KMCQ-FM

[mightymoose]

Okay folks what do we know about KMCQ moving in from The Dalles, OR?? Running a radio station in the Seattle market ain't like The Dalles and so far they sound pretty small market, way under produced. Hard to imagine they're gonna come bustin' on with major market air talent in this day and time.

Oh, and the music mix. Can anyone say FOCUS? Just because you say your playing the greatest hits of the 60's & 70's doesn't mean you play EVERY ONE OF 'EM!

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Simply a placeholder. The current programming and processing mean nothing in the big picture. Sam and a couple others on this board gave some pretty plausible legal reasons as to why they are currently wiggling the needles from Enumclaw. Apparently the legal requirement is that you simply wiggle them-you don't have to wiggle them a lot, and you don't need to wiggle them with any kind of special programming. They just have to wiggle long enough and hard enough to satisfy some basic gov'mint requirements. "Good enough for government work" is the expression that comes to mind.

The $20 million question is whether they end up wiggling from Enumscratch at 25k or from Cougar Mt. at 6k. One way or the other, someone will be buying the signal and doing whatever makes sales sense. Obviously it's worth more from Cougar.

Which brings a question== someone on this board I bet has a pretty clear guess as to the answer. What is the purchase price in the current market for the current signal, and what would it be worth at Cougar? I have no clue on that end. Dan? Kelly? Bill W.? AQH? Mamma? BW? Anybody?

Some on the board have said the Cougar proposal is dead. Well, they said that about Nixon in 1960...

 

[BurntOutRadio]

After listening to KMCQ only in my car over several days I have to say the repeat factor is very high.

 

[kentuckymedia]

Bruce has been in town a few times, maybe Bonneville is on its way to save the day!

 

[WDAE-FM101]

If KMCQ moved to Cougar, they would need to broadcast at 1,600 watts at the 387 mtr HAAT
With a protected contour of 39km, their city-grade signal would cover Covington and extend from Edmonds to Federal Way.

Question: Is Cougar Mountain too close to KAFE's signal -- e.g., what is the minimum distance between a class "C" and "C3" one adjacent frequency away?

Thanks!

Tom S

 

[w9wi]

Question: Is Cougar Mountain too close to KAFE's signal -- e.g., what is the minimum distance between a class "C" and "C3" one adjacent frequency away?

Being in Nashville I'm not 100% certain I'm choosing the right coordinates for Cougar Mountain - it's where KJR 95.7, KPLZ 101.5, and KUBE 93.3 are?

In which case the answer is "Yes", it is too close to KAFE. The distance between the KJR 95.7 and KAFE 104.3 towers is 137.6km/85.5mi.. The minimum separation between a C3 station and a C one channel away is 176km (109 miles). The C3 station may use "contour protection" (specifying reduced power in the direction of the Class C station, either by simply reducing power or by using a directional antenna) but that only buys them 11 more kilometers - 6 miles - not nearly enough.

It's my understanding 104.5 was trying to address that by getting KAFE to change frequency to 104.1. For two channels separation the minimum distance is 96km which Cougar Mountain would easily meet. Problem is, Canada has authorized a new Class C station (CHHR-FM) in Vancouver on 104.1.

(of course, CHHR is far too close -- only 75km/47mi. -- to KAFE for 2nd-adjacent C to C -- except that any coverage a U.S. station has in Canada is not protected from interference. As long as CHHR doesn't interfere with KAFE in the U.S. 75km is far enough.)

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

You're correct that those three are still on Cougar...and you VERY effectively encapsulated the entire frequency issue in one paragraph where it has taken us about five threads and 15 gazillion responses to articulate the same thing! You're very welcome to attend our therapy group as we're all VERY concerned when an investment banker who "does radio" ends up taking it in the shorts on a spec move-in deal. We meet Tuesdays, 4pm at Ballard Denny's. Whoops....they just leveled that too.

 

[mightymoose]

LOL! I like the idea of group therapy and since Denny's in Ballard is now a memory we can meet at Senor Moose Cafe on Leary Way.

 

[DangerousDan]

Hush! The more people who get turned onto Senor Moose, the longer I'll have to wait for a table and that hand-hacked guac

 

[SeattleObserver]

Hush! The more people who get turned onto Senor Moose, the longer I'll have to wait for a table and that hand-hacked guac

Even on my Monday visit I had to wait for a table. But I must say, it is INCREDIBLE. Especially the esquites! I really should wander over on Friday or Saturday this weekend.

 

[mightymoose]

Good god almighty How many of you know about Senor Moose? And further more how'd this turn into a discussion board about dining out?? I'll see you there Friday morning @ 8:30. BYOM (bring your own Margarita).

