KLOS Sold - Now it's a Fact!

[CTListener]

I agree, and radio in the early days appealed to younger white kids by playing the harder R&B and blues songs, often late at night. That's what launched rock radio, in Memphis, Cleveland, and other places.

And just as those hot R&B and blues sides were new, exciting and somewhat dangerous-sounding to kids who'd been force-fed the vestiges of the big band/Tin Pan Alley era that their parents had grown up in, so did the kids of the '90s find rap and the whole hip-hop scene -- complete with real-life "beefs" between rappers, producers, even entire cities -- far more interesting and compelling than the turgid shoe-gaze rock, the ponderous heavy metal with its cookie-monster vocals, or the folky, whiny Lilith Fair sound. I mean, who could even imagine a real-life beef between, say, Green Day and Red Hot Chili Peppers, or between Sheryl Crow and Jewel? (The latter would have made for a great Celebrity Death Match, though!) They were no more likely than Shelly Fabares vs. Debbie Reynolds or Frankie Avalon vs. Fabian.

Bottom line: Market to teens music that will make them feel rebellious and that their parents won't comprehend them liking and you will have found the dominant pop genre for at least a full generation.

 

[TheBigA]

Bottom line: Market to teens music that will make them feel rebellious and that their parents won't comprehend them liking and you will have found the dominant pop genre for at least a full generation.

Which really gets to the core of why rock radio came to a sudden stop in the 90s.

The rock generation became middle aged.

 

[davideduardo]

Yup. No Hispanic presence in DTLA. lol

There is more than just a bridge dividing the glittering skyscrapers of DTLA and Placita Olvera. As songwriters say, "so near and yet so far".

 

[davideduardo]

I am missing the point here. You are unaware of what the Pantry is even though it is one of the most iconic and historical restaurants in LA near one of its biggest entertainment complexes (Staples Center/AEG complex). You couldn't get to jury duty at the courthouse on Bunker Hill because you were unable walk up the hill on foot (the assumption here is that a cab, Uber, or even the Anglel's' Flight must not have been available) which now is some sort of indictment of our justice system and this somehow leads to a hidden intelligence affecting talk radio (on a thread presumably about rock station KLOS). Sorry but you have now strayed well into Art Bell territory.

I was using an anecdote to suggest why DTLA is not a destination or even attractive to everyone. In my case, I'd only put up with the expensive parking or the rather hostile environment were I forced to... the purpose of the anecdote was to suggest that there are many who, for many reasons, don't frequent that area.

In the 90's, when my personal incident occurred, there were no Ubers, smartass. And Angels Flight, for someone unfamiliar with downtown, was not an option (and was frequently under repair for long periods of time, by the way). I should, of course, have mentioned that this was a few months after the Rodney King riots, and most of us were hesitant to go to unfamiliar areas.

In another anecdote, much more recent and even in this century, the closest I got to downtown was the bus station. We were at a remote in Compton and our PM drive host was approached by a woman who was "travelling" to be with family near Fresno. Her coyote had dumped her by a Sears saying, "you are close, now." We decided to all chip in and buy her a bus ticket, dropping her off at the station. The three of us were approached by panhandlers and made to feel quite uneasy.

In more general terms, visiting a stadium or arena is not an indication of familiarity with an area of town. Going to the Oracle Arena or the Oakland Coliseum does not mean you spend a lot of time wandering around exploring for restaurants in the center of Oakland.

And there is the radio implication of these societal and socioeconomic divides: stations have to know where their audience goes, what they like to do and what they do not like to do. One can get a lot of general data from the Nielsen qualitative data in TAPSCAN, but knowing the market is key. As I mentioned... and later confirmed with a number of staff members from eras ranging from the 70's to today.... nobody could recall doing a remote for a Spanish language station from the downtown area ever. Sure, some had been to events at the Staples, but it was park on premises or up or down the adjoining streets, get in and get out.

A couple of times we did health fairs and women's fairs (the long running KLVE "Feria de la Mujer") at the convention center, but again it was get-in and get-out. Same for listeners.

