KMCQ FM

[HowardMBurgers]

To explain further, KNHC has a null to the South and more field strength to the North. You can see the difference by looking at the polar plot of the directional antenna used by KNHC on the FCC website.

If one uses I-5 as a benchmark of signal strength over Everett, Cougar Mt. is blocked by terrain from a hill to the South of downtown Everett. It really doesn't matter how much power you throw in any direction. If terrain blocks it, then it appears as low signal.

 

[semoochie]

I was under the impression that on FM, a directional signal did not increase signal strength in any direction but just cut it off in the nulls.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

It doesn't matter really what frequency, if you remove field strength in one direction, it increases in another (gain). Assuming the antenna is efficient that is, otherwise the excess power is returned as reflected power to the transmitter, which isn't good.

A simple visual, is if you took a sphere of clay and pressed it in the middle, it squirts out on each end. Imagine that sphere of clay being a perfect radiation pattern from a single bay FM antenna. Now add passive or active driven elements at a particular wavelength (1/16th, 1/8th, 1/4, etc) in front or around the radiating element. The element re-radiates the energy causing a null, but also causes the excess energy to radiate in another (hopefully calculated and correct) direction.

Panel antennas like KNHC's are phased to produce higher field strength where the two main lobes meet, (in this case to the North) but because there are only two panels, there is no energy behind the antenna panels to the Southeast. If the phasing between the antennas are set to cancel the other producing a null in a particular direction, several smaller side lobe are still produced. Again, the power has to go somewhere. Usually you don't want a bunch of small lobes and nulls though. If you do then something is usually wrong with the antenna.

 

[watza222]

Why are they reducing the power of kmcq to 8kw?

 

[SeattleObserver]

It doesn't matter really what frequency, if you remove field strength in one direction, it increases in another (gain). Assuming the antenna is efficient that is, otherwise the excess power is returned as reflected power to the transmitter, which isn't good.

A simple visual, is if you took a sphere of clay and pressed it in the middle, it squirts out on each end. Imagine that sphere of clay being a perfect radiation pattern from a single bay FM antenna. Now add passive or active driven elements at a particular wavelength (1/16th, 1/8th, 1/4, etc) in front or around the radiating element. The element re-radiates the energy causing a null, but also causes the excess energy to radiate in another (hopefully calculated and correct) direction.

Panel antennas like KNHC's are phased to produce higher field strength where the two main lobes meet, (in this case to the North) but because there are only two panels, there is no energy behind the antenna panels to the Southeast. If the phasing between the antennas are set to cancel the other producing a null in a particular direction, several smaller side lobe are still produced. Again, the power has to go somewhere. Usually you don't want a bunch of small lobes and nulls though. If you do then something is usually wrong with the antenna.

Good tech!

So to go back to an earlier (related) discussion, are the poorer antennas directing that energy spaceward? It's certainly not hard to receive FM radio in an airplane.

 

[semoochie]

Thank you for clearing that up. I'm not an engineer so a third party must be confused. In answer to the other question, when you increase antenna height above the maximum for the class, you must reduce power to have the equivalent coverage. KMCQ now has a construction permit for a Class C2. That's 50kw @ 150 meters above average terrain. I believe they asked for 364 meters(HAAT) and that calculates to 8.1kw.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

Good tech!

So to go back to an earlier (related) discussion, are the poorer antennas directing that energy spaceward? It's certainly not hard to receive FM radio in an airplane.

There is always a certain amount of energy that travels up from an antenna (again think of the sphere). Depending on the frequency, for this discussion VHF-FM broadcast band- the main reason you hear FM signals so well from an airplane is due from being much more line-of-sight to the antenna, just as if you were on the ground and the antenna was line of sight above you, one is typically above the antenna in an airplane.

You may have heard the expression "antenna gain". In the case of FM broadcast antennas, gain is arrived at by stacking driven elements at 1, 7/8, or 1/2 wavelength apart from each other. For the sake of this discussion, gain is used by broadcasters to focus energy onto the horizon where the listeners are by reducing the amount of radiated energy going straight up or down. Again picture the sphere of clay sitting on a flat surface. By adding gain you take the palm of your hand and press down on the clay. The clay turns more into a disc, or in the case of an antenna a doughnut. The energy is now less going up and down above and below the antenna (wasted energy) but now more focused out to the horizon.

 

[ErikSwanson]

It doesn't matter really what frequency, if you remove field strength in one direction, it increases in another (gain). Assuming the antenna is efficient that is, otherwise the excess power is returned as reflected power to the transmitter, which isn't good.

