KMCQ New Update/Canada

[FMSteve]

Here's an update on the KMCQ/104.5 channel. Remember, KAFE must move to 104.1 to effectuate the KMCQ change to Cougar Mountain. But Canada has other ideas for 104.1 across the border.

Click here: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Hearings/2007/n2007-18.htm

 

[Bongwater]

International horse trading I see: I see KAFE switching to 104.1 regardless unless KMTT complains and I don't even think that will make a difference.

Dammit, let's just face it. As lame as it is, the FM band is becoming WORSE than AM. WAY worse. And this is why I give credit to AM stations like KWLE. Not necessarily for nostalgic reasons (I just bought an antique 1942 Philco Radio-Table radio, I may mention, Model 42-842, and it's AM only. Just because it looks COOL!) Or even just because there has been something missing from that side of the dial for a long time. But because it STILL works, is why AM still rocks and as compressed as most of today's recordings are mastered, I doubt anybody would know the difference. In fact, KWLE sounds AWESOME on this ancient radio. Even my nephews agree. "But, like, why does the music suck, and who are these people with 1-800 numbers..." (Rolling my eyes), "I'm still looking for that answer". I say, but come the SUMMER of 2008, I hope KWLE develops into something 100% LIVE and LOCAL just to prove me RIGHT... AM radio CAN rule again, just PROMOTE IT!!!!!

PLEASE KWLE, IT CAN BE PROVEN.....Like I have $100 riding on this, I know my wife will absolutely KICK MY A$$ if I made another bet with anyone on the internet....Please promote HEAVILY locally. And please do not be afraid to defend yourselves from the grumpy old folks in the Skagit Valley Herald as I have (coming soon.) This is the best advice I can legally give you for now........

The best advice I can give you besides that is the very UNDISPUTED fact that KPLU RULES!!

Cheers!,

Larry

 

[radioplayer]

International horse trading I see: I see KAFE switching to 104.1 regardless unless KMTT complains and I don't even think that will make a difference.
.......

Larry

Larry,

You are absolutely right on! It will make NO DIFFERENCE (sadly) regarding KMTT, if they complain. Canada will do whatever they feel like doing in their "best interest".....which is exactly why the KMCQ app is also in serious trouble.

I'd love to hear an engineer's perspective on this, but here's what I see happening in 2008:

Channel 104.1 gets a nod from Canada and one of FM Steve's listed fellas gets to build out to 8-10Kw on Mt. Seymour, effectively "boxing in" KAFE and anyone south of the 49th to do anything regarding a switch of frequency.

If a deal is later struck, it's still going to be some time before anything happens....in the meantime, there's elections coming and we all know that this stuff just grinds to a halt whenever the big cheese is going out after 8 years....so more of nothing happening.

I predict it will be 2009 before anything occurs on either 104.1 or 3 or 5 for that matter!

Canada will grant something on 104.1 in late 2008.

First/Alta Com will either sell the CP at The Dalles for the move to Covington, or give up altogether in either 2008 or 2009.

 

[semoochie]

Almost on topic: KMIH has applied to relicense as a Class A, giving them full protection!

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Just a thought. I know this has been done before in other markets, and on the AM dial was just recently done here. Salem bought 1290 in Pt. Angeles to shut it off, allowing 1300 to jump to 50k. What would Saga take to shut off/ vacate 104.3? Bet it would pencil out. Then KAFE format moves to 92.9, or not...whichever format makes more sense for the cluster.

$4mil? 6? 8?

Your thoughts, please. Call it Plan B.

 

[fybush]

Just a thought. I know this has been done before in other markets, and on the AM dial was just recently done here. Salem bought 1290 in Pt. Angeles to shut it off, allowing 1300 to jump to 50k. What would Saga take to shut off/ vacate 104.3? Bet it would pencil out. Then KAFE format moves to 92.9, or not...whichever format makes more sense for the cluster.

$4mil? 6? 8?

Your thoughts, please. Call it Plan B.

Not gonna fly. Even if Saga returns the KAFE license, the FM table of allocations would continue to carry the 282C allocation for Bellingham, which would have to continue to be protected as a maximum class C facility, and which would eventually be put up for auction again.

