KMCQ-FM

[w9wi]

Yeah, because in Canada they have different radios than down here in the US. (Sorry, I couldn't help but offer up a little sarcasm).

Heck, we have magic radios here in the U.S. which can reject interference from a station 400KHz away if it's carrying an Idaho station via satellite, but can't reject it if the station pots down the satellite & pots up a locally-produced program... but that's a completely different subject...

Thanks for bringing up the I.F. problem (harmonics), I forgot about that. Down here, for a Class C to Class C, the I.F. separation is 48 km (30m) between xmit sites, according to CFR 47 73.207 table A.

To nit-pick, harmonics are something else. A "harmonic" is a spurious signal, usually generated at the transmitter, on a multiple of the station's assigned frequency. KMCQ's 2nd harmonic would be 104.5*2 = 209MHz. (which happens to fall inside TV channel 12) The 3rd harmonic would be 104.5*3 = 313.5MHz, etc., etc...

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

We've talked a lot about KMCQ's tower & ownership...where is their broadcast operation? Are they running in a venue larger than Covington?

 

[Bongwater]

Simply a placeholder. The current programming and processing mean nothing in the big picture. Sam and a couple others on this board gave some pretty plausible legal reasons as to why they are currently wiggling the needles from Enumclaw. Apparently the legal requirement is that you simply wiggle them-you don't have to wiggle them a lot, and you don't need to wiggle them with any kind of special programming. They just have to wiggle long enough and hard enough to satisfy some basic gov'mint requirements. "Good enough for government work" is the expression that comes to mind.

The $20 million question is whether they end up wiggling from Enumscratch at 25k or from Cougar Mt. at 6k. One way or the other, someone will be buying the signal and doing whatever makes sales sense. Obviously it's worth more from Cougar.

Which brings a question== someone on this board I bet has a pretty clear guess as to the answer. What is the purchase price in the current market for the current signal, and what would it be worth at Cougar? I have no clue on that end. Dan? Kelly? Bill W.? AQH? Mamma? BW? Anybody?

Some on the board have said the Cougar proposal is dead. Well, they said that about Nixon in 1960...

As far as price tag, somebody is likely to pay it. Even just to look impressive on the corporate stationary "Oh wow - LOOK! MARTHA! - THESE PEOPLE OWN A STATION IN SEATTLE!"

But as far as power levels go, KMCQ does have other alternatives for the tower.

Regardless, anywhere north of Everett, KMCQ is NOT going to affect KAFE. KAFE has a BIG signal and driving back from Seattle in my wife's little Hyundai - with DAMN nice FM, I can't get KMCQ anywhere north of South Everett. And that's the very furthest I could halfway decent signal. It really starts to peter out by the time you get into Lynnwood and you are getting cross channel interference from KAFE. By the time you get into Marysville, KMCQ is just a memory.

So if KMCQ were to go Cougar Mountain at 25,000 watts, it would get some better South Snohomish County/South Everett coverage, but not much more. Sad fact is, NOTHING on Cougar comes in decently in downtown Everett (KIXI-FM/KLTX had to use a translator on 106.3 there until 1990 when 106.1 went Tiger Mountain and they shut off the 106.3 translator.) Maybe in the hills around Everett, Lake Stevens, Snohomish and possibly Marysville. But KAFE will wipe KMCQ out by the time the signal gets into Stanwood. And forget Mount Vernon on north. KAFE is just too strong up here.

It's not even worth the technical fuss over it because I can already see what would happen if 104.5 went 25,000 watts on Cougar: Not much.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

I spent some time one day driving around town this week to see what they are playing and how their signal does. Was surprised at the metro coverage...given all the "negative" calculator stuff going on here. From a programming side, they picked up where KBSG ended...lots of segues with no jock and no imaging (except occasional legal ID); but that, of course, just could be placeholder while the tech stuff worked out. Technically I noticed some multipath, but generally picking up a decent stereo signal throughout the city (north end...figured they would reach South end no prob).

No matter what they do with it...it WILL have some resale value should they decide to turn around and spin it.

 

[w9wi]

It's not even worth the technical fuss over it because I can already see what would happen if 104.5 went 25,000 watts on Cougar: Not much.

Except that it *can't* go on Cougar unless KAFE changes frequency -- and if KAFE *does* change frequency then the interference problem goes away.

