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KMVK HD-2

rbrucecarter5 said:
I think the incentive will come when it is evident listenership is small / there is little revenue from advertisements / it is time to clean house of superflous equipment / nobody knows how to maintain the HD exciter. The biggie in my book is when stations with separate HD antenna systems figure out it is costing them coverage. And in case this sounds familiar - this is the exact scenario that is shutting down AM stereo - or was shutting it down - prior to the advent of IBOC.

HD radio is making its way into small, nichy car lines. It will fail or succeed based on Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, and some other large auto makers. And it can't be just one or two - it needs to be in several. Even that won't guarantee success - AM stereo radios were standard equipment for decades in some lines of cars. Consumers simply didn't care - or didn't even know they had the capability.

As far as people liking HD-2 streams - there is NO graceful degredation path. HD-2 disappears into silence, or defaults back to the station's analog programming which may be of NO interest to the HD-2 listener. Switching back and forth is just as annoying as listening to two co-channel FM's in the fringes - one moment you hear what you want, the next something totally different. And they change back and forth. NOBODY wants to hear two formats switching back and forth.

I do have an idea about what to do about the HD-2 degradation problem - the FM station could buy up a languishing AM station in the market with similar coverage, convert it to C-Quam (or HD if they ever solve nighttime problems), and run their HD-2 format on it. This has several benefits - not the least of which is a lot of publicity for the HD-2 format "you think we sound great on AM - go buy a new HD radio and you can hear us in crystal clear digital!" The listener hears the HD-2 format - NOT the FM analog format when they lose reception - it provides a tremendous boost to HD-AM if IBOC nighttime issues are resolved. If not, at least the HD radio can decode C-Quam day and night, and the coverage with C-Quam is fantastic. The only drawback that I see is how to accomplish automatic band and frequency switching - but this should be really simple to embed in an FM signal and HD radio.

And this ladies and gentlemen is what you get when someone that doesn't own an HD Radio starts sharing their opinions about it.

Is there such a thing as an HD Radio that switches back to the analog signal when you reach the edge of the coverage area and HD2 drops out? The JVC HD unit mentioned above doesn't. The Boston Acoustics Recepter HD doesn't. The Sony HD Radios don't either.
 
Radioman100 said:
rbrucecarter5 said:
I think the incentive will come when it is evident listenership is small / there is little revenue from advertisements / it is time to clean house of superflous equipment / nobody knows how to maintain the HD exciter. The biggie in my book is when stations with separate HD antenna systems figure out it is costing them coverage. And in case this sounds familiar - this is the exact scenario that is shutting down AM stereo - or was shutting it down - prior to the advent of IBOC.

HD radio is making its way into small, nichy car lines. It will fail or succeed based on Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, and some other large auto makers. And it can't be just one or two - it needs to be in several. Even that won't guarantee success - AM stereo radios were standard equipment for decades in some lines of cars. Consumers simply didn't care - or didn't even know they had the capability.

As far as people liking HD-2 streams - there is NO graceful degredation path. HD-2 disappears into silence, or defaults back to the station's analog programming which may be of NO interest to the HD-2 listener. Switching back and forth is just as annoying as listening to two co-channel FM's in the fringes - one moment you hear what you want, the next something totally different. And they change back and forth. NOBODY wants to hear two formats switching back and forth.

I do have an idea about what to do about the HD-2 degradation problem - the FM station could buy up a languishing AM station in the market with similar coverage, convert it to C-Quam (or HD if they ever solve nighttime problems), and run their HD-2 format on it. This has several benefits - not the least of which is a lot of publicity for the HD-2 format "you think we sound great on AM - go buy a new HD radio and you can hear us in crystal clear digital!" The listener hears the HD-2 format - NOT the FM analog format when they lose reception - it provides a tremendous boost to HD-AM if IBOC nighttime issues are resolved. If not, at least the HD radio can decode C-Quam day and night, and the coverage with C-Quam is fantastic. The only drawback that I see is how to accomplish automatic band and frequency switching - but this should be really simple to embed in an FM signal and HD radio.

And this ladies and gentlemen is what you get when someone that doesn't own an HD Radio starts sharing their opinions about it.

