I think Little 1 and David Eduardo are looking at this from a numbers perspective, which is good. But common sense tells me that no matter how old you are or what the trends say, there are exceptions to EVERYTHING. I truly believe that folks over 45 can be marketed to. If they can't, then why are KHVN, KGGR and KKDA still on the air. They still cater some of their programming to those 45+ black adults.
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It's not just laziness but, the fact that radio has never drawn much of the cream of the crop of intelligence or creativity to the industry. The intelligent, creative media people end up in film or new forms of media. The people on here that say you can't sell
to baby boomers or make money playing 50s and 60s music are just vomiting the same consultants rhetoric that has been brain
washed into their tiny heads. If you don't believe the validity of this, does anything on radio compel you to listen to it like radio
did decades ago?
Yes, I'm looking at it from a numbers perspective. And I'm not doing it from my personal taste or opinion...(If I was I'd be demanding more music stations that cater to me and the rest of the boomers)salemjedi54 said:
What I am saying is they CAN be marketed to. Your examples show that they can. But what I'm saying is that major markets stations, with huge sticks are going to try to maximize their revenue. And catering to a demographic that is more set in their buying ways, less attractive to advertisers, etc, is NOT going to maximize the revenue.
The real money in this industry is 25-54. WBAP isn't simulcasting on 96.7 to boost their 55+ (where they dominate). It's to increase their 25-54's. WBAP makes a lot of money. A hell of a lot of money. But they can make more if they draw in more 25-54's, you know, the people that won't listen to AM.
If I had some money laying around, I'd bet that some station flips to some form of oldies/soft ac, etc to take Platinum's place. But it won't be a corporate deal, it'll be a fringe station that dcides that yes, they can cater to 45+ and make money. It can be done. I've seen ithappen. But the 'suits' these days don't want to see a station (like Platinum) just make a little money(which they did). They want them making a LOT of money....
I
in3media_be1
Guest
Some posts from this thread have been moved to Take It Outside
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=165588.msg1418972#msg1418972
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=165588.msg1418972#msg1418972
C
cspotrun
Guest
and i URGEyou to read them.Board Editor 1 said:
RADIO TRUTH said:
I just don't get something: the decision not to advertise to 55+ and, particularly, 65+, has nothing to do with radio or the people who work in it. It is strictly an advertiser decision. Commercial radio is an advertising "medium" and that term means "intermediary." As such, operators of radio stations have no alternative but to provide audiences that advertisers want to reach, or, otherwise, fail.
The people who say this are the advertisers, who do not look for 55+ because all their research shows that the return on investment when they do this is not good.
Again, this is not a radio decision. It is a marketing decision by corporations who have amply, constantly and incessantly studied their consumers.
Again, 50's and 60's pop hits appeal to a demo that has essentially no advertiser interest. Further, most 55+ don't even want to hear that music, either because they never liked it or because they are tired of it or outgrew it.
Again, this has nothing to do with radio... it's an advertiser issue.
WhoDat! said:
Whatever.
LibertyNT said:
Nearly everyone I know.
Although I wish it weren't true, I have to accept that:
1.) Agencies aren't buying 55+
2.) Musical tastes are imprinted during the teen years
3.) Fans of 50's and 60's pop are aging out of the viable demos.
That said, I DO believe it could be possible to program a variety of music, regardless of the genre or date of release. I'd like to say I know how, but no one has (or will) give someone the chance to try without a past track record. I'd like to have the chance, but the years it would take to develop an audience will not be available to a company making debt service on a 20 to 50 million dollar stick.
My ideal station would be something like KKXT-FM, which I find mostly un-listenable.
The challenge, Mr. Oldies Programmer, comes from the changes in popular music from the '60s to the '70s. It fragmented. Then the fragments fragmented some more. Kurt Johnson must have a sublime skill, to be able to find tunes that appeal to enough people to keep Jack a going concern. Now KLUV will have to do the same. And I should buy an i-pod, load it with my own music, and go on my merry way.
1.) Agencies aren't buying 55+
2.) Musical tastes are imprinted during the teen years
3.) Fans of 50's and 60's pop are aging out of the viable demos.
That said, I DO believe it could be possible to program a variety of music, regardless of the genre or date of release. I'd like to say I know how, but no one has (or will) give someone the chance to try without a past track record. I'd like to have the chance, but the years it would take to develop an audience will not be available to a company making debt service on a 20 to 50 million dollar stick.
My ideal station would be something like KKXT-FM, which I find mostly un-listenable.
The challenge, Mr. Oldies Programmer, comes from the changes in popular music from the '60s to the '70s. It fragmented. Then the fragments fragmented some more. Kurt Johnson must have a sublime skill, to be able to find tunes that appeal to enough people to keep Jack a going concern. Now KLUV will have to do the same. And I should buy an i-pod, load it with my own music, and go on my merry way.
I agree Liberty. My ideal station is a mix simular to what KLUV has now(but with more 60s) only a big enough variety to be able to listen for hours daily without the burnout of repetition. Looking forward to listening to see what is being played now rather than "not that song again" They would have to multiply their playlist by at least five times to make me happy. There are plenty of great songs to be played.
