It seems like most commercial radio stations have gotten pretty savvy about burying their calls and legal ID deep within station imaging to the point that most people wouldn't even notice.
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KMCQ is BACK!!!
- Thread starter Rob Piotrowski
- Start date
It seems like most commercial radio stations have gotten pretty savvy about burying their calls and legal ID deep within station imaging to the point that most people wouldn't even notice.
Apparently we haven't buried our HD channel call letters deep enough. I spent 15 minutes yesterday explaining to a listener why "KSWW HD-4 Ocean Shores" did not mean that we had an FM translator in Ocean Shores... and explaining that Community of License had little to do with transmitter site, the concept of HD, and why he would have to buy a special radio, etc. Then there was the explanation that we really do have an FM translator but it is licensed to yet another community, and the ID is not audible because it uses FSK or something like that.
On the positive side, the person you speak of did (at the very least) make an attempt to find the information from a good source of information. Asking an owner or an engineer is probably a better strategy than dialing up the studio line to ask questions about engineering or about why something works the way that it does.
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If I were you I wouldn't use FSK on and HD to translator relay for that reason. It makes sense to do it when you are rebroadcasting an analog signal.
Huh? No comprende.
I agree with Kelly, this post makes no sense.
What I was trying to say is I would ID the translator audibly for exactly the reasons Bill gave. Maybe, just maybe the person who Bill spent 15 minutes explaining the technical stuff too would have understood and may not have called the station if there had been an audible ID on the translator.
Whereas accepted, I know of no translators that actually use CW (Morse code). I believe that's what Bob was referring to. There may be some that are ID'ing using a LF pulsed CW, but I've never heard any while in the PNW.
Most translator ID's are buried somewhere with the main station ID three times per day:
Identification of translator and booster stations. Translator stations must be identified by the licensee by the following means:
The identification must occur 3 times daily: once between 7 AM and 9 AM, once between 12:55 PM and 1:05 PM, and once between 4 PM and 6 PM. Stations that do not begin operating before 9 AM must provide the identification at the beginning of the broadcast day. The licensee of the translator station must arrange for the primary station to keep in the primary FM station's file (and to make available to FCC personnel), the call sign and location of the translator station. This record must include the name, address, and telephone number of the translator licensee or his service representative to be contacted in the case of a malfunction of the translator. See 47 CFR Section 74.1283(c)(1).
... by transmitting the call sign in Morse Code at least once hour. See 47 CFR Section 74.1283(c)(2) for additional requirements for transmission of the call sign in this manner.
Booster stations are identified by the primary station, by the broadcasting of the booster's call sign and location, in accordance with 47 CFR Section 73.1201.
Most translator ID's are buried somewhere with the main station ID three times per day:
Identification of translator and booster stations. Translator stations must be identified by the licensee by the following means:
The identification must occur 3 times daily: once between 7 AM and 9 AM, once between 12:55 PM and 1:05 PM, and once between 4 PM and 6 PM. Stations that do not begin operating before 9 AM must provide the identification at the beginning of the broadcast day. The licensee of the translator station must arrange for the primary station to keep in the primary FM station's file (and to make available to FCC personnel), the call sign and location of the translator station. This record must include the name, address, and telephone number of the translator licensee or his service representative to be contacted in the case of a malfunction of the translator. See 47 CFR Section 74.1283(c)(1).
... by transmitting the call sign in Morse Code at least once hour. See 47 CFR Section 74.1283(c)(2) for additional requirements for transmission of the call sign in this manner.
Booster stations are identified by the primary station, by the broadcasting of the booster's call sign and location, in accordance with 47 CFR Section 73.1201.
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OK Geek Squad, time to take this discussion to the Engineering/HD/Radio Shack forum.
I guess I had better retract my statement about Bill's Bigfoot brand being safe, totally forgot about the one launching in central PA. As for audible IDs of translators, I think KHTP uses some other method to ID their two, as I was recording them yesterday and did not get an audible ID, just KHTP and KHTP HD1 Taccoma Seattle.
Since when did Frank appoint you as moderator?
Since when did Frank appoint you to ask questions like that? Lighten up, Kelly...it's a joke.
(c) A translator station authorized under this subpart shall be identified by one of the following methods.
