KLSD Delisted

[davideduardo]

David: Reality is nobody outside of the Hispanic market knows or cares about KLNV.
Jeff & Jer & DSC are the players and that's that. We respect their ratings but it's
apples and oranges, and you know that.

You can bet that when KLNV and similarly rated KLQV get buys that other stations in the market don't get due to lower ratings, those stations care a lot.

There are 100 shares in every market. When, in morning drive, in March, one station, KLNV, takes over 8 of them, you can also bet lots of people at other stations are watching and caring.

It's definitely not apples and oranges. All stations compete for the roughly $200 million in market billing, and when two Spanish stations take just under 10% of the billing, they are major factors. And when the total of the Spanish stations take about 17% of market billing, you know people are noticing them.

 

[TVC1500]

David: You need to know your place in the radio food chain. Most people
will never listen to any Hispanic radio in their lifetime. You can't convert
mainstream listeners to those stations, so why can't you be fat & happy
as is. As we all know if several more Hispanic stations popped up targeting
similiar lifegroups your stations would suffer erosion.

 

[SDRadio]

David: You need to know your place in the radio food chain. Most people
will never listen to any Hispanic radio in their lifetime.

David's record and postings are gold (not wanting to start a verbal dart war with you).

With the population base changing from Anglo to Hispanic, the future is very bright for radio and television growth that targets the Latino population. Some believe the Hispanic population do not have a lot of money to spend, but it is still money. They buy cars, go to school, grocery store shopping, and even go to movies. Imagine the thought of them just being ordinary people that happen to speak Espanol! (Or two languages in some cases!) An ad is an ad no matter what the audience is -- and the language.

 

[TVC1500]

Chris, I'm sure David is more than capable of answering posts directed to him.


You & David are missing the point. No matter what you do the mainstream audience coalition
of Blacks,Anglos, Asians, and others will never utilize a Spanish- language station. Never-ever.
No matter what you or David attempts to do. It will also never dominate the content of
Radio-Info no matter how hard David attempts to shoe-horn it in. It is apples and oranges.

 

[SDRadio]

Chris, I'm sure David is more than capable of answering posts directed to him.

I agree with that, I was not trying to answer for David.

You & David are missing the point. No matter what you do the mainstream audience coalition
of Blacks,Anglos, Asians, and others will never utilize a Spanish- language station. Never-ever.
No matter what you or David attempts to do. It will also never dominate the content of
Radio-Info no matter how hard David attempts to shoe-horn it in. It is apples and oranges.

Is this true closer to the French speaking area of Canada? What about Miami and their population? My point is that the Spanish-language population in Sandy Eggo is growing; and growing as it is, the Hispanic population will have a larger ad base. I also agree that most Spanish language radio listeners (and internet users), will never venture to web sites like this.

Thank you for your time.

 

[davideduardo]

David: You need to know your place in the radio food chain.

Yes, during the last 10 years or so, "my" place in LA has usually been #1 and #2 in 25-54. I could name many other markets, but the point is that many, many markets in the Southwest are now 30% to even 90% Hispanic. LA, for example, is 55% Hispanic in 18-34 or, in case you did not see the obvious, a majority.

Most people
will never listen to any Hispanic radio in their lifetime.

Most people will not listen to an oldies station in their lifetime. Or a classic rock station. Or a country station. Or an urban station. It's not just language... it's musical taste.

You can't convert
mainstream listeners to those stations, so why can't you be fat & happy
as is.

We are. The only growth sector in radio is Hispanic.

As we all know if several more Hispanic stations popped up targeting
similiar lifegroups your stations would suffer erosion.

No station is immune to competition. There are only 100 shares in any market.

 

[davideduardo]

You & David are missing the point. No matter what you do the mainstream audience coalition
of Blacks,Anglos, Asians, and others will never utilize a Spanish- language station. Never-ever.
No matter what you or David attempts to do. It will also never dominate the content of
Radio-Info no matter how hard David attempts to shoe-horn it in. It is apples and oranges.

You still don't get the fact that there are 100 shares in every market. Every share taken by a Spanish language station is a share that the general market stations do not get. Every station swims in the same pool.

 

[TVC1500]

David you're the only person that answers and follows up your own posts.
We know radio is a zero- sum game. There are only 100 shares available.

That doesn't change the fact that your stations mean nothing to most
people that sample radio. They will never in their lifetime sample your
stations. If the U.S. ever enforces the current immigration laws on the
book you will see metro areas actually lose population, especially in the
Southwest.

Also, since you love to tout the Los Angeles market, when was the last
time any Spanish language station took the revenue crown in L.A.?

David if you didn't try to so hard, be so needy to impress you would gain
respect here. I view you as an oddity. Remember the old saying about
he who complains too much?

