Knowledge is Power, so SPREAD THE KNOWLEDGE!

[Wildstyle K]

Ok, so we all know and see what's happening with this new generation dance sound. We see which way music is CURRENTLY headed in, and whether or not it's just a trend is irrelevant. Bottom line is

IT'S TIME TO ACT NOW!

It's ok to talk amongst the dance community or the dance section and keep the conversation all to ourselves and between us, but in reality, doing this doesn't do much. Imagine if every business or group or family only communicated and shared ideas WITHIN THEIR OWN GROUPS or circles of people, telling and sharing info that they already knew. No one new would ever learn anything or learn to think differently and see things from a different point of view!

Well, with that being said, I am here to announce a new task that we should all consider, and that is for us to step outside of our dance wall boundaries and redirect our normal every day conversation we hold within here outwardly to people in other sections of this board! Why do I use the words "we all"? Because WE ALL need to do so! Not only because there is more power in numbers, but also so it wont give off that affect that it's only the same people saying the same thing and they are so small in numbers that whatever they say has little to no value.

As of right now, all ideas we are thinking of and the discussion of things we see going on are all being discussed and thrown about within our own "private little circle". Meanwhile, everyone on the outside is continuing to think that dance is evil and denying the fact that sounds have changed and things are changing.

IN SCIENCE YOU LEARN EVERY ACTION CAUSES A REACTION.

Well, the same thing with music and music trends. Traditional dance formats may not have been successful in the past, but DOES THIS MEAN WE ALL GIVE UP AND ACCEPT? NO. Right now, you do see the changes, and there is a lot of ACTION taking place when it comes to the rise of electronica sounds. Well, this ACTION is causing a REACTION, and that REACTION is the fact that as the dance sound continues to rise, the theory that dance can never work is ALSO transforming into a FALSE THEORY. This is the time to try new things, experiment with NEW dance formula's, and think up new ways to at least get dance featured and heard by the general public - even if that means NOT making pure dance stations and making CHR Top 40 Dance-like type stuff! Or, even if it simply means encouraging people to increase the amount of dance (or acceptable "harmless" dance REMIXES) in mix shows.

IN LIFE, POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS, AND THERE ARE WAYS TO DO ANYTHING.

If we can manage to create a vehicle that can travel to various parts of the solar system or technology to almost accurately predict a 10 DAY FORECAST, then I'm sure we can do something as simple as figure out a way to WAKE PEOPLE UP TO THE SOUNDS OF DANCE - DURING A TIME WHERE HALF OF OUR WORK IS ALREADY HAPPENING NATURALLY. As I've been saying since 2005/2006 it can be done. it's just that we need more people to open their mind and think DIFFERENTLY, THEN take those ideas that result from the different thinking and redirect them OUTWARDLY to the NON members of the dance section.

As of right now, most of us are just sitting back and keeping quiet, and even if we do speak, we get out there to the other sections, try to play friendly and talk about OTHER THINGS. Well, it's time to stop. We need to get out there and be blunt. I don't care if they are rapping, singing, humming..etcon the electronic beat, bottom line is dance is currently IN, and regardless of what the haters say or how many riots or boycotts are started in the chr section because people are saying the word "dance", we need to be talking about it and marking it on a wall somewhere until it gets tattoed in people's brains that

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

It's time to wake CHR up and at least let it be known that at the very least, we will not stop talking.

Knowledge is Power, so
-------------------> SPREAD THE KNOWLEDGE!

Tell EVERYONE exactly what's going on TODAY. Notice the word TODAY! (Not how it used to be...etc) TODAY.

 

[TonySantiago]

It's ok to talk amongst the dance community or the dance section and keep the conversation all to ourselves and between us, but in reality, doing this doesn't do much. Imagine if every business or group or family only communicated and shared ideas WITHIN THEIR OWN GROUPS or circles of people, telling and sharing info that they already knew. No one new would ever learn anything or learn to think differently and see things from a different point of view!

Well, with that being said, I am here to announce a new task that we should all consider, and that is for us to step outside of our dance wall boundaries and redirect our normal every day conversation we hold within here outwardly to people in other sections of this board! Why do I use the words "we all"? Because WE ALL need to do so! Not only because there is more power in numbers, but also so it wont give off that affect that it's only the same people saying the same thing and they are so small in numbers that whatever they say has little to no value.

As of right now, all ideas we are thinking of and the discussion of things we see going on are all being discussed and thrown about within our own "private little circle". Meanwhile, everyone on the outside is continuing to think that dance is evil and denying the fact that sounds have changed and things are changing.