While this is a sidebar, it does show how radio has certain challenges, even in the Internet age, in regards to picking locations for promotions and "activations" (what we seem to call remotes these days) and even concerts. With the divisions deepening in American society in general, there are geographic distinctions that are important to programming that go beyond having the traffic reporter who is perhaps 500 miles away know how to pronounce local place names. Areas that may be viewed positively by one group may have the exact opposite viewpoint by another.

And to further emphasize these cultural distinctions, I brought up The Pantry on my private FB group and 9 out of 10 were unfamiliar with it and only one knew about it but had never been there.

Back to KLOS: if it hopes to increase audience and remain viable, it has to go beyond the tastes of non-Hispanic white men over 40. They need to include other groups in the research, starting with Hispanics and perhaps a sampling of later generation Asians and even Russian / Armenian / Eastern European heritage folks who like rock but may not be fans of KLOS due to other non-musical cultural barriers. It's amazing how poorly Mark & Brian used to index against Hispanics... and it was not the music.

By the way... anecdotal experience, whether personal or shared, is often the basis for significant programming epiphanies. I can't count the number of times that a casual remark in one-on-one research projects has developed into an entire strategy that has changed or flipped the philosophy of a radio station or morning show. One of the jobs of a researcher is to take raw data and figure out what is relevant, what can be replicated and what is a trend or a truth.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

There is more than just a bridge dividing the glittering skyscrapers of DTLA and Placita Olvera. As songwriters say, "so near and yet so far".

I used to work on the 50th floor of one of those high rises. I can tell you nothing was more of a priority to the big national firm that I worked for than extending all manner of helping hands and opportunities to those (of color of course) that lived in places such as Boyle Heights, Highland Park, Carson, etc. I happen to know all of our national competitors who also have fancy high rise digs had similar programs - in fact they all competed to be the firm that advanced the most such opportunities (good PR).

That "so near yet so far" you speak of may have been true once upon a time, but not any more. If you want to work in those buildings and are willing to work hard to get there (as I did), you can, regardless of color, background, or net worth. Nothing is as far as you imply. America is still a great place!

 

[davideduardo]

I agree, and radio in the early days appealed to younger white kids by playing the harder R&B and blues songs, often late at night. That's what launched rock radio, in Memphis, Cleveland, and other places.

Absolutely. As a pre-teen, I still remember secretly listening to Alan Freed in Cleveland, and Mad Daddy (Pete Myers) after he went to NY. Both played rockin' r&b and cut the path for full-on Top 40 stations like WERE and, later, WHK. And all my totally white friends at the time did the same.

And that lead me to occasionally listen to WJMO. And that became an actual paying job there when I was a young teen.

 

[davideduardo]

I've forgotten about Jury Duty in San Francisco Municipal Court not once, but twice. You have to call this recorded number or go online - for a week - to see if you are called to serve. I'm always chosen on Thursday, 2 days after I've forgotten all about it.

The first time, I thought they'd put out a bench warrant, so I called the jury duty office to mea culpa and apologize. The person who answered just laughed - said they didn't put out warrants. That didn't motivate me not to screw up the second time.

Apparently in the 1992-1993 period following the LA riots, they had a tough time getting jurors so they upped the enforcement effort, including penalties. The interesting thing is that, later, sitting in the jury pool room, I found many others had been threatened with with or issued warrants. Yet none of the talk stations (KFI, KABC) at the time seemed to have picked up on this interesting subject. It was apparent that the main reason for not appearing was fear, and maybe nobody wanted to touch that subject.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I was using an anecdote to suggest why DTLA is not a destination or even attractive to everyone. In my case, I'd only put up with the expensive parking or the rather hostile environment were I forced to... the purpose of the anecdote was to suggest that there are many who, for many reasons, don't frequent that area.

In the 90's, when my personal incident occurred, there were no Ubers, smartass.

David, on the rare times I have disagreed with you over the years, I have always done so civilly, as I would expect of you given your moderator role. My point may have been direct, but I still stand by it - people have ascended Bunker Hill to do business since the 1800s and there are numerous ways to do so even if you have a hard time physically climbing it; I am quite sure you could have done so as well had you put your mind to it. Calling me out with a pejorative is beneath your status a professional and a moderator.

