METROMEDIA owned and operated CHANNEL 32 from 1968-70. At that time, there were several new UHF TV Stations that had just signed on the air (KEMO-20 and KBHK-44 in 1968 and KUDO-38 in 1969). Their CHANNEL 32 flopped and they donated it to KQED. My question is "What if KNEW-TV CHANNEL 32 was successful and METROMEDIA kept operating it, Would we have had a FOX 32 today instead of KTVU? My guess would be yes, that KTVU would have stayed an INDEPENDENT a little bit longer and become the WB affiliate in 1995 and would have become MY NETWORK TV today, unless of course, FOX would have bought KTVU and create a DUOPOLY, move FOX to KTVU and move MY NETWORK TV to 32. Hmmm.....I wonder?
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KNEW-TV 32: What If....
- Thread starter Madmansam
- Start date
Madmansam said:
I remember watching Wonderama on KNEW-32 when I was about 6 years old. I remember the station being on the air less and less and then finally vanishing altogether. Some time later I remember the KQEC sign-on.
I researched the station at the San Francisco library though old newspapers, old TV-guides and broadcasting yearbook to confirm what I remembered.
Here's what I remember watching or reading about later:
KUDO 38 was originally going to air mostly locally produced programming. All I remember seeing was stock market reports in the morning hours. In looking at old TV guides, I saw that it aired some "B" movies on the weekend. Yes...I was a geek even between the ages of 5 and 7. After the station went dark, Faith Center, headed by Dr. Eugene Scott picked up the station several years later for a song and returned it to air as a religious station.
KNEW-TV 32. Aired a strong list of Metromedia programming in it's first two years of existence.
KEMO-TV Overmeyer/US Broadcasting. I remember watching Patty Duke and Speed Racer on KEMO before it went dark in 1971. Leon Crosby returned the station to air the following year with a mix of Spanish and English programming. He used the call letters and the same logo and continues operating the station until he sold to Gabbert in 1980.
***
I feel that Metromedia would have had to fund KNEW for years without profit in order to survive. It was hard to compete with VHF, KTVU-2. I think the only reason KBHK and KGSC (KICU) survived early on was due to owner subsidy.
Had Metromedia held on to KNEW-TV, it may have very well become the Fox station for the Bay Area.
I seem to agree with you. It was hard to compete against a VHF INDEPENDENT KTVU. I just find it hard that the owners of both KBHK (Kaiser Broadcasting) and KGSC (Ralph Wilson Industries) was able to subsidies their UHF and not METROMEDIA. METROMEDIA was a bigger corporation than either KAISER BROADCASTING and (especially) RALPH WILSON INDUSTRIES. Somehow both Kaiser and Ralph Wilson were able to get a better TV rerun and Movie packages. In fact, in its early years, KBHK had an even bigger Children's Programming (Cartoons, Three Stooges, Little Rascals) than KTVU. And KBHK competed with KTVU with its Horror/Sci Fi Movie Packages (KBHK's MONSTEROUS MOVIE, THE GHOUL, and later SON OF SVENGOOLIE against KTVU's CREATURE FEATURES and CHILLER DILLER). KGSC seemed to specialized in the ALL NIGHT MOVIES (MOVIES TILL DAWN) since neither KTVU or KBHK play ALL NIGHT MOVIES. I would have thought that Big Company, METROMEDIA, would have better subsidied KNEW than Kaiser and Ralph Wilson but than again, in their other big markets, NY-WNEW 5 and LA-KTTV 11, METROMEDIA had VHF Indies and not UHF. Had METROMEDIA owned CHANNEL 9 instead of CHANNEL 32 in SAN FRANCISCO, Maybe KTVU would have had a harder run as Top Independent in the Bay Area?Michael Rivers Kramer said:
e-dawg said:
There is precedence for this. In Pitsburgh, WENS Channel 16 was a Commercial station on the air for a short while in the 1950's before going dark. WQED-13 picked up the license to operate it as WQEX, which they did on and off from 1959-Present day. The FCC converted the station to commercial in 2002 and WQED still operates it, but as a Shop NBC Affiliate..here is it's Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WQEX
While there seems to be a lot of good info here, there is a bit more "opinion" here than I wopuld be comfortable with..Just a heads-up..
Tim L said:
radio dx said:
Apparently, the FCC found that KQED had misstated the reasons for taking KQEC dark for a period in the 70's and or 80s. KQED stated that they received "junk" from Metromedia and had to take KQEC down for technical reasons. Officials testified that they donated a fully functional UHF television station to KQED and that KQED cannibalized KQEC for the benefit of KQED. The believed that KQEC was taken dark due to financial reasons and not technical reasons. The FCC awarded Channel 32 to challenging applicant, Minority Television. KQED appealed and then threw in the towel. Minority Television took over the frequency in 1991.
