KMIH's translator question

[gr229]

I just need to understand this.
How can KMIH broadcast from a translator on Capital Hill (94.5) that is license for White Center and the signal doesn't reach White Center?
Can this translator be reassigned to the community of White Center as a full power signal..say 10kw?
The translator is own by N.W.Indy Radio (Dr. Sandy in charge) out of Olympia..or is it SAM_SNO Educational Media the owner?
How can this be?.......Dr Sandra W. your response? or anyone?

I should loan the FCC a flashlight...where they got their head is pretty dark.
Thanks!!

 

[Bongwater]

I just need to understand this.
How can KMIH broadcast from a translator on Capital Hill (94.5) that is license for White Center and the signal doesn't reach White Center?
Can this translator be reassigned to the community of White Center as a full power signal..say 10kw?
The translator is own by N.W.Indy Radio (Dr. Sandy in charge) out of Olympia..or is it SAM_SNO Educational Media the owner?
How can this be?.......Dr Sandra W. your response? or anyone?

I should loan the FCC a flashlight...where they got their head is pretty dark.
Thanks!!

I do believe you can privately own an FM translator. As a non-profit (such as NW Indy), you have to rebroadcast non-profit stations (such as KMIH). Not so bad. CSN/EMF does worse....

I also think that White Center is technically a part of Seattle (where the hell is it anyway? Around Burien? I think? Haven't been down that way in many, many moons.)

Translators can be reassigned, but they CAN'T become full power stations......

On the other paw, KRWM is licensed to Bremerton, but listening to KRWM in Bremerton proper isn't the crystal clear, rock solid FM experience you'd exactly expect either.......

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Couple points of clarification. I am not Dr. Sandi, just a dumb guy who volunteers on her stations as the morning guy. But this much I know.
1) K233BU is owned by Mercer Island Public School District #400.
2) White Center is an unincorporated area just south of Seattle's city limits and just north of Burien.
3) White Center falls well within the contours for this signal on the FCC maps.
4) When this translated our LPFM out of Fall City, you could hear us loud and clear in White Center.

Why does the FCC need a flashlight on this one, exactly? Are they ignoring the law? Who is being interfered with by this translator? Nobody. Or are you suggesting that a transmitter should be in it's city of license? If so, then 103.7 and 97.3 better find a high spot in Tacoma, 92.5 a good spot in Bellevue, 106.9 a good spot in Bremerton, and 105.3 a good spot in Edmonds. And the 104.5 in, uhh, Covington. And all those big Seattle AMs need to get back within city limits and off Vashon Island.

If you look at age and ethnic demographics, I think you would be hard pressed to see how White Center was NOT being well served by this translator. Certainly makes more sense than another K LOVE satellator.

 

[w9wi]

How can KMIH broadcast from a translator on Capital Hill (94.5) that is license for White Center and the signal doesn't reach White Center?

The principal community ("city of license") rules don't apply to translators. In theory you could have a translator licensed to Spokane with a transmitter in Tacoma.

Can this translator be reassigned to the community of White Center as a full power signal..say 10kw?

No. You can't transfer a translator to the "regular" radio service.

A new full-power signal can only be created if the frequency could be "allotted" to the proposed principal community, in this case White Center. For that to happen, it would be necessary to show a site existed where a 6kW/100m station could be built that would provide a 70dBu signal across the entire principal community without interfering with any other existing station or application.

(the rules are different below 92MHz.)

I think you can assume this condition cannot be met for 94.5 at White Center. The site for such a station would need to be at least 95km (about 60 miles) from KMPS 94.1's tower (and 75km from KUOW's tower) but would need to be within 16km of the most distant point in White Center in order to meet the principal community coverage rules. (which would apply if 94.5 became a "full-power" station) I'm not in Seattle so I'm not completely familiar with the geography but I'm pretty sure no point exists that's within 16km of White Center but more then 95km from the KMPS tower.

The translator is own by N.W.Indy Radio (Dr. Sandy in charge) out of Olympia..or is it SAM_SNO Educational Media the owner?

According to http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?state=&call=K233BU&city=&arn=&serv=&vac=&freq=0.0&fre2=107.9&facid=&class=&dkt=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9 the licensee is Northwest Indy Radio.

 

[FMSteve]

Just a few corrections:

The translator in question is owned by NW Indy Radio and is rebroadcasting KMIH. From what I understand, the school district has no involvement here and simply gave their consent to the rebroadcast. This same translator rebroadcasted KCFL-LP in Fall City some years ago.

There's no way a full-power station could fit in this spectrum.

Finally, I think it was a pretty neat idea for the kids to have a better signal.

 

[gr229]

Why does the FCC need a flashlight on this one, exactly? Are they ignoring the law? Who is being interfered with by this translator? Nobody. Or are you suggesting that a transmitter should be in it's city of license? If so, then 103.7 and 97.3 better find a high spot in Tacoma, 92.5 a good spot in Bellevue, 106.9 a good spot in Bremerton, and 105.3 a good spot in Edmonds. And the 104.5 in, uhh, Covington. And all those big Seattle AMs need to get back within city limits and off Vashon Island.

If you look at age and ethnic demographics, I think you would be hard pressed to see how White Center was NOT being well served by this translator. Certainly makes more sense than another K LOVE satellator.
[/quote]



These stations have at least some coverage in their respected communities..94.5 (KMIH) has none and is license for White Center. From a legal stance it should be Seattle right?
Confusing part is how you say your in one part but not be there? Shouldn't the translator have at least some signal to the city of license?
And by the way if not a full power license the 64 watts they do transmit would be plenty for the area and more.

So to my understanding is that if I own a translator on a assigned frequency I can lease or give consent to anyone? and they can be anywhere in the U,S.A.?
I would like to hear KMIH in White Center either 88.9 or 94.5 in Burien too!

Thanks

Bongwater
FMSTEVE
W9WI
IndigoCoyote

 

[jwvo]

Just to clear a few things up:


1. K233BU does reach White Center, for the uninitiated, White Center is basically west and slightly north of Tukwila. I drive down to Tukwila all the time for my real work and and the coverage of 94.5 is pretty darn good so the paperwork does match up with this.

2. because K233BU is in the commercial band it has to pick up KMIH off-air, for those interested, we are on KCTS' tower and the large Yagi receiving the signal is mounted on the east side of the building. I assure everyone, this is a legal operation (it might actually be a bit under power as we are seeing a VSWR that is a bit high for my tastes, in the next month or so i will borrow the correct test-gear to check this out). In fact we worked with the CBS and KUOW to make sure that nobody got interference complaints from the second adjacent signals and in fact run a large filter network on the output of the transmitter to assure this.

3. If you take a look at the coverage, you will also notice that K233BU really beefs up the coverage on the west side of Mercer Island which given our status as the emergency information station for Mercer Island is pretty important.

4. The legal setup revolving around the translator actually is run through the non-profit that helps the mercer island schools run the non-education related aspects of the station. This non-profit maintains a retransmit agreement with the Mercer Island Schools as well as the contracts with NW Indy Radio (who i must say was very helpful). Eventually this translator will be transitioned over to our ownership as agreed to by our contracts with NW Indy Radio.

In any case, the first order of business here at KMIH is to get our main air processor replaced on 88.9, we had our old Omnia die and are finishing up the orders to get ourselves a new omnia6. 94.5 uses a FM receiver which outputs a baseband MPX signal which is fed to the exciter and as such it is basically an identical copy (never demodulated) of the 88.9 signal. Our poor backup processor has a hard time handling the programing these days. In any case, keep your ears peeled over the next few weeks as the audio on both gets cleaner again.