Now, if someone were to pay Saga's cost (probably significantly higher than the numbers above) to apply to reallocate 282C from Bellingham to, I dunno, Omak...that might work. But it wouldn't happen cheaply.

 

[FMSteve]

Just a thought. I know this has been done before in other markets, and on the AM dial was just recently done here. Salem bought 1290 in Pt. Angeles to shut it off, allowing 1300 to jump to 50k. What would Saga take to shut off/ vacate 104.3? Bet it would pencil out. Then KAFE format moves to 92.9, or not...whichever format makes more sense for the cluster.

$4mil? 6? 8?

Your thoughts, please. Call it Plan B.

Hmm. Very interesting. How 'bout this: KAFE does a minor change to second adjacency 104.7 Mhz and degrades their signal to a C0 or C1. Since the new 104.1 allocation in Vancouver will degrade KAFE's signal anyway, they won't need as much power to cover Canada. Hopefully there wouldn't be a problem with 104.5 up in Campbell River, nor 104.9 in Vancouver. I'll look at my maps to see if this could work. Both sides of the border have shown a willingness to accept interference from each other.

I guess never say never. Still, it doesn't look too promising, in my book.

 

[semoochie]

Is that too close to Aberdeen?

 

[w9wi]

Not gonna fly. Even if Saga returns the KAFE license, the FM table of allocations would continue to carry the 282C allocation for Bellingham, which would have to continue to be protected as a maximum class C facility, and which would eventually be put up for auction again.

Now, if someone were to pay Saga's cost (probably significantly higher than the numbers above) to apply to reallocate 282C from Bellingham to, I dunno, Omak...that might work. But it wouldn't happen cheaply.

Well, they *could* apply to have the 282C allocation deleted from the table. It wouldn't leave Bellingham unserved, as 92.9 would still exist.

I guess the question would be whether they could get the FCC to promise to delete the channel before the KAFE license is surrendered. Don't know of any precedent on that, either for or against. Of course, then there's the cost - it won't be cheap to get a full Class C deleted - though with the loss of KAFE's presumably large Canadian audience it may not be nearly as valuable as it was.

Y'know, this 104.1 Vancouver thing seems to have come out of the clear blue sky. (facilities that would interfere with reception of U.S. stations north of the border is nothing new, nor is use of 3rd-adjacent channels, but this specific allocation seems to have materialized from nowhere.)

I'm curious what the table-of-allocations change process is north of the border. And I thought these things were coordinated, between Industry Canada and the FCC, so that the FCC would have known the Canadians were planning on using this frequency.

(or *did* the FCC know but Saga filed before it could end up in any FCC public files?)

There's a BUNCH of people who spent a BUNCH of money preparing applications for this frequency in Vancouver. My gut feeling is that 104.1 is going to remain a north-of-the-border channel.

 

[FMSteve]

Not gonna fly. Even if Saga returns the KAFE license, the FM table of allocations would continue to carry the 282C allocation for Bellingham, which would have to continue to be protected as a maximum class C facility, and which would eventually be put up for auction again.

Now, if someone were to pay Saga's cost (probably significantly higher than the numbers above) to apply to reallocate 282C from Bellingham to, I dunno, Omak...that might work. But it wouldn't happen cheaply.

Well, they *could* apply to have the 282C allocation deleted from the table. It wouldn't leave Bellingham unserved, as 92.9 would still exist.

I guess the question would be whether they could get the FCC to promise to delete the channel before the KAFE license is surrendered. Don't know of any precedent on that, either for or against. Of course, then there's the cost - it won't be cheap to get a full Class C deleted - though with the loss of KAFE's presumably large Canadian audience it may not be nearly as valuable as it was.

Y'know, this 104.1 Vancouver thing seems to have come out of the clear blue sky. (facilities that would interfere with reception of U.S. stations north of the border is nothing new, nor is use of 3rd-adjacent channels, but this specific allocation seems to have materialized from nowhere.)

I'm curious what the table-of-allocations change process is north of the border. And I thought these things were coordinated, between Industry Canada and the FCC, so that the FCC would have known the Canadians were planning on using this frequency.

(or *did* the FCC know but Saga filed before it could end up in any FCC public files?)

