KNBR Daytime In Phoenix

[oldiesfan6479]

Today at 1:24 PM MT/12:24 PM PT while driving in the southeast area
of metro PHX, I picked up KNBR 680 San Francisco--doing a traffic report
then into a stop set. Also at 2:01 PM MT/1:01 PM PT, in a stopset (incl.
a Shane Co spot) but with several mentions of KNBR.

I was near the Chandler Municipal Airport (CHD) on the Loop 202 freeway;
this was an approx. distance of 667 st. mi. (using the great circle mileage
CHD-SFO).

The overcast day may have had something to do with the reception.

I got something on 810 but could not discern if it was KGO. While 680
came in all the way from Frisco, there was no pickup on 660 of KTNN
Window Rock, AZ.

Forget KFI El Lay, if there was anything on 640 it was covered by the
second-adjacent I-CRAP slop from KTAR 620 Phoenix.

Wait...640. The noise could have been a CONELRAD test.

 

[gar hi]

Interesting.

Even without any skip, KNBR really gets out far!

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KNBR&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

I'm still hoping to get them here at night but no luck so far. Our local on 680 can be nulled out exactly in the direction of SF but the frequency is too crowded.

And looking at the Radio Locator map, they really get out into the Pacific with a surface wave and I wonder how far out there they can be heard during the day.

 

[Len14043]

I heard KNBR during the day just west of Salt Lake City while on a trip, but wasn't sure if that was rare daytime skip or the consistent groundwave. Perhaps someone from Utah can tell us.

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

Im Sure with the salt Water of the pacific they probly can go trans pacific at night to at least japan. and maybe all the way down under to aussie and NZ but dont quote me on it and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

 

[radioman148]

Im Sure with the salt Water of the pacific they probly can go trans pacific at night to at least japan. and maybe all the way down under to aussie and NZ but dont quote me on it and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

On Oahu I couldn't get KNBR day or night as there was a strong local Honolulu station on 690.
However KFAX and KTRB came in very well everynight.

 

[gar hi]

and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

That's what I was getting at but I think someone here already said they were there and couldn't hear it during the day.

On Oahu I couldn't get KNBR day or night as there was a strong local Honolulu station on 690.
However KFAX and KTRB came in very well everynight.

Was that you I was referring to or was there someone else who attempted to hear it in another part of Hawaii with less or no interference but still couldn't?

I'll bet it could be heard 1000 miles out during the day but 2000 or more? Maybe with the best equipment?

 

[Len14043]

Im Sure with the salt Water of the pacific they probly can go trans pacific at night to at least japan. and maybe all the way down under to aussie and NZ but dont quote me on it and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

The salt water would only affect groundwave reception, i.e. daytime reception.

 

[BRNout]

I heard KNBR during the day just west of Salt Lake City while on a trip, but wasn't sure if that was rare daytime skip or the consistent groundwave. Perhaps someone from Utah can tell us.

Having dxed a bit in that area, I'm of the opinion that you had some rare daytime skip. Of course, KNBR booms into that area at night pretty consistently.

Normally, KBOI Boise and (maybe) KKOH Reno are about as far as you can get in the daytime without a little atmospheric assistance. KID Idaho Falls comes in weakly there too (not quite as distant, but not bad for 5 kw). Also I've gotten KDWN in the west desert; but farther to the south of that area (west of Nephi).

 

[radioman148]

and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

That's what I was getting at but I think someone here already said they were there and couldn't hear it during the day.

On Oahu I couldn't get KNBR day or night as there was a strong local Honolulu station on 690.
However KFAX and KTRB came in very well everynight.

Was that you I was referring to or was there someone else who attempted to hear it in another part of Hawaii with less or no interference but still couldn't?

I'll bet it could be heard 1000 miles out during the day but 2000 or more? Maybe with the best equipment?

I highly doubt that KNBR could be heard on any Hawaiian Island during the day except perhaps on a very rare occasion.

 

[gar hi]

Im Sure with the salt Water of the pacific they probly can go trans pacific at night to at least japan. and maybe all the way down under to aussie and NZ but dont quote me on it and im sure they get to hawaii during the day especially if there is no 680 over there.

The salt water would only affect groundwave reception, i.e. daytime reception.

I thought it also makes for a better nithttime skip than a skip off land.

Isn't that the reason many west coast stations are reveived so well in Hawaii at night?

The same can't be said about nighttime reception on the west coast of east coast stations and it's about the same distance.

 

[BRNout]

I thought it also makes for a better nithttime skip than a skip off land.

Isn't that the reason many west coast stations are reveived so well in Hawaii at night?

The same can't be said about nighttime reception on the west coast of east coast stations and it's about the same distance.