 

[ssndradio]

The more I read this, the more I wonder if this is all worth it for the (eventual) sale that will happen... I mean... 1600 watts on Cougar? Is that REALLY going to be so much better than 25k in Enumclaw?

I like to use KNHC as an example... they used to be 80-some thousand watts, then moved up to Cougar Mtn. and dropped the power to 8900 watts--theoretically it is supposed to be comparable since it is a C1, however it axed coverage in the south end (I used to be able to get it clearly all the way past Centralia)--in Auburn it can even be hard to get on small radios.

So now we're talking about a class C3 on Cougar--I can't imagine getting this very well south of Tacoma, or north of Seattle.

It just seems like such a waste--basically I see going to Cougar knocking out the south end to add the north end--but reduce city coverage overall.

Maybe I am completely off the mark.

 

[WDAE-FM101]

KNHC is a C-2 operating with an equivalent of 50kw @ 150 meters
KMCQ is a C-3 operating with an equivalent of 25kw @100 meters

You are correct about KMCQ on Cougar as a C-3 the city-grade signal would extend from Federal Way to Edmonds with a 1.6kw signal. The advantage is that there would be a better signal in Seattle/Bellevue than if they are operating from Enumclaw. There is too much multipath from the terrain.

The real push for KMCQ was to have KAFE move to 104.1 so that they could upgrade to a C-2 having a contour like KNHC

 

[e-dawg]

I think they should work out with CTRC moving 104.1 CHRR Vancouer to 104.3 and move 104.3 KAFE to 104.1.

Canada allows 3rd ajacent channels while US don't so technically 104.1 can move to 104.3 without any interference with 104.9 CKCL-FM2.

 

[IndigoCoyote]

An excellent technical solution, but is there any reason for our friends to the north to actually do this? Just curious, what might entice them....

 

[SeattleObserver]

An excellent technical solution, but is there any reason for our friends to the north to actually do this? Just curious, what might entice them....

I can't see a good reason, since Canadian radio broadcasters are still raking in record $$ and :-o here's a surprise, creating compelling content that keeps the ears tuned in. (although apparently less so than recently, especially youth - Statistics Canada research)

Also, I find it annoying this previous poster posted his reply in THREE THREADS.

 

[semoochie]

KNHC is a C1 albeit a fairly low powered one with 8.5kw @ 372 meters HAAT. It used to be a C2 with 30kw @ 92 meters HAAT. About 30 years ago, they ran 1500 watts @ 322 feet or just under 100 meters HAAT. It appears that they now use the previous facility for auxiliary use but drop down to 15kw. The difference in most of the populated area must be dramatic, in favor of the newer signal.

 

[Steenman]

Thank you for a great technical discussion, bottom line it sounds like there are still options for the station to make the move to Cougar, albeit a bit more complicated.

One thing I can tell you is that absolutely no one from the station has contacted my agency and trust me, if this was anything they planned to stay with, some sales rep would have found me and called. Not getting called tells me this is placeholder. I'll see if the phone rings after I post this!

 

[w9wi]

I think they should work out with CTRC moving 104.1 CHRR Vancouer to 104.3 and move 104.3 KAFE to 104.1.

Canada allows 3rd ajacent channels while US don't so technically 104.1 can move to 104.3 without any interference with 104.9 CKCL-FM2.

Indeed, CHRR on 104.1 is already short-spaced (in terms of frequency) to CHQM-FM 103.5. Moving to 104.3 would replace one short-spacing with another one.

However, CHRR on 104.3 would be 10.6MHz away from another Vancouver station, CJJR 93.7. (i.e., 104.3-10.6=93.7) The "intermediate frequency" amplifiers in most FM radios operate at 10.7MHz. Potentially, two stations 10.6 or 10.8MHz apart could mix to generate a signal that would "ride in" on the wiring of many FM radios. The result would be that one would hear a mix of CJJR and CHRR **all across the dial**, regardless of where one was tuned.

For that reason, the FCC requires stations 10.6 or 10.8MHz apart to be separated by a minimum distance. CHRR's authorised site is the same as CJJR's, so this minimum separation would not be met. But it is Canada, could be that there is no IF separation rule north of the border?

 

[FMSteve]

Yeah, because in Canada they have different radios than down here in the US. (Sorry, I couldn't help but offer up a little sarcasm).

Thanks for bringing up the I.F. problem (harmonics), I forgot about that. Down here, for a Class C to Class C, the I.F. separation is 48 km (30m) between xmit sites, according to CFR 47 73.207 table A.

Doesn't seem promising, does it.