(1) By arranging for the primary station whose station is being rebroadcast to identify the translator station by call sign and location. Three such identifications shall be made during each day: once between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05 p.m. and once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. Stations which do not begin their broadcast before 9 a.m. shall make their first identification at the beginning of their broadcast days. The licensee of an FM translator whose station identification is made by the primary station must arrange for the primary station licensee to keep in its file, and to make available to FCC personnel, the translator's call letters and location, giving the name, address and telephone number of the licensee or his service representative to be contacted in the event of malfunction of the translator. It shall be the responsibility of the translator licensee to furnish current information to the primary station licensee for this purpose.
(2) By transmitting the call sign in International Morse Code at least once each hour. Transmitters of FM broadcast translator stations of more than 1 watt transmitter output power must be equipped with an automatic keying device that will transmit the call sign at least once each hour, unless there is in effect a firm agreement with the translator's primary station as provided in § 74.1283(c)(1) of this section. Transmission of the call sign can be accomplished by:
(i) Frequency shifting key; the carrier shift shall not be less than 5 kHz nor greater than 25 kHz.
PTEK FM transmitters have the FSK feature built-in to comply with (i).
It's confusing enough to say "KSWW HD-2 Ocean Shores", and adding K234AU Aberdeen further confuses the poor listener who thought we had a translator in Ocean Shores, based on our HD ID. Burying the calls seems so... misleading. Sorta like the warning on the cigarette package in 2 pt font...
(1) By arranging for the primary station whose station is being rebroadcast to identify the translator station by call sign and location. Three such identifications shall be made during each day: once between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05 p.m. and once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. Stations which do not begin their broadcast before 9 a.m. shall make their first identification at the beginning of their broadcast days. The licensee of an FM translator whose station identification is made by the primary station must arrange for the primary station licensee to keep in its file, and to make available to FCC personnel, the translator's call letters and location, giving the name, address and telephone number of the licensee or his service representative to be contacted in the event of malfunction of the translator. It shall be the responsibility of the translator licensee to furnish current information to the primary station licensee for this purpose.
(2) By transmitting the call sign in International Morse Code at least once each hour. Transmitters of FM broadcast translator stations of more than 1 watt transmitter output power must be equipped with an automatic keying device that will transmit the call sign at least once each hour, unless there is in effect a firm agreement with the translator's primary station as provided in § 74.1283(c)(1) of this section. Transmission of the call sign can be accomplished by:
(i) Frequency shifting key; the carrier shift shall not be less than 5 kHz nor greater than 25 kHz.
PTEK FM transmitters have the FSK feature built-in to comply with (i).
It's confusing enough to say "KSWW HD-2 Ocean Shores", and adding K234AU Aberdeen further confuses the poor listener who thought we had a translator in Ocean Shores, based on our HD ID. Burying the calls seems so... misleading. Sorta like the warning on the cigarette package in 2 pt font...
As for audible CW, I'd agree with that. There are quite a few translators that use FSK'd Morse however. In this sense, I'm not sure FSK does anything more than comply with an FCC rule, as nobody I know has a practical way to hear it. It would seem this also applies to the FCC, as a translator I take care of once got a NOV for not doing their IDs. It took some letter writing and submitting the receipt for the FSK chip to get the violation rescinded. The engineer who filed it didn't say how he decided there was no ID.
I went so far as to ask someone at Crown how they'd go about verifying an FSK ID over the air. He said the only way he could think of would be to tune an analog radio in the opposite direction of the frequency shift and listen for the keying to take the receiver beyond it's ability to hold the channel. Even then, he said you'd probably have to kill the audio to make that work. Maybe watch an 'S' meter on some kind of communications receiver?
I can see the point of having an audible ID. On the other hand, they sound misplaced, like announcing the call sign of your RPU or STL. They may mean something to someone here, but I doubt the masses care they're listening to KXXX on K212YZ. FSK eliminates the confusion and you can always look up the frequency of a translator on the FCC's database to find out where / what it is.
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How many poster think 103.3 KMCQ will be a move in of some sort? (Even if it only makes it to Everett.) With Bill W, and Greg Smith behind it, it's chance for success is guaranteed.
Interesting how the 'pros' on this forum say that call letters have no relevancy...then why recycle old Seattle market calls? KNBQ has been recycled twice. Just sayin'.
Interesting how the 'pros' on this forum say that call letters have no relevancy...then why recycle old Seattle market calls? KNBQ has been recycled twice. Just sayin'.
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