If you do a google search (in groups) in Ba.broadcast on KQEC or KNEW-TV, you'll find this information.
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
Interesting information about KQED. From what I know, KQED is now a well run organization, but it hasn't always been the case. They personally ticked me off in the late 70s (or early 80s perhaps) when they pushed hard to raise all that money to build their state of the art studio. Their argument was that it would expand their ability to produce local programming, and become more than the typical PBS affiliate that filled all of their broadcast hours with PBS shows.
Not only did they NOT expand local programming once the facility was completed, but within a year or so, they cancelled the acclaimed Newsroom program, by far the best source of real local news and information at the time. For a number of years after that, I believe that the only show produced at KQED was Over Easy with Hugh Downs and Mary Martin.
Interesting info re: the KCSM/KDTV switch, and the channel 32 connection.
Can anybody provide a specific timeline of when KCSM and KDTV first signed on?
I'm a lifelong Bay Area resident, but was too young to fully understand why those stations seemed to be on only part of the time.
I'm especially interested in finding out when KDTV started, as I seem to remember there always being a Spanish-language station in the Bay Area...although I might be confusing KDTV with KEMO, which I remember prior to 1980.
I don't recall KCSM being on 14, and am sure that KDTV had that channel number by 1978(which is about as far back as I can clearly remember).
In my area, we had an early form of basic cable, and KDTV was a 'shared channel' with Sacramento's KTXL. This used to bother me when I was much younger, because we could receive KTXL in the morning(I remember watching cartoons), but in early afternoon, the cable company would switch to KDTV...by showing about half an hour of 'dead air', followed, just before 1 PM, by KDTV's sign-on(which I remember for being in both Spanish and English...the only English-speaking content the station ever had!)
After a few years of this, the cable company finally expanded and the two stations no longer 'shared' channel space.
I've wondered if that early-afternoon sign-on was just something my cable company put in to make it look like KDTV was really signing on in the afternoon, or if the station really was 'dark' until that time every day. Anybody know?
Can anybody provide a specific timeline of when KCSM and KDTV first signed on?
I'm a lifelong Bay Area resident, but was too young to fully understand why those stations seemed to be on only part of the time.
I'm especially interested in finding out when KDTV started, as I seem to remember there always being a Spanish-language station in the Bay Area...although I might be confusing KDTV with KEMO, which I remember prior to 1980.
I don't recall KCSM being on 14, and am sure that KDTV had that channel number by 1978(which is about as far back as I can clearly remember).
In my area, we had an early form of basic cable, and KDTV was a 'shared channel' with Sacramento's KTXL. This used to bother me when I was much younger, because we could receive KTXL in the morning(I remember watching cartoons), but in early afternoon, the cable company would switch to KDTV...by showing about half an hour of 'dead air', followed, just before 1 PM, by KDTV's sign-on(which I remember for being in both Spanish and English...the only English-speaking content the station ever had!)
After a few years of this, the cable company finally expanded and the two stations no longer 'shared' channel space.
I've wondered if that early-afternoon sign-on was just something my cable company put in to make it look like KDTV was really signing on in the afternoon, or if the station really was 'dark' until that time every day. Anybody know?
Newname said:
KCSM-TV (On 14) 1964
KDTV (on 60) 1975
KCSM and KDTV swapped channels in 1979.
Back to 32....
KSAN-TV 32 on in 1954 went dark a few times and for a period in the mid 1960's rebroadcasted now dark KICU-43 Vislia/Fresno in the Bay Area. The station was owned by Norwood Patterson. He sold Channel 32 to Metromedia who then rechristened 32 as KNEW-TV. Metromedia moved the KSAN Call letters to 94.9. In 1970, Metromedia donated 32 to KQED.
It would have been interesting to see Fresno ads in the Bay Area. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
J
JackBauer112
Guest
Newname said:
No. KICU was actually Channel 43 which was the original holder of the KICU call letters in 1961. It was the 2nd independent station in Fresno as KAIL-TV Channel 53 digital Channel 7 then independent, later UPN now MyNetworkTV was the first independent station beating KICU by 5 days. Like the current Channel 36 which went originally as KGSC when they first signed on until 1981 when they recieved the KICU call letters, KICU had all those great syndicated programming as well. Unfortunately, when KMPH signed on in 1971, KICU went dark about 2 years afterward in 1969 and later on in 1990-1991, rechristened Channel 43 as KGMC-TV which was the first WB affiliate for Fresno/Visalia which had a LMA with KMPH and Pappas TV. That ended in 1997 when KNSO (one time sattellite of KTSF) out of Merced/Fresno took the WB affiliation away from KGMC. Their share of the WB ended in 2000-2001 when KMSG Channel 59 took over as the WB and their former affiliation as Telemundo moved to KNSO which is now an NBC Telemundo O&O. KMSG changed their call letters in 2001 to KFRE-TV Channel 59 cable 5 and is sister to Pappas Flagship KMPH-TV.