I did take a re-read on this. Here is the problem based on what I went through:

When Pulse 87 was launched, I was thinking that Philadelphia (outside of the areas covered by Z-89 and Super 91.7) could benefit from a dance station like Pulse. I posted something in there on the order of "Philly, you are next!" There was discussion going on there and it was VERY heated, to the point of death threats. Serious. God knows I've tried on that board and they're just BRUTAL and CLOSE-MINDED. However on some other boards, doing the same thing, the response was actually pretty decent. Boston, L.A. and Miami were pretty open to things. Even Albany seemed opened.

Just be careful on HOW to approach this. Some people may not like dance but seem more open about things than other boards where the hate is TOO adamant. In that sense, stay away from Philadelphia. Let Brett deal with 'em since he's in the area.

 

[TonySantiago]

Reading other parts of your post KDM, I have to say this.....

I handle things in the manner that I do, especially within the past 6 months, because you have execs in the radio industry that think we are NUTS! I've heard this first-hand.

If you throw "vinegar" at people, they will be turned off by you despite your good intentions. I avoid doing that at all costs. Yes, speak your thoughts but do so in a positive and proactive manner because THAT will get you further than just being blunt. There is a "system" out there in the radio industry and I feel that by working WITH that "system" and doing so without anger or angst, we can make things happen.

When 92.3 Now played Dennis Ferrer's "Hey Hey", I thanked them! I didn't "force the issue" to do anything radical such as change to a dance format. If 92.3 Now (or any CHR station in the USA) adds another dance track in their CHR rotation, then as a community we have to be supportive of that. In that sense, we have to get OUR graces built up so as people can see us (the dance fans) and RESPECT what we're trying to do, even if they don't like the music. Spewing off on other boards and shoving dance down people's throats (especially WITH that hatred) isn't the answer. We have to build those blocks and make things happen slowly but surely, but positively!

THAT is how we'll make our mark known. I've been fighting for our music for over 15 years. And while in the beginnings I've received tons of "hate" (including death threats), I've also helped gain respect on behalf of our music . Keep it positive bro. Please.

TS

 

[Wildstyle K]

Some very good points. I didn't even think about some of those issues. However, there is a difference between being nice and being respectful (Ask any wonan!). What we must figure out is; What is going to work towards dance music haters? Firmness with proven facts and evidence to back your statements, or gentleness? Well, our President was friendly, negotiating with terrorists/allies.. then they shook hands and he left. Then afterwards, they (the allies) laughed at him, called him names, and shot off a missile to somewhere. Well, I'm thinking... we must find a way to be respectful & positive, but blunt.

Think about in all areas in life where people refuse to listen;
What happens? Time out, spanking, suspension, fines, jail time, war on terror....etc. Something that MAKES people wake up and think, even if they don't desire to. It may not always work in all circumstances, but surely does force some people to think, negotiate, and consider new ideas.

Well, this method must also be applied to the dance community - but in a different way, if were going to wake people up in America. If we can find a way to be respectful, but blunt, it's possible that we can get our message across respectfully, but in such a way that we are heard. The saying:

DIPLOMACY IS THE ABILITY TO TELL A PERSON TO GO TO HELL IN SUCH A NICE WAY THAT HE LOOKS FORWARD TO THE TRIP

is a perfect example of being respectful, but blunt, without coming across as nutty. Clever, but not nutty.

With that being said, we can keep it positive, but in such a way that they know we mean business and there is going to be no "jeering and missile launching afterwards", and no backing down at the first sign of talk back against "our" sound. A few things we can do starting right now:

- Show them exactly what's happening today with music, and use facts and proof to support it.
- Get other people outside discussing it at some level (so it will be on their minds as they notice what we are saying IS unfolding on many of their own stations that they're programming).
- Don't push too hard on pure dance or ALL dance, but just focus on CONSIDERING dance tracks that are CHR material.
- no more arguing on what isn't "good enough" to be dance and just embracing "their" sound as much as we want "ours" to be.
- Get a feel of who is open, somewhat open, neutral, and not open to the dance sound.
- Start working / discussing ideas with the people who are AT THE LEAST neutral.