LibertyNT said:
Nah. The ones that were no longer getting play are even less worth hearing.
C
cspotrun
Guest
hey, how many of you think our boy eduardo, is "Actually" the Board editor?? (have you ever seen the two of them together????) well, it seems that whenever he loses an argument, those people end up on "TIO", and he keeps on posting...DavidEduardo said:
it doesn't really matter he amuses me.
surfdude said:
Why would a 72 year old listen to jocks that present their show like they did 40 years ago on top 40 radio. So many oldies stations either have 27 years olds that can't put two sentences together and sound like kiddos. How on earth is a 72 year supposedd to relate. Many of the older oldies jocks sound like RADIO PEOPLE. IE: Immature, Silly and Contrived.
I just heard this new oldies format from John Rook touting they have Larry Lujack. Here is a guy that's 70 years old acting like a 20 year old. Loud, obnoxious, and juvenile. Maybe that's why AC based Oldies do so much better in Psychographics.
Most of the 70+ people I know watch TV. Even talk radio has become High Strung, High Energy and Disrespectful. Something talk radio was NOT in the 60s/70s and part of the 80s.
To really see the "Trash" that listens to Radio today all one has to do is go to some chezzey ass remote with pimply face promotion interns and some jock dressed like he came from the beach driving his 25 year old jalopy giving away refridgerator magnets.
Respond to Grant Chester: I disagree with you. It would NOT take years to build a following for a station that plays that music. It would take years to get anyone to invest any substantial revenue on it.[/i]
KLUV HD-2 (I know...very few people have HD radios) has no ratings. But on line, it streams as much as 9 million minutes a week, playing 1955-1964 (with a few exceptions). That sounds like a following to me. But if no one will buy it, it's not going to make it on a viable stick.
To quote a wise man in this industry (about advertisers): If they're not comin', you can't stop them.
KLUV HD-2 (I know...very few people have HD radios) has no ratings. But on line, it streams as much as 9 million minutes a week, playing 1955-1964 (with a few exceptions). That sounds like a following to me. But if no one will buy it, it's not going to make it on a viable stick.
To quote a wise man in this industry (about advertisers): If they're not comin', you can't stop them.
Hey Guys:
Were there any oldies stations on FM prior to KLUV in 1985? I found some info but I want to make sure it is right.
Thanks
T.J.
Were there any oldies stations on FM prior to KLUV in 1985? I found some info but I want to make sure it is right.
Thanks
T.J.
When we went Oldies in 1985, KLUV had no real competition in the field.
KAAM 1310 was oldies but quickly faded when the music became available on FM.
K-Oldie 570 AM - same story.
Realize too, that KLUV had been an AC station and when we went Oldies, it really was more of an "AC Oldies" station for a good while...It evolved somewhat. We basically just took out all the current stuff back to about the mid 70's and played what Oldies were left.
We did buy the old reel to reel TM library and I recall many nights sitting up there at the old Merchants Bank penthouse studio on Ross and Henderson (nice neighborhood) carting up oldies off those reels. This was before mint, stereo copies of Oldies was readily available.
Months into it, we started adding more and more traditional Oldies songs.
We also programmed the station as an AC...not a lot of "hip and jive" but more of a real people effort with promotions and good relateable information.
It was a fun place to work. I came over from KVIL so it was, at the time, quite a change...I did afternoons and loved it. I remember seeing Chapman somewhere one time and he pointed to me and said "we're targetting you Steve"! I laughed at the thought of little ol' KLUV being TARGETTED by the monster that was K V I L !
I remember one of our books we hit #2, 25-54 in PM Drive, beaten only by KVIL and Bill Gardner. It wasn't long after that KVIL started playing "classic oldie" features hourly in an effort to "target" us.
KAAM 1310 was oldies but quickly faded when the music became available on FM.
K-Oldie 570 AM - same story.
Realize too, that KLUV had been an AC station and when we went Oldies, it really was more of an "AC Oldies" station for a good while...It evolved somewhat. We basically just took out all the current stuff back to about the mid 70's and played what Oldies were left.
We did buy the old reel to reel TM library and I recall many nights sitting up there at the old Merchants Bank penthouse studio on Ross and Henderson (nice neighborhood) carting up oldies off those reels. This was before mint, stereo copies of Oldies was readily available.
Months into it, we started adding more and more traditional Oldies songs.
We also programmed the station as an AC...not a lot of "hip and jive" but more of a real people effort with promotions and good relateable information.
It was a fun place to work. I came over from KVIL so it was, at the time, quite a change...I did afternoons and loved it. I remember seeing Chapman somewhere one time and he pointed to me and said "we're targetting you Steve"! I laughed at the thought of little ol' KLUV being TARGETTED by the monster that was K V I L !
I remember one of our books we hit #2, 25-54 in PM Drive, beaten only by KVIL and Bill Gardner. It wasn't long after that KVIL started playing "classic oldie" features hourly in an effort to "target" us.
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