Is there such a thing as an HD Radio that switches back to the analog signal when you reach the edge of the coverage area and HD2 drops out? The JVC HD unit mentioned above doesn't. The Boston Acoustics Recepter HD doesn't. The Sony HD Radios don't either.

AFAIK this only happens when listening to the HD1 channel. I'd suspect on HD2, it would just go silent if the HD2 signal is lost.

R
 
Robert Bass said:
AFAIK this only happens when listening to the HD1 channel. I'd suspect on HD2, it would just go silent if the HD2 signal is lost.

Exactly. Just pointing out that once again, the HD bashers have no idea what they're talking about. They really make it too easy. If you're endlessly expressing opinions about a subject you know nothing about, you're bound to make at least a few mistakes.
 
I do own one.. Sangean HDT-1, and if the HD-2 channel drops out long enough it will indeed revert to the analog, then go to HD-1 when the digital signal quality is qood enough to switch back to HD, which in KMVK's case is quite a departure from Smooth Jazz. From HD-2 Grover Washington to En Vogue when I forced it to happen by misorienting the antenna. And just now it did it without any help, switched to Gwen Stephani from Tony Gable that was playing on HD-2.

As I sit here now listening to "Morning Dance- Spyro Gyra" playing for the umpteen hundredth time I think it sure would be nice to hear something new and different on The Oasis once in a while. They must have a very limited play list.
 
Megapsycle said:
I do own one.. Sangean HDT-1, and if the HD-2 channel drops out long enough it will indeed revert to the analog, then go to HD-1 when the digital signal quality is qood enough to switch back to HD, which in KMVK's case is quite a departure from Smooth Jazz. From HD-2 Grover Washington to En Vogue when I forced it to happen by misorienting the antenna. And just now it did it without any help, switched to Gwen Stephani from Tony Gable that was playing on HD-2.

As I sit here now listening to "Morning Dance- Spyro Gyra" playing for the umpteen hundredth time I think it sure would be nice to hear something new and different on The Oasis once in a while. They must have a very limited play list.

And this ladies and gentlemen is what you get when someone states an opinion without owning all the radios and likes to bash other people on the list.

Radioman, I have seen Mr carter5 post accuarate information here for years and his own opinions have been pretty good too....Your statement you made about him was evidently inaccurate as he DID post correct info on HD2 in SOME RADIOS..just not the ones YOU own!!

I think my statement above (modified from yours) is likely much more accurate than yours was.......so how about stuffing it for a while?? GEESH.....

IBOC on FM I have no problem with; it works....IBOC on AM, Oh yeah I do!! with MILLIONS of analog radios out there and HD walkmans still a dream due to battery life and other issues, as well as Citadel turning it OFF at night (especially on the ABC flamethrowers like WLS, WBAP, etc), IBOC is doomed on AM.....who wants to keep paying Ibiquity high prices for something they cant use???

As Scotty said, you canna change the laws of physics.....yet IBOC on AM DOES try to do just that....you cant have digital and analog on the same channel period! The tertiary sidebands of IBOC are right there with the analog...DUH! and what is digital sidebands to a AM receiver? NOISE...when you construct the PEREFCT IF filter with no slope and perfect flattop and no ripple in the passband, THEN MAYBE IBOC AM will work....untill then, its a joke...
 
An hour ago I switched to KDMX HD-2 "The Summit" and it's been rock solid, unlike how I receive KMVK HD-2. Pretty good station too. Been listening to it quite a bit lately. Do 102.9 and 107.5 both transmit from Cedar Hill?
 
CW said:
And this ladies and gentlemen is what you get when someone states an opinion without owning all the radios and likes to bash other people on the list.

Radioman, I have seen Mr carter5 post accuarate information here for years and his own opinions have been pretty good too....Your statement you made about him was evidently inaccurate as he DID post correct info on HD2 in SOME RADIOS..just not the ones YOU own!!

I think my statement above (modified from yours) is likely much more accurate than yours was.......so how about stuffing it for a while?? GEESH.....

Gladly, if the anti-HD contingency like rbrucecarter will "stuff it" for a while as well.

