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KMZT Going Talk/Adult Standards
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
It's down at the bottom of the page. It was mentioned on the 15th. :-\
So what does this say about Classical as a commercial format. In some other cities, when they lost Classical on FM, they succeeded on AM. In Kansas City, KXTR got moved from FM to the X-band on AM (above 1600). And I believe it's still there and getting decent ratings.
Also in Portland OR, classical got moved from FM to AM 930 I believe and it lasted quite a few years, as the #3 or 4 AM station in the market.
Of course, LA is also without an Adult Standards station too. But is Classical such a failure as a format that no one can figure out how to make a buck from it, even on weak AM outlets?
After all, Classical had been an FM format since FM stations first went on the air. Now that we've past 2000, Classical is doomed as a radio format? It only lasted 300 or 400 years till now.
Gregg
[email protected]
Also in Portland OR, classical got moved from FM to AM 930 I believe and it lasted quite a few years, as the #3 or 4 AM station in the market.
Of course, LA is also without an Adult Standards station too. But is Classical such a failure as a format that no one can figure out how to make a buck from it, even on weak AM outlets?
After all, Classical had been an FM format since FM stations first went on the air. Now that we've past 2000, Classical is doomed as a radio format? It only lasted 300 or 400 years till now.
Gregg
[email protected]
I'm visiting Kansas City as I write this. I could click a link and find out for sure, but offhand, I can't imagine KTXR pulling decent numbers with such a lousy signal.
Like a number of other markets, Kansas City once had the longhair stuff on a big signal FM. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the reason the format still survives here on the inferior X-band signal is due to agreements made during some major frequency swaps that went down several years ago. As I recall, the move of 1250 (ex-WREN) from Topeka with the resultant power boost and flip to Spanish was part of all this.
Bottom line point is, unfortunately, I don't believe classical music is still on a commercial outlet here because its doing well with listeners or advertisers.
Like a number of other markets, Kansas City once had the longhair stuff on a big signal FM. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the reason the format still survives here on the inferior X-band signal is due to agreements made during some major frequency swaps that went down several years ago. As I recall, the move of 1250 (ex-WREN) from Topeka with the resultant power boost and flip to Spanish was part of all this.
Bottom line point is, unfortunately, I don't believe classical music is still on a commercial outlet here because its doing well with listeners or advertisers.
D
dbdigital
Guest
To adapt a line from Casablanca about classical music on radio: "We'll always have public radio." And KUSC does a decent job programming classical. Also, according to the New Yorker magazine, classical music is doing surprisingly well on the net.
But let's face it, terrestrial radio today, for the most part, is programmed to pander to the broadest and basest of tastes. It stands to reason that classical music would be an early casualty in this 'dumbing down' process.
However, I believe Saul still has classical on his HD2 channel. So, at least, there's 7 or 8 listeners in all of LA County who are enjoying KMZT's programming.
db
But let's face it, terrestrial radio today, for the most part, is programmed to pander to the broadest and basest of tastes. It stands to reason that classical music would be an early casualty in this 'dumbing down' process.
However, I believe Saul still has classical on his HD2 channel. So, at least, there's 7 or 8 listeners in all of LA County who are enjoying KMZT's programming.
db
In Portland OR, KKSN-AM was in the 3 share range before KYTE-FM switched to Classical. The former was immediately wiped out! KYTE-FM took Classical to a 5.3 share, once. Later on, they moved it to their AM and it quickly bombed. Still later, another FM went Classical but the ratings were approaching paltry, probably because by that time, there was a fulltime noncommercial Classical station.
G
gerald
Guest
I think this one is pretty obvious. You can't do classical on AM, it just doesn't fit! Let's face it, back in the day classical was put on FM as part of the marketing blitz for "fine music" (and to fill the frequency when simulcasting was frowned upon), but the fact is, the nature of FM suits classical music. And all the composers being dead probably had a hand in it a$ well 8)
But as noted, LA had 2 classical FM stations for quite a while and frankly that's one more than necessary. If KUSC didn't exist or didn't do an OK job, there would be a minor outcry and someone would program classical on FM. But it does and it does, so there's no need.
Talk fits on AM just fine. If Saul comes up with some hosts that click, all will be well. For a book or two anyway, then perhaps he's go back to adult standards AGAIN. I'm about ready for All-Beatles or All-Sinatra again, aren't you?
But as noted, LA had 2 classical FM stations for quite a while and frankly that's one more than necessary. If KUSC didn't exist or didn't do an OK job, there would be a minor outcry and someone would program classical on FM. But it does and it does, so there's no need.
Talk fits on AM just fine. If Saul comes up with some hosts that click, all will be well. For a book or two anyway, then perhaps he's go back to adult standards AGAIN. I'm about ready for All-Beatles or All-Sinatra again, aren't you?
D
dbdigital
Guest
There was a time in L.A., back in the 60's, when KFAC programmed classical on both AM and FM. This made sense then because FM was just beginning.
But now classical on AM is unnecessary and even unlistenable given how poorly most modern radios receive AM.
db
But now classical on AM is unnecessary and even unlistenable given how poorly most modern radios receive AM.
db
Public radio can do classical much more effectively than most commercial FM stations can.
With commercial stations, music is slotted into format clocks. That doesn't work well with classical. Plus, advertisers just don't really understand it, and commercial classical outlets don't usually air hard-sell ads. They're not much for "monster blowout"-style selling. Granted, there are still commercial outlets like WQXR, WFMT and WCLV that are still doing well with it.