Howard, your discussion of antenna gain is correct to a point. If FM stations were licensed primarily on the basis of their transmitter output power, then yes, given the same number of bays the use of a directional antenna would result in more power in the main lobe than would the use of an omnidirectional antenna.

But FM stations are licensed primarily on the basis of their effective radiated power. (Transmitter power is listed on the license, but only to indicate what TPO will produced the desired ERP.) So an omndirectional antenna with 8 kW ERP will have 8 kW ERP in all directions (not accounting for effects of the metal tower structure), and a directional antenna with 8 kW ERP will have 8 kW ERP in the main lobe. The directional antenna has higher gain, but as a result the transmitter power would need to be reduced to compensate.

Erik Swanson, P.E.
Hatfield & Dawson Consulting Engineers

 

[HowardMBurgers]

You're totally correct Erik. I was trying to reduce the amout of techno-talk into a brief antenna 101 lesson. There are indeed many more details when it comes to allocations and directional antenna design that could be elaborated upon, which I didn't think was needed in this instance.

Say hello to Ben, Steven, Tom, and Jim (when he's in the office) for me.

 

[semoochie]

If that's the case, it sounds like there's no advantage to a directional antenna if your objective is to increase signal in a particular direction, which is what I was trying to say. It looks like I was correct by default. Obviously, it will still null out undesirable points that need to be protected.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I'm all for having another viable FM signal in metro Seattle and for KAFE to be able to continue being a mega-signal in the north. The new Coast FM in Vancouver also seems to have a decent signal, DX'd steadily into Everett, from what I've heard in my car (not to mention a music format that many Seattleites would probably listen to as well). So it's a squeeze, but looks like it can all be done, without too much loss of coverage. Like they do in Europe or the Northeast US, no?

The part I don't understand is why they had to completely shut down the only higher-powered (no religious puns, please) signal in the Columbia River Gorge area to put this one on hundreds of miles away in suburban Seattle -- particularly if it gets directionalized (by terrain or by antenna design) away from the southeast of the Cougar Mtn xmtr site.

There are several full powered stations in the Yakima area on the same frequencies of class C 100kwers in Seattle, and that's at least 100 miles closer in than what 104.5 was in The Dalles/Hood River. (Tho' it is a pain while driving I-90 around Snoqualmie to listen to the signals fight.) Of course, I know it's closer in miles "as the ether flier" than a drive between Hood River and Bellevue would suggest, but was it really necessary to shut down the only non-lower power signal for a 200 mile stretch of the Columbia Gorge -- where curves in the highways on either side of the river knock out the weaker signals between cities, and where changeable winter weather is a serious factor? Seems like they actually need a couple of signals that will provide local information that you can drive with for more than 20 minutes down there.

Just wondering why it has to be a zero-sum game for 104.5 in this case?

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

My understanding is that was a FIRST not FCC decision. They bought that property to treat as Seattle area move-in. Others know much better ... but my HUNCH is it's probably MUCH less paperwork and hassle to apply for a station move-in than it is to get another station ALLOCATED in the Seattle Metro, go through review, see who will apply for the license, etc. If you own the same frequency and move it, it cuts out the competitive aspects of someone else grabbing the frequency in the TARGET market.

Technically, though, I agree with you ... one market gets under-served so that an over-saturated market can be further over-served. Just to satisfy a loophole. And before the "grumps" eat my pancreas for breakfast....YES, DAMMIT, I GET THE CONCEPT THAT NOT EVERY STATION IN EVERY MARKET IN EVERY SITUATION WILL BE COMMERCIALLY VIABLE AND IT'S OK TO TRY TO MAKE MONEY IN THIS INDUSTRY.

 

[radioplayer]

Littleboy is on the right track here. At the time, (2002) it was a "bypass" if you will of FCC rules pertaining to a Major change of a broadcast facility. In this case, KMCQ was always treated and set up as a "minor" change. The difference is HUGE, because a major change designation would have required amending the table of allotments in the Seattle market. That would then open up the channel to everyone from Tom, Dick and even Larry up there in B'Ham for a filing window if he wanted to file. By keeping the change as a Minor, nobody could file except "effected parties" Therefore, First made the setup as a change to KMCQ's "city of license" and argued that they would increase "listenship and give Covington their First radio service", something we all know is a severe twist on the real use of these Minor change filing rules.

Now we all know that KMCQ wasn't moving down to the next town! However, the rules were successfully modified by persuasive means (I'll let you figure that out) and......xx dollars later, yes, that's right-you get to move to another state! First was extremely successful at this kind of venture and they did in in many markets where they could shoe in another station by bending the table of allotments to their gain.

I would argue though that in this case, they did not end of winning much.....and they did lose a whole lot of $$ vs. the investment that they've put into this "minor change".