 

[michael hagerty]

I was using an anecdote to suggest why DTLA is not a destination or even attractive to everyone. In my case, I'd only put up with the expensive parking or the rather hostile environment were I forced to... the purpose of the anecdote was to suggest that there are many who, for many reasons, don't frequent that area.

In the 90's, when my personal incident occurred, there were no Ubers, smartass. And Angels Flight, for someone unfamiliar with downtown, was not an option (and was frequently under repair for long periods of time, by the way). I should, of course, have mentioned that this was a few months after the Rodney King riots, and most of us were hesitant to go to unfamiliar areas.

In another anecdote, much more recent and even in this century, the closest I got to downtown was the bus station. We were at a remote in Compton and our PM drive host was approached by a woman who was "travelling" to be with family near Fresno. Her coyote had dumped her by a Sears saying, "you are close, now." We decided to all chip in and buy her a bus ticket, dropping her off at the station. The three of us were approached by panhandlers and made to feel quite uneasy.

In more general terms, visiting a stadium or arena is not an indication of familiarity with an area of town. Going to the Oracle Arena or the Oakland Coliseum does not mean you spend a lot of time wandering around exploring for restaurants in the center of Oakland.

And there is the radio implication of these societal and socioeconomic divides: stations have to know where their audience goes, what they like to do and what they do not like to do. One can get a lot of general data from the Nielsen qualitative data in TAPSCAN, but knowing the market is key. As I mentioned... and later confirmed with a number of staff members from eras ranging from the 70's to today.... nobody could recall doing a remote for a Spanish language station from the downtown area ever. Sure, some had been to events at the Staples, but it was park on premises or up or down the adjoining streets, get in and get out.

A couple of times we did health fairs and women's fairs (the long running KLVE "Feria de la Mujer") at the convention center, but again it was get-in and get-out. Same for listeners.

While this is a sidebar, it does show how radio has certain challenges, even in the Internet age, in regards to picking locations for promotions and "activations" (what we seem to call remotes these days) and even concerts. With the divisions deepening in American society in general, there are geographic distinctions that are important to programming that go beyond having the traffic reporter who is perhaps 500 miles away know how to pronounce local place names. Areas that may be viewed positively by one group may have the exact opposite viewpoint by another.

And to further emphasize these cultural distinctions, I brought up The Pantry on my private FB group and 9 out of 10 were unfamiliar with it and only one knew about it but had never been there.

Back to KLOS: if it hopes to increase audience and remain viable, it has to go beyond the tastes of non-Hispanic white men over 40. They need to include other groups in the research, starting with Hispanics and perhaps a sampling of later generation Asians and even Russian / Armenian / Eastern European heritage folks who like rock but may not be fans of KLOS due to other non-musical cultural barriers. It's amazing how poorly Mark & Brian used to index against Hispanics... and it was not the music.

By the way... anecdotal experience, whether personal or shared, is often the basis for significant programming epiphanies. I can't count the number of times that a casual remark in one-on-one research projects has developed into an entire strategy that has changed or flipped the philosophy of a radio station or morning show. One of the jobs of a researcher is to take raw data and figure out what is relevant, what can be replicated and what is a trend or a truth.

Having covered the Rodney King riots in '92 and having for all intents and purposes lived downtown (at the New Otani Hotel---now the DoubleTree) for the entire O.J. Simpson trial (late January through early October of '95), I can tell you downtown then and downtown now are two completely different cities. It's amazing what a quarter-century can do---especially considering what the previous quarter-century did.

My wife and I carve out some time to each L.A. trip (we're averaging three a year) to explore the architecture and history of DTLA. Last time, it was lunch at La Golondrina on Olvera Street----before that, lunch at Cole's (in the old Pacific Electric building since 1908), a ride on Angel's Flight, a peek at the Bradbury Building and the theater district (reviving in fits and starts), trying to comprehend the massive Grand Central Market and all the things available there.

As for the food, Eater has put together a pretty good list of L.A. classics: https://la.eater.com/maps/classic-los-angeles-restaurants-oldest

 

[oldies76]

And to further emphasize these cultural distinctions, I brought up The Pantry on my private FB group and 9 out of 10 were unfamiliar with it and only one knew about it but had never been there.