His post wasn't made in reference to the Sangean radios, it was a blanket statement about all HD radios that was clearly incorrect. As he has repeatedly stated that he doesn't own an HD Radio and has no desire to, I felt this begged for some correction, and I stand by my statement.

ANY HD radio will revert to analog if it loses the digital signal for long enough. The key words there are long enough. It is not, as Mr. Carter asserted a constant switching back and forth. It takes time. On my radios, especially the JVC car stereo where it might actually matter, the delay is long enough to overcome switching back when listening in fringe areas. Perhaps the delay is shorter in the Sangean radios. There is some delay though, as Megapsycle also said it will switch back to analog if the digital signal drops out "long enough."

As for Mr. Carter, he is a DXing enthusiast, who like the others here, makes a habit of spreading misinformation about HD Radio. I only like bashing him because he goes out of his way to bash a technology that he doesn't know much about for the sole purpose of dissuading people from buying HD Radios. He hates HD Radio and wants it to fail because he believes it has a negative impact on his DXing hobby.

People can believe whoever they want. Mr. Carter, who regularly claims lots of kids in Lubbock are buying GE Superadios to DX Radio Disney on KMKI and thinks massive numbers of people in Dallas want to listen to the ABC satellite delivered classic rock format of KMAD in the metroplex, or you can believe someone that actually has some engineering experience with HD radio installations and owns several different HD radios.

There's nothing wrong with sharing experiences with HD Radio, as long as your experiences are just that - experiences, not misinformed opinion delivered with a clear slant against the technology.
 
Megapsycle said:
An hour ago I switched to KDMX HD-2 "The Summit" and it's been rock solid, unlike how I receive KMVK HD-2. Pretty good station too. Been listening to it quite a bit lately. Do 102.9 and 107.5 both transmit from Cedar Hill?


Yes although they're on 2 different towers.
 
Megapsycle said:
An hour ago I switched to KDMX HD-2 "The Summit" and it's been rock solid, unlike how I receive KMVK HD-2. Pretty good station too. Been listening to it quite a bit lately. Do 102.9 and 107.5 both transmit from Cedar Hill?

102.9 is on the same tower as KPLX at the back of the CH farm (also original site of KVIL and Q102).
107.5 is on a tower just east (which has three CBS stations on it, completed after the KXAS tower fall in 96), right next to the railroad tracks cutting through town and across Beltline (get a good look at the guys on it....the top has three different side mount for the stations on it; 105.3, 107.5 and 100.3...but the guys have splices in them....a cheaply done tower and its surprising its lasted this long...it WAS originally slated to be a master type like Senior Road in Houston but that didnt happen)
 
Thanks ... how wide east-to-west is the antenna farm these days? I remember when there was only one tower with ch's 4,5 and 8 so it has certainly expanded! Ans when 11 was touted as "Texas tallest tower". But I digress... I might well have multipath problems with 107.5 because I have issues with some UHF digital TV channels too. Ever since a 20 story office building went up to the SSW about a mile from me some channels are unwatchable, while others are good. Yep I still get mine OTA. For mobile HD, seems to me a diversity receive antenna would be a good thing to have to minimize dropouts and multipath effects.
 
Megapsycle said:
Thanks ... how wide east-to-west is the antenna farm these days? I remember when there was only one tower with ch's 4,5 and 8 so it has certainly expanded! Ans when 11 was touted as "Texas tallest tower". But I digress... I might well have multipath problems with 107.5 because I have issues with some UHF digital TV channels too. Ever since a 20 story office building went up to the SSW about a mile from me some channels are unwatchable, while others are good. Yep I still get mine OTA. For mobile HD, seems to me a diversity receive antenna would be a good thing to have to minimize dropouts and multipath effects.

4,5 and 8 were on the original Hill tower that got damaged by the Navy Jet...5 moved to its own tower...4 and 8 own the new tallest tower on the hill with the big candelabra...I have a list somewhere that shows the towers..BUT if you go to FCC's web site then go to ASR (Antenna registration) and do a search for towers in Cedar Hill,you csan get a list of all of the; last I counted there are at least 11 in CH most west of 67...and then the Richlands towers south and off the hill (and they are almost 2000ft AGL but because they are lower in sealevel they arent any higher above HAAT or AMSL than the 4/8 tower)
 
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