 

[Bongwater]

It's not even worth the technical fuss over it because I can already see what would happen if 104.5 went 25,000 watts on Cougar: Not much.

Except that it *can't* go on Cougar unless KAFE changes frequency -- and if KAFE *does* change frequency then the interference problem goes away.

Well, like I said, Vancouver COULD move CHHR to 103.9 at a lower power (except that CHQM will probably raise enough hell with everybody to give "global warming" a brand new definition.) Thus theoretically opening 104.1 to Bellingham and KMCQ could be heard further north. But why? If KMCQ's target audience is Seattle/Tacoma and KAFE's isn't, it can work just the way it is. KAFE had a very tiny North Seattle audience at best and they can be heard online now. The only real loser in this is KMTT. Because they will be buried even further up north and KMTT does have a pretty good size audience up here compared to most Seattle FMs, especially in Skagit County.

Second, if this did happen, who's gonna pay for KAFE's move to 104.1? I'm sure the Saga folks are scratching their heads and thinking "Ummm...wait a minute" at the very idea that they would have to pay for the move themselves with no benefit or even compensation to them.

And don't even get me started on the HD nightmares for KAFE or KMCQ. Probably not even worth it.

 

[BurntOutRadio]

KMCQ had agreed to pay all KAFE's expenses in changing frequency plus give them more for their trouble. The amounts were lined over in the document that was put on the FCC's website. I wonder how much KAFE is worth to Saga? Would they consider downgrading their signal for a chunk of change to a lower class that would allow KMCQ to move to Couger? A larger signal in Seattle is probably worth quite a bit more than a LARGE signal in Bellingham. Just speculation, but hey, that's what people seem to like on this board.

 

[Bongwater]

KMCQ had agreed to pay all KAFE's expenses in changing frequency plus give them more for their trouble. The amounts were lined over in the document that was put on the FCC's website. I wonder how much KAFE is worth to Saga? Would they consider downgrading their signal for a chunk of change to a lower class that would allow KMCQ to move to Couger? A larger signal in Seattle is probably worth quite a bit more than a LARGE signal in Bellingham. Just speculation, but hey, that's what people seem to like on this board.

Highly doubt KAFE would do that. But it COULD happen. Most radio stations really don't like downgrading their signal without some HUGE compensation.

I think First Broadcasting could have saved a LOT of money and sweat by buying KAFE in the first place and moving it to Seattle. They'd also have a PERFECT set of call letters too.

 

[w9wi]

It's not even worth the technical fuss over it because I can already see what would happen if 104.5 went 25,000 watts on Cougar: Not much.

Except that it *can't* go on Cougar unless KAFE changes frequency -- and if KAFE *does* change frequency then the interference problem goes away.

Well, like I said, Vancouver COULD move CHHR to 103.9 at a lower power (except that CHQM will probably raise enough hell with everybody to give "global warming" a brand new definition.) Thus theoretically opening 104.1 to Bellingham and KMCQ could be heard further north. But why? If KMCQ's target audience is Seattle/Tacoma and KAFE's isn't, it can work just the way it is. KAFE had a very tiny North Seattle audience at best and they can be heard online now. The only real loser in this is KMTT. Because they will be buried even further up north and KMTT does have a pretty good size audience up here compared to most Seattle FMs, especially in Skagit County.

Second, if this did happen, who's gonna pay for KAFE's move to 104.1? I'm sure the Saga folks are scratching their heads and thinking "Ummm...wait a minute" at the very idea that they would have to pay for the move themselves with no benefit or even compensation to them.

And don't even get me started on the HD nightmares for KAFE or KMCQ. Probably not even worth it.

Canada doesn't allow full-power second-adjacents. CHQM would make 103.9 impossible for CHHR, unless CHHR downgraded all the way to class LP. (50 watts) That's not going to happen. (or CHQM could move to 103.3?...)

Could *KAFE* move to 103.9? They'd have to be at least 130 miles from KMTT - I don't *think* they can do that without ending up north of the border but it's too nice out to sit around & do the math If KAFE downgraded it could probably be made to fit -- 103 miles would be enough if KAFE went to Class C3, 88 miles if they went to Class A. How much revenue is KAFE making in Canada? Would CHHR pretty much devalue KAFE's big signal anyway by blocking reception in the Lower Mainland? Or is there enough revenue from Victoria & vicinity (or Seattle's north suburbs) to make the full Class C signal worthwhile?