 

[davideduardo]

That doesn't change the fact that your stations mean nothing to most
people that sample radio.

You completely missed my point that several of the Spanish language formats have more audience in lots of Soutwestern cities than major formats like AC or Country or Rock or Oldies or Urban.

To the 90% of folks in San Diego who never listen to a country station, country stations mean nothing. I could go on with similar statistics for other format, but I think you can get the point: specific formats generally reach very thin slices of people in today's radio markets.

On the other hand, the Regional Mexican format, one of a number of Spanish formats that are rated in the market, reaches nearly 15% of the total San Diego market (unduplicated six to midnight cume).

They will never in their lifetime sample your
stations. If the U.S. ever enforces the current immigration laws on the
book you will see metro areas actually lose population, especially in the
Southwest.

Since we are trying to avert a recession, not cause a depression, there will be no wholesale deportations. In any case, organic growth (that is, the normal growth due to births being greater than deaths) and the youth of the 80% of Hispanics who are legally in the US, there will be no decrease in Hispanic population, which will be 20% of the US in the next 7 years.

Also, since you love to tout the Los Angeles market, when was the last
time any Spanish language station took the revenue crown in L.A.?

KLVE is up to over $40 million, and among the top 5. It's also the 18th highest billing station in the entire US. While the non-Hispanic stations are off significantly in billings, Spanish langauge ones are up significantly... same applies to SD's leading Spanish stations.

David if you didn't try to so hard, be so needy to impress you would gain
respect here. I view you as an oddity. Remember the old saying about
he who complains too much?

I'm not complaining... just clearing up misconceptions such as the one you are attempting to perpetuate where Hispanics are at the margin of US society.

 

[rickityone]

I wish the personal attacks on David Eduardo would cease.

Whenever the guy replies to somebodies post with a well thought and rational response, and usually pretty interesting, some one seems to always see fit to attack the guy.

I'm in a radio world learning mode - I've learned a lot from what Mr. Eduardo has had to say over the years. I am glad for his patient participation.

If you aren't interested, skip the comment and leave the attacks someplace else.

rickity

 

[TVC1500]

I wish the personal attacks on David Eduardo would cease.

Whenever the guy replies to somebodies post with a well thought and rational response, and usually pretty interesting, some one seems to always see fit to attack the guy.

I'm in a radio world learning mode - I've learned a lot from what Mr. Eduardo has had to say over the years. I am glad for his patient participation.

If you aren't interested, skip the comment and leave the attacks someplace else.

rickity

Nothing personal intended. We are having a debate, and who are you? Excuse me to pull rank
but instead of wasting time and space, it might be better to actually add some content to the
discussion. Now you're directing what we should and shouldn't post. I'm being polite at this
point, but that could change. Once you've done something like perhaps your first big shift you
can report back to us. I enjoy playing devils advocate with David, because he is highly intelligent.
Now, Rickity, is that okay with you?

 

[lexusdevotee]

Why doesn't KLSD reinstate their progressive talk format, at least it'll get them above a 1.0 in the Arbitron ratings.

 

[136kgb]

David when you say that the latino community does not listen to oldies you are absolutely WRONG! As Magic 92.5 is basically a hot oldies station, and the primary audience is Latino/Latina, the secondary is Black, and the third is white. The Sunday night oldies show with Xavier the X man is the top show on XHRM. And XHRM the 60/70/80's station was number 2 25-54 and afternoons it was number 2 just behind KyXy.



So to say that the Mexican people don't listen to oldies wake up and smell the coffee. Magic rules with all races ! I feel sorry for the Walrus, because they are not going to catch up with the FCB blowtorch Magic 92.5

 

[davideduardo]

David when you say that the latino community does not listen to oldies you are absolutely WRONG! As Magic 92.5 is basically a hot oldies station, and the primary audience is Latino/Latina, the secondary is Black, and the third is white.

An "Oldies" station by the Arbitron definition and by that of nearly anyone in the business is songs of the 60's, with, perhaps, some late 50's or early 70's. XHRM is not an oldies station by that definition, since it's core audience is 35-44, with a full 25% below that age range. That's a rhthmic station with old school or a rhythmic AC, not an oldies format.

In fact, Mediabase calls the format Rhythmic AC, not oldies. And they show 30 "currents and recuerrents." Oldies stations do not have currents and recurrents. AC's do.

The primary XHRM audience is Non-Hispanic white, with 41% of the cume. Next is Hispanic with about 39% and then Black with 20% of the cume. You did not get one of these right, either.

So to say that the Mexican people don't listen to oldies wake up and smell the coffee.

60's oldies and 70's classic hits get some Hispanic listening; much depends on whether a market has a multigenerational population. In most cases, such stations underindex among Hispanics.