Non-coms have an infrastructure well suited for classical music. Donors and underwriters are already in place, more attention can be paid to programming, without the pressure of the bottom line, some have statewide or regional networks that make it viable and there's a widespread network of similar stations to lean on. non-coms also seem to do a better job at educating listeners about the music, which is something commercial stations never did, and they also dedicate airtime to other genres such as jazz and folk.
With commercial stations, music is slotted into format clocks. That doesn't work well with classical. Plus, advertisers just don't really understand it, and commercial classical outlets don't usually air hard-sell ads. They're not much for "monster blowout"-style selling. Granted, there are still commercial outlets like WQXR, WFMT and WCLV that are still doing well with it.
Non-coms have an infrastructure well suited for classical music. Donors and underwriters are already in place, more attention can be paid to programming, without the pressure of the bottom line, some have statewide or regional networks that make it viable and there's a widespread network of similar stations to lean on. non-coms also seem to do a better job at educating listeners about the music, which is something commercial stations never did, and they also dedicate airtime to other genres such as jazz and folk.
flakunkel said:
As I said, there are exceptions. I mentioned NY, Chicago and Cleveland. KING in Seattle is another. But noncommercial radio often has a pretty good infrastructure and dedication to the format. After all, how often do the people who work at the commercial stations have to hear rumors about format flips? I know the San Francisco station is one of them.
This format will fail. Michael Jackson is 100 years old and his time has come and gone. The rest of the line up is just as awful. Saul Levine is nuts. Anyone want to put money on the fact the format is gone in a year? Hey! Where's Marv Gray? Maybe Saul can dig him up and stick him on the air. Dead air is better than what he has in mind.
I disagree. Done right, and with additional local air talent, I think KGIL can find its niche, just as the former KGIL did in the past. Is it going to deliver a 1.0 12+? Probably not. Especially not with its signal which is quite unlistenable in OC and elsewhere. Also, syndicated shows like Dr. Joy Browne are not going to pack them in. Larry King Live is not good radio. Neal Boortz is big in GA & FL, but has not caught on here on the West Coast. However, Wall Street Journal Radio is actually pretty good, and 1260 has been airing it (preview) this week from 8:30a to 9a and it is quite interesting.kilohertz said:
I do like the idea of re-playing Michael Jackson in PM drive. Those of us in the office during his 9a shift pretty much never get to hear him live, so it will be a treat to have access to his show during the drive home.
I think Glenn Beck would be a better choice than Larry King. Michael Jackson will hit a certain audience. The problem is what he is against, Rush and O'Reilly for the Conservatives and Thom Hartman for the Liberals. Then you have Dennis Prager for the intellectuals which is who he really more fits in with. Jackson will need a really strong lead in and Bill Handel won't be moving there (to KGIL). It may not even do better than the Classical, they got better numbers with the Country and Adult Standards before that.
What I am saying is that this is an ambitious project but not likely to be a success. Maybe they should survey the Westside and Valley listeners who get the best reception of the KGIL highly directional signal and see what they like to hear. But with a music format they could maybe sell it as a bonus combo to ad buyers on GO Country,not as easy for News Talk, or Classical for that matter.
What I am saying is that this is an ambitious project but not likely to be a success. Maybe they should survey the Westside and Valley listeners who get the best reception of the KGIL highly directional signal and see what they like to hear. But with a music format they could maybe sell it as a bonus combo to ad buyers on GO Country,not as easy for News Talk, or Classical for that matter.
Beck is on 830. Regardless of how barely above mediocre one or two of the shows are, it won't matter. Kilohertz: I won't bet on the flipping predispositions of Mr. Levine, but I'll happily bet on billing. Easily under $500k/yr excluding whatever brokered programming they run.
flakunkel said:
But it barely slides into the top 20 in billing... a big majority of the listeners are 55+, and there is not much of an ad market for that group, no matter how affluent.
I know but I also can not get it clearly at home and only on the road after I get out of the Valley toward Pasadena. If he were on KGIL it would fill in the bad signal areas somewhat. I too don't understand the frequent flips on 1260. I think Mr. Levine knows he has little chance there, maybe wishes he had never bought it but now he has it. He has invested in a new transmitter and added a tower to replace the wire that was hanging between two of the original towers so it now has 20KW and 7.5 at night. The problem is the directionality and the general trend of high background noise from computers, appliances and the computerized auto systems driving around. I think if you're going to have low ratings and know it then go with something that will do the best you can and it looks to me like that was the Adult Standards (American Song Book) format he had before the country before and the Oldies too.
I really do not see the weak talk format he now offers as being able to get out of the dumper. The other option is to sell it and then the question is to whom?
I too don't understand the frequent flips on 1260.
Looks to me like you do understand the reason for the frequent flips-- everything you list below is a negative that prevents him from making enough revenue to keep a format in place.
The problem is the directionality and the general trend of high background noise from computers, appliances and the computerized auto systems driving around.
You can't make money if you can't generate ratings, and you can't generate ratings in a market like LA with an inferior (and limited reach) signal, a niche format and a lack of marketing. It's the trifecta of challenges, and when you add to it the fact that he's an independent owner with limited means and limited stations, it's even worse-- he's constantly forced to react to the marketplace around him.
Looks to me like you do understand the reason for the frequent flips-- everything you list below is a negative that prevents him from making enough revenue to keep a format in place.
The problem is the directionality and the general trend of high background noise from computers, appliances and the computerized auto systems driving around.
You can't make money if you can't generate ratings, and you can't generate ratings in a market like LA with an inferior (and limited reach) signal, a niche format and a lack of marketing. It's the trifecta of challenges, and when you add to it the fact that he's an independent owner with limited means and limited stations, it's even worse-- he's constantly forced to react to the marketplace around him.
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