I've not double-checked to make sure there aren't other stations on/near 103.9 that would block such a plan...

The FCC will not force an operating station to change frequency for the benefit of someone else unless that someone else agrees upfront to cover the costs.

Yeah, if anyone was actually listening to HD Radio this kind of move would be pretty much impossible.....

 

[Mrwns]

Canada doesn't allow full-power second-adjacents. CHQM would make 103.9 impossible for CHHR, unless CHHR downgraded all the way to class LP. (50 watts) That's not going to happen. (or CHQM could move to 103.3?...)

If that was the case, then why was CKKQ and CKPK, both Class C's located right next to each other, (ie 100.3, 100.5)

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, would be for CHHR to move to an open frequency like 88.7 or 89.3 and then have KAFE move to either 103.9 or 104.1.

 

[Bongwater]

Canada doesn't allow full-power second-adjacents. CHQM would make 103.9 impossible for CHHR, unless CHHR downgraded all the way to class LP. (50 watts) That's not going to happen. (or CHQM could move to 103.3?...)

If that was the case, then why was CKKQ and CKPK, both Class C's located right next to each other, (ie 100.3, 100.5)

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, would be for CHHR to move to an open frequency like 88.7 or 89.3 and then have KAFE move to either 103.9 or 104.1.

I was just about to ask that (about CKKQ/CKPK)...

89.3 is KUGS's frequency. Higher power won't work there. However, 88.7 is a possibility. KPLU would have to move it's translator. But don't they have a Bellingham translator app for 101.5 pending (yes, I said KPLU, not KPLZ.)

Excedrin Headache #104: Trying to find room for everybody on FM....

 

[SeattleObserver]

Re: KPLU

I'm not sure what is happening with KPLU. They wanted the full strength class A for Bellingham at 90.3 (currently translator for KUOW-FM) but then they and KUOW came to an "understanding" to hand the new station over to KUOW.

To me it makes more sense to have KPLU continue to expand their regional reach, but whatever. Heck, Northwest Public Radio (Pullman) has a translator in the Skagit Valley, which seems odd since both KPLU and KUOW are closer/would serve that area. Last time I passed through the audio improved, but it sounded like a phone line/Internet feed before that.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/01/14/daily29.html?t=printable

 

[The Shadow]

Canada doesn't allow full-power second-adjacents.

If that was the case, then why was CKKQ and CKPK, both Class C's located right next to each other, (ie 100.3, 100.5)

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, would be for CHHR to move to an open frequency like 88.7 or 89.3 and then have KAFE move to either 103.9 or 104.1.

I was just about to ask that (about CKKQ/CKPK)...

CKKQ and CKPK are both owned by the same company (Jim Pattison Broadcast Group). The common ownership is what got hem the license. They have no one but themselves to blame if there is interference issues. Lower Mainland listeners will likely lose the great signal they currently get from The Q, but with Pattison's companies, the dollar is more mighty than people (aka listeners). The Q may have a ton of listeners on the mainland, but they don't make any ad revenue from this side of the pond. If we can convert AM 600 to FM and screw up a Victoria signal, who cares.

 

[w9wi]

Canada doesn't allow full-power second-adjacents. CHQM would make 103.9 impossible for CHHR, unless CHHR downgraded all the way to class LP. (50 watts) That's not going to happen. (or CHQM could move to 103.3?...)

If that was the case, then why was CKKQ and CKPK, both Class C's located right next to each other, (ie 100.3, 100.5)

Another scenario, although highly unlikely, would be for CHHR to move to an open frequency like 88.7 or 89.3 and then have KAFE move to either 103.9 or 104.1.

I was just about to ask that (about CKKQ/CKPK)...

89.3 is KUGS's frequency. Higher power won't work there. However, 88.7 is a possibility. KPLU would have to move it's translator. But don't they have a Bellingham translator app for 101.5 pending (yes, I said KPLU, not KPLZ.)

Excedrin Headache #104: Trying to find room for everybody on FM....