Arbitron does not show "Mexican" listening... it shows Hispanic listening, anyway.

 

[136kgb]

XHRM plays 60's 70's and 80's primarily. And not to say that you are way too old David, but you are the 80's are now oldies! Face it technically KGB-FM, and Magic both are nothing but rebranded oldies stations.

 

[davideduardo]

XHRM plays 60's 70's and 80's primarily. And not to say that you are way too old David, but you are the 80's are now oldies! Face it technically KGB-FM, and Magic both are nothing but rebranded oldies stations.

Even MediaBase, which ought to know, calls XHRM rhythmic AC... oldies stations do not play currents and recurrents. And the industry (Arbitron, trades, monitoring services, etc.) calls stations that base their playlist on 60's oldies "oldies" and those playing 70's core "classic hits" and those that play 70's, 80's and 90's as "adult hits."

XHRM is a rhythmic AC. Just as some more non-Hispanic white tartgeted ACs are gold based AC (but still with currents) and others are Hot AC's.

KGB, by the way, is not oldies, either. It is classic rock, a totally separate format.

I'd suggest you check the fairly standardized names stations give their formats... the key would be how XHRM registers each book with Arbitron...

Here is XHRM's SIP from Arbitron:

Spring 2008 Station Information Profile (SIP) on File with Arbitron

Call Letter: XHRM-FM
Frequency: 92.5
Station Name: MAGIC 92 OLD SCHOOL
Format: Rhythmic AC

Even the station itself knows it is rhythmic AC. You can't teach a bat to swim any more than you can call XHRM an oldies station.

 

[TVC1500]

From a strategic view-point 136-KGB is correct. KMGV Fresno is rebranded oldies
targeting 2nd & 3rd generation Hispanics. But it's an Oldies station and very
successful. I would rather eat dirt than hear Brenda Hollaway and Brenton Wood,
but to this life group it's their Led Zep and Who. David-industry labels don't mean
much and you know that for a fact.

 

[davideduardo]

From a strategic view-point 136-KGB is correct. KMGV Fresno is rebranded oldies
targeting 2nd & 3rd generation Hispanics. But it's an Oldies station and very
successful.

A station that plays a few songs that are post-2000 and 35% of whose library is post-1980 while soimewhat less is from the 60's is not an oldies station by the definitions we need in order to make our products identifiable to advertisers. It's really a classic hits staiton with the median age of songs around 1977. The fact that the market is nearly 50% Hispanic and that there is a significant second and third generation community (lacking in many markets) sort of makes it natural for a classic hits station to focus on Hispanics as they are the largest single group in the community.

It is a successful station, but not for the reasons you think. It is, quite simply, a station that looked at its local market and developed a format that is, in age and content, focused on the large Hispanic population. The center of its audience is in the age range of 42 to 52, which reflects the age of the later-generation Hisapnic, but is not the "oldies" demo.

I would rather eat dirt than hear Brenda Hollaway and Brenton Wood,

Interestingly, this is the same music pop stations in Latin America played at the time... and there were lots of stations in Mexico that played a mix of Spanish and English pop going back to the early 60's (I interned in one in '63). You are right in pointing out the artist differences... although many of these listeners would prefer the Roberto Jordan Spanish versions of Brenton Wood songs. Latin America is where CCR sold many more records than The Beatles, and where Bobby Vinton and Paul Anka had teen anthems while Neil Sedaka recorded his hits in Spanish, too.

This sort of gives a flavor to the kind of memory tunes, irrespective of what the format is called, that Hispanics will like in the Southwest.

but to this life group it's their Led Zep and Who.

Good example, since these two artists couldn't get arrested in Latin America.

David-industry labels don't mean
much and you know that for a fact.

I used to think that until I did out of market selling. It became quite obvious that some kind of standardization is necessary to be able to relate to the buyer... and to allow the buyer and the agency in general to not ask a station to do a horribly out of format promotion, for example.

There are certain standard labels that have been established by Arbitron in accordance with general industry definitions and which appear in Maximiser reports and are toggled in nearly every PPM Analysis Tool and Weeklies report for the convenience of time buyers who are interested in knowing the specifics of each station. We all know some buys have "no controversy" dictates. While no-ethnic has been an evil "secret" there are certainly accounts that do require knowing the ethnicity of an audience because the advertiser's wares may have specific appeal or lack of same.

 

[Ben Shaton]

What label correctly fits JACK-FM (Arbitron says Adult Hits), and which groups is that station targeting?

 

[davideduardo]

What label correctly fits JACK-FM (Arbitron says Adult Hits), and which groups is that station targeting?

Arbitron created "adult hits" at the request of the various Jacks and clones several years ago. The target varies by market and station, but it is pretty broad 25-44 or 35-54. As someone said, a mile wide and an inch deep.