I find that hard to believe. An icon since 1924. I bet many don't even know where Dodger Stadium is or where which hill has the Hollywood sign on it. (sarcasm). People must not get around much or convey word of mouth.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I find that hard to believe. An icon since 1924. I bet many don't even know where Dodger Stadium is or where which hill has the Hollywood sign on it. (sarcasm). People must not get around much or convey word of mouth.

I once ordered the ham steak at the Pantry - and had something to eat for the rest of the week!

 

[davideduardo]

Having covered the Rodney King riots in '92 and having for all intents and purposes lived downtown (at the New Otani Hotel---now the DoubleTree) for the entire O.J. Simpson trial (late January through early October of '95), I can tell you downtown then and downtown now are two completely different cities. It's amazing what a quarter-century can do---especially considering what the previous quarter-century did.

My wife and I carve out some time to each L.A. trip (we're averaging three a year) to explore the architecture and history of DTLA. Last time, it was lunch at La Golondrina on Olvera Street----before that, lunch at Cole's (in the old Pacific Electric building since 1908), a ride on Angel's Flight, a peek at the Bradbury Building and the theater district (reviving in fits and starts), trying to comprehend the massive Grand Central Market and all the things available there.

As for the food, Eater has put together a pretty good list of L.A. classics: https://la.eater.com/maps/classic-los-angeles-restaurants-oldest

I was at KKHJ near Hollywood and Wilton when the riots broke out. I had the number of a security guy an called him just in case. We took a position on the roof of the two story building and we could see flames and smoke on the horizon towards downtown. The security guy, who was former special forces, had brought several rifles and handguns.

We realized as we heard and saw on TV the looting down at Vermont and Hollywood that looters would soon be coming our way. And they did come, trying to loot a liquor store a half block down, but being fired on by the Thai owner the moved to the Pier One across from us an upon finding nothing but wicker, were going to set it on fire.

We feared a fire would jump to our building, so rifle fire was used to burst windows and light fixtures, making noise that scared the looters away. Some shots to the radiators of their cars insured that the would not long remain mobile in the area.

I don’t think any of us were of a mind to go into those general areas for a log time. Some of the clients located in or near the areas cancelled or moved, too.

There are a lot of reasons, some based on long-past history, that we stay away from certain neighborhoods.

 

[davideduardo]

David, on the rare times I have disagreed with you over the years, I have always done so civilly, as I would expect of you given your moderator role. My point may have been direct, but I still stand by it - people have ascended Bunker Hill to do business since the 1800s and there are numerous ways to do so even if you have a hard time physically climbing it; I am quite sure you could have done so as well had you put your mind to it. Calling me out with a pejorative is beneath your status a professional and a moderator.

From my personal, non moderator, perspective your post was dismissive and I felt offended. Several friends actually wrote emails askin how that could be permitted.

On the other hand “smartass” is a term even my third grade teacher used to censure a joker in class. It just means “irritatingly smug” and reflects the tone of your post... that I was hopelessly unaware because I did not know about some old restaurant in DTLA. It’s hardly offensive... it is more “chiding” and joking... and nothing like the painfully offensive statements you made.

The fact is that LA is nearly 50% Hispanic. In my world, one with nearly no older non-Hispanic whites in it, I found that nearly nobody knew what that Pantry place is or was, and those that had heard of it had never been to it. And all the people I chatted with are long time members of the local SoCal media.

This points out one of the reasons why there is such a divide in society: what is relevant to some is of no interest to others. That goes for restaurants as much as it does for news content. In a metro area that has a greater population than Ecuador, there are all kinds of people who are unfamiliar with entire areas of the market, let alone knowing about a particular eatery.

This is why media often makes major fails thinking the audience shares all our experiences. I’ve always had a sign in the studio wherever I go that says “AQLI” for “¿a quien le importa?” or, roughly, Who the heck cares? This thread is an example of something that some people find important while perhaps many, many more know nothing about and could not care less about.

P.S. getting a cab for a 3 block trip ranks right up there with flying pigs as an improbability.

 

[davideduardo]

I find that hard to believe. An icon since 1924. I bet many don't even know where Dodger Stadium is or where which hill has the Hollywood sign on it. (sarcasm). People must not get around much or convey word of mouth.

