs first had coffee at Nicodell's, has never heard of it either.

https://oldlarestaurants.com/nickodell/

KRTH today is not listened to due to its heritage. It is listened to because today's core 25-54 love it. Those age groups account for more than half the total audience. And, oh, half the audience is Hispanic and a quarter of the total audience is Spanish dominant... lots of people who by age, ethnicity and migration were not even in LA to know what the 70's to 90's KRTH was.

And the KRTH playlist is about 375 songs, not 250... and that is about 50 more songs than KOST, another perpetual top 5 station.
 
I lived in LA for a quarter century (about 25 years too long) and worked there off and on since 1972 and I've never heard of "The Pantry". My wife, who lived in LA since before Ron Jacobs first had coffee at Nicodell's, has never heard of it either.

You're kidding....they've been around since 1924. Supposedly they have never closed their doors since, open 24/7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Pantry_Cafe


KRTH today is not listened to due to its heritage. It is listened to because today's core 25-54 love it. Those age groups account for more than half the total audience. And, oh, half the audience is Hispanic and a quarter of the total audience is Spanish dominant... lots of people who by age, ethnicity and migration were not even in LA to know what the 70's to 90's KRTH was.

By your estimations, how many people that were in the demos during 1980's K-Earth, are living in L.A. today.
 
You're kidding....they've been around since 1924. Supposedly they have never closed their doors since, open 24/7

I messaged two other people who have lived in LA for many decades, and they all said, "what?"

By your estimations, how many people that were in the demos during 1980's K-Earth, are living in L.A. today.

Given migratory patterns, probably less than 20% of the 25-54's from the 80's are in LA today. The metro has nearly doubled in population, mostly from inbound migration. Many have left, particularly those who are retired who can no longer afford LA. And someone who was 54 in 1985 would now be about 90... so given the average life expectancy, a large portion of the 35-54's are no longer with us.

Most folks younger than 35 in the 80's would not have been in the KRTH audience then, so they would not care what the heritage was.
 
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