 

[TVradioguru]

For whatever your personal opinion of how or why this move-in occurred, one interesting highlight is that nobody in Oregon appears to have cared enough to file public comments as an effected party, at least none that I could find. To me, if the local community was so upset that the local radio station was moving out of the area, why no fight?

 

[bossbill]

"There are several full powered stations in the Yakima area on the same frequencies of class C 100kwers in Seattle".

That statement is incorrect. FCC full-spacing requirements for co-channel stations preclude even a class A within 226 kilometers of a class C. Yakima sites are roughly in the range of 150-180 km from the Seattle sites.

 

[IndigoCoyote]

True, Bill. Maybe someone was thinking of the Tri-Cities market instead, where we have 94.9, 95.7, 105.3 all class Cs.

 

[radioplayer]

For whatever your personal opinion of how or why this move-in occurred, one interesting highlight is that nobody in Oregon appears to have cared enough to file public comments as an effected party, at least none that I could find. To me, if the local community was so upset that the local radio station was moving out of the area, why no fight?

In reply, See the MB file 02-136 and you'll find that close to 100 separate entries were filed on this particular move-in by First. As for opposition and letters from the public in The Dalles, there were some. Why weren't there more? Many folks simply don't know how to oppose such an action and the local papers commonly write these radio move-ins as though they are already done deals, etc.,

Regardless of your persuasion on this move-in, it was not good for The Dalles, nor Seattle in my view. The Dalles lost a clear C 100Kw signal that reached clear into Central Oregon. In one of the filings (I think KMIH may have brought this point up) KMCQ/The Dalles was the primary EAS station there (as in their KIRO-AM here) Since the move, most of SW Wash and N Oregon/central are now Hodge podded via a bunch of far lower powered stations to do the same thing. Not a good way to do EAS for public safety or the nation's HL security. The EAS/HL piece alone ought to had been the best reason not to allow the KMCQ move-in, but it is increasing clear in my view that the powers that be in DC are in it for the $$, not for the public anymore.

In the end, Seattle ends up with yet another radio station out of over 70 in the market and as a C-2, can't cover even 1/2 of the area's real estate, which will make it a marginal player in the PPM.

 

[bossbill]

Many of the entries involved another group jockeying to move 104.5 to Shoreline using smoke and mirrors (a convoluted scheme involving moving KDUX to 104.5 and to Shoreline, KXXK from Hoquiam to Aberdeen, and a "new" open allotment on 104.7 in Hoquiam). It was that scheme, in which KAFE refused to negotiate for antenna change or frequency move, that exposed the fact that Saga in fact did have an agreement with First for just such a move.

I just don't recall local opposition to the move.

The KMCQ move, while lengthy and expensive, and certainly not done soon enough to fetch the big bucks before the economic meltdown, didn't really deprive the Oregon Coast of radio service. In fact, it created new signals which have filled the void, if there ever was one.

And while First found it desirable to cover their butts by buying the Forks stations after the owner died, I never was sure why they felt it necessary. Seems that they could have forced a frequency change in Forks without the co-operation of the owners, since there was more than one alternative Class A frequency available.

 

[BurntOutRadio]

For those of you bummed out by KMCQ moving to Covington and leaving The Dalles, OR., I offer this by a guy who calls himself "Seguedad" and is a newspaper editor in The Dalles.

Here's what I wrote in my June 3 newspaper column:

KHAL-FM (93.5 mHz, with a 103.1 mHz translator covering The Dalles) went on the air in Condon nearly a year ago. The call letters came from Hal Rose, president of First Broadcasters Investment Group in Texas. They're the ones that bought Q-104 in The Dalles and shifted it to the Seattle suburb of Covington. As part of that deal, they secured a construction permit for the Condon station, to help replace coverage lost in that area when the 100,000-watt Q-104 left.
Haystack completed putting the station on the air with the KHAL call letters already in place.
Now they have been changed to KWCQ, which is being promoted as "The New Q." That happened May 18. Clever folks will remember that the old Q-104's call sign was KMCQ, and the new KWCQ is the same — with the M turned upside down.
"Future plans for the station," says a press release, "include a power increase from the current 35, 000 watts to a full 100,000 watts. This will give the station the biggest single radio station signal between Heppner and Hood River, Goldendale and Madras." Haystack also owns KYYT-FM (Y-102) and KLCK.

 

[FMSteve]

So they increase power and call themselves KMCQ after the Cougar move and consequent sale is completed. The Dalles gets another 100,000 watt signal coming into their market. Pretty crafty if you ask me. And guess where Haystack broadcasting is located?

620 East Third Street, The Dalles, Oregon.