There's a BUNCH of people who spent a BUNCH of money preparing applications for this frequency in Vancouver. My gut feeling is that 104.1 is going to remain a north-of-the-border channel.

Guys, the new 104.1 allocation up in Canada was presented to the US for approval on June 1, 2007, and it was thereafter approved by the FCC on June 28th, 2007. First Broadcasting then sent in their minor change app and contingent application for KAFE to change just several weeks later in July 2007. They are now asking for the 281c Vancouver allocation to be deleted. So they want their cake and they want to eat it too. I am not making this stuff up.

Click here: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=601463

I'll see if 104.7 mhz could work for them. In any event, I see this as a political problem that requires an engineering solution. But what else is new with this whole mess. Going on 7 years now.

 

[FMSteve]

I just looked at the maps of KDUX, KAFE & CKVX. Turns out KAFE would have extreme interference from Vancouver's CKVX 104.9. Here's the map: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=CKVX&service=FM&status=F&hours=U

So I don't see any way around this except to fight it to the death with the Canadians for 104.1.

Another idea floating around the office is to move KMCQ to Brown's Point with a directional array protecting KDUX. That would be the EZ squeezy option to get on the air right now, without having to have a multi-million dollar build- out in Enumclaw running on diesel generator power at 3 Sisters.

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Wow! I knew I could count on you guys to come up with some thoughts.

But, Scott, why move 104.3 to Omak when FB could buy it and move it to Forks? It's not like they don't have a tower there! Hee hee.

I just find it hard to believe that these guys didn't have a plan b, even a plan c...especially when you are dealing this close to the Canuck border.

 

[radioplayer]

I just looked at the maps of KDUX, KAFE & CKVX. Turns out KAFE would have extreme interference from Vancouver's CKVX 104.9. Here's the map: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=CKVX&service=FM&status=F&hours=U

So I don't see any way around this except to fight it to the death with the Canadians for 104.1.

Another idea floating around the office is to move KMCQ to Brown's Point with a directional array protecting KDUX. That would be the EZ squeezy option to get on the air right now, without having to have a multi-million dollar build- out in Enumclaw running on diesel generator power at 3 Sisters.

Nice work FM Steve!

I don't know about Brown's Point though.....remember that KMCQ/104.5 has to protect KDUX, Aberdeen, Funky Monkey at 104.9 and the present operations at KAFE, B'ham, all while serving the new COL of Covington.....this isn't going to be easy since we all are old enough and smart enough to know that the real prize is serving Seattle, not Covington. Also note that Brown's point is straight up the sound towards KAFE's tower and there's nothing in the way of terrain shielding whatsoever. Also, their 54Dbu signal contour comes down pretty far into King Co., so there's not a lot of room to maneuver this into place from there as things presently stand.

One could argue that these guys settle for a "south sound" station, but I don't think First is going to settle for such a loss....we’re talking a major reduction in the alleged profit potential if that's the new idea now.....not my idea of a good plan B if it were....

I really think that the eng consultants at First/Alta have already figured this entire thing out. I further note that they're at their last pitch at the bottom of the ninth, pressing on legally with a modified contract that says "we're still interested in this and we have options to make this work FCC"....but I also point out that First is a week late in their filings last year and the FCC isn't going to then tell the State Dept., to then tell Canada what to do! No, this latest filing isn't going anywhere north.....only sideways maybe.

Therefore, the problem as I see it is three fold: One: Canadians hate the Bush Admin and moreover, the "US encroachment" factor; Two: The Canadians will not reward a "Texas Company" so it will not relinquish the current posting for channel 281 C at Vancouver; Three, the FCC rarely reverses itself for anyone, so it has to be good enough to make a change.....don't see this issue as paramount to anyone other than investors at First, so a reversal is not going to happen at the Commission level.

On the technical side, the other thought I had was that KAFE could be effectively "downgraded" to a lower class. The problem is that they still have to cover the COL and the value of the station would be significantly reduced if they did this. In the end First has to ask itself: do you take a 10 or 20 mil $$ hit to reduce KAFE, while assuming the same increase will be fetched for the new KMCQ at Covington? It's a risky guess and it's quite possible there's someone at the FCC that's going to say absolutely NO to this idea. We also know by now that there's been so many curve balls thrown in this game that anythings still possible no matter how silly it might be.