Why? Because many people who are neutral only need a little convincing before trying something. Notice that most of these programmers do have some level of choice on what they play (which explains certain folks conforming towards their markets or playing / not playing certain things due to their own personal tastes whenever they can). A lot of people simply just don't THINK of dance music and may consider a dance track that is safe and friendly to their station / market (or even mix show) if someone made them consider or think about it, and you never know where it could go from there. Have you heard those artists who blew up because ONE dj somewhere played it and it ended up becoming a huge regional demand, eventually going national? Well, as of right now, I see almost 5 - 0% dance talk going on outside the dance section, yet a lot of CHR, URBAN and RHYTHMIC talk happening here! Of course, with all the other discussion going on in other areas (some even getting off the topic of music and radio all together), no one is thinking about dance! This is why we ALL need to at least just start showing up and talking about it. Not asking or demanding, but just bringing it up and making suggestions as if we've been long time friends in their sections of the board! Remember, no pushing for ALL dance, but just getting people to consider SOME dance - since this is exactly which direction we're headed in for now, anyway. We could even "get together with" other station programmers + DJ's who are already featuring or being friendly to dance in ways and ask them to help us form ideas on how to spread the knowledge, or introduce ways in which we could invite others to willingly jump on board. Lets take the modernization of technology and use it to our advantage! Artists and producers WHO HAVE NEVER MET are putting together entire productions! Imagine how far our ideas could go if shared amongst those others who share the same passion and have their own version of getting the sound exposed to the mainstream (via specialty shows...etc)! We could also suggest ways to help them find clever ways to introduce the new music to their audience with the least amount of rejection possible, and of course - without doing dumb stuff like "bump it or dump it" - because we all know how that's going to go the first time around 80+ % of the time!

Most people with an idea will not go any further once they find some level of success. It's time for us to reach out to those people (LIKE KMVQ 99.7 San Fransisco) who currently have successful dance shows on their station, share ideas, and be creative and innovative to the point where someone else sees what they are doing, then sees what is going on in general with music and thinks "great idea! We should try this as well.." and so on and so on. This is called "manually creating a trend within a trend". Lets take "cliques in radio" and mix up people who share the same ideas to make new "inter-cliques" where people across the nation work together (somewhat similar to how Power 106 and Hot 97 are known as "sisters").
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lastly, I'm sure dance music lovers couldn't be anymore nutty than what happens in the hip hop community. Taking people's lives or preaching a certain level of ignorance, THEN getting upset over the discrimination and stereotypes that result - without changing the behavior that's creating the stereotype in the first place, now THAT'S nutty!

 

[Wildstyle K]

That's another good idea. Thanking and showing appreciation as we make progress, towards anyone who is helping us move up in any way. This also means paying attention and seeing who is helping us because if people play dance tracks and receive no appreciation for it, unless they are or are turning into fans, they may not continue to feel a need to play it. I'm sure the every day talk of the town isn't "dance is evil it will never work" on a daily basis. This is why I feel like with dance just being in people's minds in general, it could have an effect. You tend to utilize things that are in your mind, as oppose to things you are not thinking about. This is why I say we all get out there and talk about it, this way the word "dance" will be seen out and about across the boards and in people's minds on a normal basis. What happens when this happens? Well, at the very least, they may hear certain hits on the radio while the term "dance" is on their minds, and eventually it will lead to an awakening, where they WAKE UP and think "w-wait a minute here, but (they're right) this IS dance......" (Imagine the possibilities this awakening could lead to...)

Think about what usually happens when people make a realization that starts with "wait a minute here......" It almost always turns in to some sort of active thought that eventually leads to SOMETHING NEW HAPPENING...

 

[TonySantiago]

That's another good idea. Thanking and showing appreciation as we make progress, towards anyone who is helping us move up in any way.

Dude, that has been my "modus operandi" for the past 16 years, off and on, that I've done the coalition! You win with "sugar" and NOT "vinegar".

 

[TonySantiago]

I gotta break this down because it IS a lot to go with here.

Some very good points. I didn't even think about some of those issues. However, there is a difference between being nice and being respectful (Ask any wonan!). What we must figure out is; What is going to work towards dance music haters? Firmness with proven facts and evidence to back your statements, or gentleness? Well, our President was friendly, negotiating with terrorists/allies.. then they shook hands and he left. Then afterwards, they (the allies) laughed at him, called him names, and shot off a missile to somewhere. Well, I'm thinking... we must find a way to be respectful & positive, but blunt.

Hear me out. Really. Read this over and over again if you have to.....DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE HATERS! Are those that "hate" going to help you? Of course not. I've taken so many "punches" from those that don't understand, hate, ignorant that I don't feel a thing anymore because I've been numb to it all. You're never going to change them and they will always have their agenda. The thing I've done is to keep my head up and keep going because for me, my concern is about the dance fans, artists, clubs, promoters, industry. And if you come off too harsh and blunt, you WILL turn people off.

DIPLOMACY IS THE ABILITY TO TELL A PERSON TO GO TO HELL IN SUCH A NICE WAY THAT HE LOOKS FORWARD TO THE TRIP

Who said they have to go to hell? They can stay closed in their "box". What do I care, we move for us!