JackBauer112 said:
Before KAIL there was an earlier attempt on channel 53, and I think the call letters were KBID. There was some kind of questionable activities that led it to be shut down almost as soon as it went on the air. I don't know the details about that one, but I would love to hear them. Also KCOK-TV, which became KVVG was on the air in Tulare on channel 27 during the mid 1950's (serving that same Visalia/Bakersfield/Fresno area). It was a very ambitious effort, and I think it was tied to the Dumont network before that network folded. They aspired to do production for national distribution out of the Tulare studios, and a lot of money was spent on that basis. The revenue could not sustain that ambition, and they folded after a couple of years. KICU took over their mountain top transmitter site on Eshom Point in the Sierras. One problem for KCOK/KVVG and KICU was that transmitter location, while being higher, and allowing a longer transmission path than the Fresno stations, was far enough south of the Fresno transmitter sites that it required a significant rotation of the home antennas to get good reception. A lot of potential viewers weren't going to go to the trouble of doing that. It was even more of a problem for viewers that had their antennas aimed for reception of the Bakersfield stations.
KICU was a cobbled together operation, mostly put together with out-of-date equipment salvaged from KSAN in San Francisco. Their marginal studio to transmitter link caused a lot of annoying audio distortion problems, and must had driven away a lot of potential viewers. The one thing they spent some money on was state of the art Ampex video tape systems. One was in the studio, and one was on a converted Greyhound bus. With the bus they could do remotes, and tape commercials at the sponsors' places of business. Another potential plus for the station was the fact that they were running higher ERP (Effective Radiated Power) than the other stations in Fresno and Bakersfield (they boasted: "A million watts of power from the mile high tower"). Eshom point was at 5200 ft elevation, hence the "mile high tower".
Out-of-date equipment handicapped KICU. The film and slide camera chain used a single iconoscope camera tube, which required constant tweaking, and never provided the clarity of a more modern tube. The swinging mirrors for the slide/film switching caused a momintary slewing blur which was disconcerting. They just were not on a good technical footing to compete with the network stations.
Financially, they played a lot of shell games to stay on the air. The paychecks had a gummed label over the bank's name, and the rule of thumb was to "cash the checks somewhere that they don't know you". The sheriff showed up several times to reposses equipment. A couple of times it was the GE Klystrons out of the transmitter, and once it was the Ampex video tape machines. They drove away the Greyhound bus in lieu of ripping everything out of it, but there was a real mess in the control room when they ripped the tape deck and associated racks. Each time, the creditors were convinced to return the equipment, and the station was put back on the air in short order.
If anybody is interested in more stories about KICU, channel 43 in Visalia, I can keep going.
KBOS1965 said:
Please do, I love this stuff!
I Second The Motion. KEEP IT GOING! Also I am curious? Did FRESNO ever had a HORROR MOVIE TV HOST? SACRAMENTO did. So Did The BAY AREA! So Did LOS ANGELES and SAN DIEGO! Heck, Even small communities like SANTA ROSA (THE VALLEY GHOUL on KFTY-50) and EUREKA (SPOOKMAN DAN TUCKER on KVIQ-6). You'd think FRESNO would have had one unless they had a HOSTLESS HORROR MOVIE SHOW?Michael Rivers Kramer said:KBOS1965 said:
Please do, I love this stuff!
K
kenrayc
Guest
I would like to hear more stories about KICU also.I know one thing KAIL 53 ended up with KICU's Transmitter.
When KMPH went on the air it hurt KAIL as well,First of all there transmitter was located on the valley floor North-East of Clovis only covering the Metro Fresno-Clovis area.IN 1971 when KMPH went onthe air broadcasting from Blue Ridge Mountain just east of Visalia,like Eshom point also over 5000 ft. elevation and covered from the Grape Vine to Merced.Anyways KMPH got all of the first choices at syndicated programming KAIL went dark in 1972.Kail aquired KICU transmitter and it was moved to Meadow Lakes,Home to most Fresno Stations. KAIL went back on in 1976 using there transmitter Building as a broadcast facility,they didn't have a Studio to transmitter link til about 1978.I know this because I did volunteer work there running the commercials on VCR's.I did this for credit in a high school broadcast class,there still using there small studio in Clovis.