In fact, you are right. A soccer fan from Mexico who lives in Santa Ana or a Vietnamese immigrant from Westchester (should be "Westminster") who have no interest in baseball likely has no clue as to where Chavez Ravine is. And many who have no reason to leave those areas likely know the sign from movies and may never have seen it in real life.

You are looking at life with a non-Hispanic white perspective. You have demonstrated why different reporters see different truths when reporting the news.

 

[radio128]

With all due respect, David, I believe you wanted to say Vietnamese immigrant from Westminster rather than Westchester.

 

[oldies76]

I once ordered the ham steak at the Pantry - and had something to eat for the rest of the week!

Classic menus and they still use a chalkboard to write the daily specials and major menu items on, last time I was there (2016). A great place!

 

[oldies76]

This points out one of the reasons why there is such a divide in society: what is relevant to some is of no interest to others.

Been that way since the dawn of man.......not just in recent years.

 

[davideduardo]

“U

I used to work on the 50th floor of one of those high rises. I can tell you nothing was more of a priority to the big national firm that I worked for than extending all manner of helping hands and opportunities to those (of color of course) that lived in places such as Boyle Heights, Highland Park, Carson, etc. I happen to know all of our national competitors who also have fancy high rise digs had similar programs - in fact they all competed to be the firm that advanced the most such opportunities (good PR).

That "so near yet so far" you speak of may have been true once upon a time, but not any more. If you want to work in those buildings and are willing to work hard to get there (as I did), you can, regardless of color, background, or net worth. Nothing is as far as you imply. America is still a great place!

Yes, everyone I know and everyone in my family knows what “tokenism” and “white priviledge” are. You described them well.

When you have a child who was chastised in school for speaking Spanish or told she needed “papers” or a green card to register in an LA school because she was Puerto Rican, get back to me.

As I have been saying throughout this thread, different perspectives, cultures an ethnicities see identical things differently. This is an increasingly important issue for all media as we are at the point where one perspective may even be seen as hostile by members of another, different group

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Your post was dismissive and offensive. Several friends actually wrote emails askin how that could be permitted.

On the other hand “smartass” is a term even my third grade teacher used to censure a joker in class. It’s hardly offensive and nothing like the painfully offensive statements you made.

The fact is that LA is nearly 50% Hispanic. In my world, one with nearly no older non-Hispanic whites in it, I found that nearly nobody knew what that Pantry place is or was, and those that had heard of it had never been to it. And all the people I chatted with are long time members of the local SoCal media.

This points out one of the reasons why there is such a divide in society: what is relevant to some is of no interest to others. That goes for restaurants as much as it does for news content. In a metro area that has a greater population than Ecuador, there are all kinds of people who are unfamiliar with entire areas of the market, let alone knowing about a particular eatery.

This is why media often makes major fails thinking the audience shares all our experiences. I’ve always had a sign in the studio wherever I go that says “AQLI” for “¿a quien le importa?” or, roughly, Who the heck cares? This thread is an example of something that some people find important while perhaps many, many more know nothing about and could not care less about.

P.S. getting a cab for a 3 block trip ranks right up there with flying pigs as an improbability.

Wow. So me saying there are alternative ways to get up a hill is "'dismissive and offensive", but you calling me a smartass is not? I guess this goes right along with these "other truths" you keep talking about.

Here is some truth: If the judge had a $1,000,000 check waiting for you at the top of the hill instead of jury duty service, you would have found a way to get there. As it is, you decided it wasn't worth your bother and it was a justifiable reason to shuck you citizen's duty. I have a case going on right now in that courthouse and I am depending on the faithful service of good people to do their jury duty to provide me fair verdict from my peers, just as I have had to do for others several times over the years. When you decided to use a lame excuse to not show up, you let your fellow citizens down and the judge was correct to issue that warrant. And yes, people take three-block cab rides all the time in congested cities. Back then the fare probably would have been less than five dollars. You are a very successful business man, you could have easily afforded it.

 

[oldies76]

And yes, people take three-block cab rides all the time in congested cities. Back then the fare probably would have been less than five dollars. You are a very successful business man, you could have easily afforded it.

NYC, a perfect example. All you see are yellows on those major avenues.