It is better; in part because the good ground conductivity still helps a little and in part because there are no physical barriers on the ocean. But most important of all is that there are few, if any, stations in the middle of the ocean (Hawaii is an exception). So very little stands between you and that transmitter across the pond. Over land, you have mountains (which can impede low angle skywave and absorb signal) and you have loads of stations on every frequency.

On the first point (about conductivity), I've set foot in the ocean at night while holding my radio - yes it was nerdy - and the reception of certain skywave signals actually did improve a little bit. You could hear the improvement as you walk across the beach and toward the water.

 

[Len14043]

BRNout, I can see how good ground conductivity would push the cancellation zone out further, but once the ground wave, i.e. daytime signal poops out, you have to rely on the skywave exclusively. I'll use the example of KSL and WHAM, both 50,000 watt stations close in frequency. The groundwave for KSL is superior to that of WHAM because KSL has a much better daytime range. The ground conductivity in Utah is superior to that of Western New York. The superior ground conductivity also pushes out the nighttime interference free zone. However, at night in Kansas City, approximately between SLC and Rochester, and well beyond the groundwave coverage of both stations, the signals are about equal in strength (at least they were in the early 80's before the band became crowded). If I am wrong, I stand corrected.

 

[BRNout]

BRNout, I can see how good ground conductivity would push the cancellation zone out further, but once the ground wave, i.e. daytime signal poops out, you have to rely on the skywave exclusively. I'll use the example of KSL and WHAM, both 50,000 watt stations close in frequency. The groundwave for KSL is superior to that of WHAM because KSL has a much better daytime range. The ground conductivity in Utah is superior to that of Western New York. The superior ground conductivity also pushes out the nighttime interference free zone. However, at night in Kansas City, approximately between SLC and Rochester, and well beyond the groundwave coverage of both stations, the signals are about equal in strength (at least they were in the early 80's before the band became crowded). If I am wrong, I stand corrected.

Yes, I understand that concept; though KSL has a better tx setup than WHAM and that helps its skywave to have superior coverage characteristics. My money would be on KSL kicking butt on WHAM around Kansas City.

However, wouldn't being seaside help quite a bit with low-angle skywave?

 

[radioman148]

BRNout, I can see how good ground conductivity would push the cancellation zone out further, but once the ground wave, i.e. daytime signal poops out, you have to rely on the skywave exclusively. I'll use the example of KSL and WHAM, both 50,000 watt stations close in frequency. The groundwave for KSL is superior to that of WHAM because KSL has a much better daytime range. The ground conductivity in Utah is superior to that of Western New York. The superior ground conductivity also pushes out the nighttime interference free zone. However, at night in Kansas City, approximately between SLC and Rochester, and well beyond the groundwave coverage of both stations, the signals are about equal in strength (at least they were in the early 80's before the band became crowded). If I am wrong, I stand corrected.

Yes, I understand that concept; though KSL has a better tx setup than WHAM and that helps its skywave to have superior coverage characteristics. My money would be on KSL kicking butt on WHAM around Kansas City.

However, wouldn't being seaside help quite a bit with low-angle skywave?

KSL was one of the strongest mainland stations I heard in Hawaii. Stronger than many of the stations right on the west coast.

 

[vibe]

Back in the mid 70's my (now ex) and I drove to the Grand canyon from El Paso TX. It was late November; I remember receiveing a lot of West Coast Stations from Winslow AZ to the Canyon from about midday on. It had to be early skywave; the weather was definitely cloudy.
At the time I did not know what early skywave was; I thought the West Coast stations simply had huge coverage areas.
But it's that silly season..

 

[Len14043]

BRNout, I can see how good ground conductivity would push the cancellation zone out further, but once the ground wave, i.e. daytime signal poops out, you have to rely on the skywave exclusively. I'll use the example of KSL and WHAM, both 50,000 watt stations close in frequency. The groundwave for KSL is superior to that of WHAM because KSL has a much better daytime range. The ground conductivity in Utah is superior to that of Western New York. The superior ground conductivity also pushes out the nighttime interference free zone. However, at night in Kansas City, approximately between SLC and Rochester, and well beyond the groundwave coverage of both stations, the signals are about equal in strength (at least they were in the early 80's before the band became crowded). If I am wrong, I stand corrected.

Yes, I understand that concept; though KSL has a better tx setup than WHAM and that helps its skywave to have superior coverage characteristics. My money would be on KSL kicking butt on WHAM around Kansas City.

However, wouldn't being seaside help quite a bit with low-angle skywave?

With all of the new assignments on 1180, WHAM is a difficult catch in KC today, but they still blast into Minneapolis, probably because they are much further from Cuba. Back in the early 80's however, KSL and WHAM put an equally strong signal into KC area. I see your point with respect to low-angle skip near the ocean.