Different cities - CKKQ Victoria, CKPK Vancouver. I don't think it would fly in the U.S. (FCC tools say CKKQ delivers a 62dBu, protected-contour signal into the reference coordinates for Vancouver - and Canada's definition of "protected contour" is even looser than ours) but some things are different north of the border. As "The Shadow" says, the stations are co-owned.

 

[Bongwater]

Re: KPLU

I'm not sure what is happening with KPLU. They wanted the full strength class A for Bellingham at 90.3 (currently translator for KUOW-FM) but then they and KUOW came to an "understanding" to hand the new station over to KUOW.

To me it makes more sense to have KPLU continue to expand their regional reach, but whatever. Heck, Northwest Public Radio (Pullman) has a translator in the Skagit Valley, which seems odd since both KPLU and KUOW are closer/would serve that area. Last time I passed through the audio improved, but it sounded like a phone line/Internet feed before that.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/01/14/daily29.html?t=printable

An "understanding" in both radio an The Mob are kind of the same things.....

And you're exactly right about KMWS. When it was on 90.1 (the old KSVR frequency), it's feed came off 8kb internet or something awful. Ironically, now they're on 89.7, the top of the hour ID STILL says "KMWS 90.1 Mount Vernon-Burlington"

WSU should stay on the East side. Much as I love the Cougs, most of their PSAs and promotion are for things in Eastern Washington. And KUOW has a really crappy signal in Mount Vernon. KPLU comes in far better (and on 91.1 too if 88.5 doesn't work.) So why the U-Dub didn't start planting more translators around, I'll never know.

KUOW should get a full power repeater on 94.9 in Bellingham and do it YESTERDAY before the Canadians take THAT frequency too. Then use 90.3 as a KEXP translator.....

 

[SeattleObserver]

Re: NWPR- Skagit Valley

I like their fake coverage maps online. NWPR is also in Port Angeles, apparently. (they have more realistic maps if you click on the station call letters)

So why was someone in northwest Washington complaining about losing CBC Radio 2? It appears that NWPR's (mostly classical) music station has a station licensed in Bellingham at 91.7. (hmm, I guess they could always sell that to KPLU/KUOW)

 

[Bongwater]

Re: NWPR- Skagit Valley

I like their fake coverage maps online. NWPR is also in Port Angeles, apparently. (they have more realistic maps if you click on the station call letters)

So why was someone in northwest Washington complaining about losing CBC Radio 2? It appears that NWPR's (mostly classical) music station has a station licensed in Bellingham at 91.7. (hmm, I guess they could always sell that to KPLU/KUOW)

Not all classical stations are the same, believe it or not. KING-FM actually has personalities, so did CBC Radio 2.

NWPR is BORING. Plus they sound AWFUL....

 

[Bongwater]

Re: NWPR- Skagit Valley

I like their fake coverage maps online. NWPR is also in Port Angeles, apparently. (they have more realistic maps if you click on the station call letters)

So why was someone in northwest Washington complaining about losing CBC Radio 2? It appears that NWPR's (mostly classical) music station has a station licensed in Bellingham at 91.7. (hmm, I guess they could always sell that to KPLU/KUOW)

Not all classical stations are the same, believe it or not. KING-FM actually has personalities, so did CBC Radio 2.

NWPR is BORING. Plus they sound AWFUL....

I will clarify, it sounds like what I used to call "CFEX-O-Phonic" CFEX used to be an alternative rock station on 107.3 in Victoria (today, it is CHBE, Kool 107-3 with much better fidelity.) CFEX DID have a good format and great jocks - just one problem.

They sounded like a stereophonic ham radio.

No high end, no bass end. No punchy EXCITING sound to whatever was played. Just a flat, almost monotonic audio frequency range. My Teac EQA -10 only REALLY lit up at around 1,500 - 1,000 - 500 kHz when playing CFEX. And I was just 40 miles east of them! Every other FURTHER station sounded better than CFEX.

Granted, "CFEX-O-Phonic" is still with us today. You have your FM news/talk stations (an audio crime if there ever was, but that's just my opinion.), FM Sports (A MAJOR WASTE OF BANDWITH).

All I can say personally is this. Wake me when KIRO-FM (exclusively, no AM simulcast) is #1. Then I will retire from this board forever, Because by then, all hope is lost on FM too.....Mark these words.....