When KMPH went on the air it hurt KAIL as well,First of all there transmitter was located on the valley floor North-East of Clovis only covering the Metro Fresno-Clovis area.IN 1971 when KMPH went onthe air broadcasting from Blue Ridge Mountain just east of Visalia,like Eshom point also over 5000 ft. elevation and covered from the Grape Vine to Merced.Anyways KMPH got all of the first choices at syndicated programming KAIL went dark in 1972.Kail aquired KICU transmitter and it was moved to Meadow Lakes,Home to most Fresno Stations. KAIL went back on in 1976 using there transmitter Building as a broadcast facility,they didn't have a Studio to transmitter link til about 1978.I know this because I did volunteer work there running the commercials on VCR's.I did this for credit in a high school broadcast class,there still using there small studio in Clovis.
I'd also like to hear more stories about KICU 43. Does anyone know the details of how they got their programming to KSAN in San Francisco?
As a kid, I saved up to buy a UHF TV converter box and connected it to my parents 1958 vintage RCA B&W TV. This was sometime in the first half of 1967. Until I bought a roof top antenna a few months later, KSAN 32 was the only UHF station I could receive, so I watched it quite a bit.
If I remember correctly, KSAN TV was on the air weekdays from 1 pm until 4 or 5 pm, and something similar on weekends. They had a show called something like Industry on Parade, which showed short films produced by, and about, industry. I didn't find it terribly interesting, but watched because it was the only station that I could get on my new converter box. I'm pretty sure they didn't have any ads during this show. The shows themselves were ads of a sort. Kind of early infomercials.
They were rebroadcasting KICU 43 from Visalia. I remember the sign-on of KICU mentioning their transmitter site at Eshom Point. As a young RF geek, that was the best part of their short programming day
When 4 or 5 pm rolled around, channel 32 would go off the air. Occasionally they would stay on the air for a few more minutes and I'd see some of the more normal TV programming that KICU broadcast after the Industry on Parade show. But eventually someone, somewhere, would remember to flip a switch and channel 32 would be replaced by snow.
My notes from that time has KSAN TV running 18,500 watts from Mt. Sutro. Not much for a UHF station by today's standards.
From 1967 to 1973 I took some screen shots of the test patterns and station IDs of many of the Northern California TV stations I could receive, including KSAN, KNEW, KQEC and KCSM when they were on channel 14. I also collected a few newspaper articles that gives a little bit of the history of KSAN and KNEW.You can see them at http://www.geocities.com/lost_mesa/TV
I remember I also had a photo of the KICU 43 station ID, but I can't find it at the moment. It will be a few months before I can look through my boxes of old photos. If I do find it, I will post it there also.
As a kid, I saved up to buy a UHF TV converter box and connected it to my parents 1958 vintage RCA B&W TV. This was sometime in the first half of 1967. Until I bought a roof top antenna a few months later, KSAN 32 was the only UHF station I could receive, so I watched it quite a bit.
If I remember correctly, KSAN TV was on the air weekdays from 1 pm until 4 or 5 pm, and something similar on weekends. They had a show called something like Industry on Parade, which showed short films produced by, and about, industry. I didn't find it terribly interesting, but watched because it was the only station that I could get on my new converter box. I'm pretty sure they didn't have any ads during this show. The shows themselves were ads of a sort. Kind of early infomercials.
They were rebroadcasting KICU 43 from Visalia. I remember the sign-on of KICU mentioning their transmitter site at Eshom Point. As a young RF geek, that was the best part of their short programming day
When 4 or 5 pm rolled around, channel 32 would go off the air. Occasionally they would stay on the air for a few more minutes and I'd see some of the more normal TV programming that KICU broadcast after the Industry on Parade show. But eventually someone, somewhere, would remember to flip a switch and channel 32 would be replaced by snow.
My notes from that time has KSAN TV running 18,500 watts from Mt. Sutro. Not much for a UHF station by today's standards.
From 1967 to 1973 I took some screen shots of the test patterns and station IDs of many of the Northern California TV stations I could receive, including KSAN, KNEW, KQEC and KCSM when they were on channel 14. I also collected a few newspaper articles that gives a little bit of the history of KSAN and KNEW.You can see them at http://www.geocities.com/lost_mesa/TV
I remember I also had a photo of the KICU 43 station ID, but I can't find it at the moment. It will be a few months before I can look through my boxes of old photos. If I do find it, I will post it there also.
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