- Show them exactly what's happening today with music, and use facts and proof to support it.
- Get other people outside discussing it at some level (so it will be on their minds as they notice what we are saying IS unfolding on many of their own stations that they're programming).
- Don't push too hard on pure dance or ALL dance, but just focus on CONSIDERING dance tracks that are CHR material.
- no more arguing on what isn't "good enough" to be dance and just embracing "their" sound as much as we want "ours" to be.
- Get a feel of who is open, somewhat open, neutral, and not open to the dance sound.
- Start working / discussing ideas with the people who are AT THE LEAST neutral.

With all due respect, KDM...what do you think I am doing????? You read my posts and how I handle things I've done this FOR YEARS as a 27 year old "kid" way before the Internet when I had people send me self addressed stamped envelopes (here's MY proof...a New York Daily News article that goes back to 1995! http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/1995/02/09/1995-02-09_trying_to_give_dance_a_chance.html The coalition did NOT start up yesterday.

Why? Because many people who are neutral only need a little convincing before trying something. Notice that most of these programmers do have some level of choice on what they play (which explains certain folks conforming towards their markets or playing / not playing certain things due to their own personal tastes whenever they can). A lot of people simply just don't THINK of dance music and may consider a dance track that is safe and friendly to their station / market (or even mix show) if someone made them consider or think about it, and you never know where it could go from there. Have you heard those artists who blew up because ONE dj somewhere played it and it ended up becoming a huge regional demand, eventually going national? Well, as of right now, I see almost 5 - 0% dance talk going on outside the dance section, yet a lot of CHR, URBAN and RHYTHMIC talk happening here! Of course, with all the other discussion going on in other areas (some even getting off the topic of music and radio all together), no one is thinking about dance! This is why we ALL need to at least just start showing up and talking about it. Not asking or demanding, but just bringing it up and making suggestions as if we've been long time friends in their sections of the board! Remember, no pushing for ALL dance, but just getting people to consider SOME dance - since this is exactly which direction we're headed in for now, anyway. We could even "get together with" other station programmers + DJ's who are already featuring or being friendly to dance in ways and ask them to help us form ideas on how to spread the knowledge, or introduce ways in which we could invite others to willingly jump on board. Lets take the modernization of technology and use it to our advantage! Artists and producers WHO HAVE NEVER MET are putting together entire productions! Imagine how far our ideas could go if shared amongst those others who share the same passion and have their own version of getting the sound exposed to the mainstream (via specialty shows...etc)! We could also suggest ways to help them find clever ways to introduce the new music to their audience with the least amount of rejection possible, and of course - without doing dumb stuff like "bump it or dump it" - because we all know how that's going to go the first time around 80+ % of the time!

Once again, what have I been doing? That's why we have a coalition, as a means of togetherness, support and advocacy. I will lay myself on the train tracks for you guys! Thats why on the Facebook group we have discussions where everyone can freely express their thoughts. We take those thoughts and others to the "mainstream" and work on positive solutions that yield results that can benefit everyone.

Most people with an idea will not go any further once they find some level of success. It's time for us to reach out to those people (LIKE KMVQ 99.7 San Fransisco) who currently have successful dance shows on their station, share ideas, and be creative and innovative to the point where someone else sees what they are doing, then sees what is going on in general with music and thinks "great idea! We should try this as well.." and so on and so on. This is called "manually creating a trend within a trend". Lets take "cliques in radio" and mix up people who share the same ideas to make new "inter-cliques" where people across the nation work together (somewhat similar to how Power 106 and Hot 97 are known as "sisters").
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lastly, I'm sure dance music lovers couldn't be anymore nutty than what happens in the hip hop community. Taking people's lives or preaching a certain level of ignorance, THEN getting upset over the discrimination and stereotypes that result - without changing the behavior that's creating the stereotype in the first place, now THAT'S nutty!

No...dividing people for the same cause is NUTTY and that's what I am viewing here. While I am for local areas forming coalitions like the one I have, we STILL are all united under one "umbrella"...for the positivity of dance music. Basically, what you are suggesting is what I've been trying my darndest to do over the past 16 years. I just don't go to clubs to dance...I observe. I listen. I hear all sides. We take what we do and push for our music and keep it positive and proactive.

People who know me always see me smile! My FB pictures have me smile! Does it means things are perfect for us? Absolutely not. But I will keep smiling!

Also...short IS sweet. Keep it simple and you'll get more results

TS

 

[Dancerev889]

So what records do you want to push towards a CHR? Im looking at Mediabase of the dance stations and also on FMQB and with a very few dance records there is not much difference. So again what needs to be pushed? What I am hearing out of the pop world is up beat singles that to me sound like a dance record. Im looking at one major market CHR's playlist and I see La Roux as the number two most played. La Roux started on the dance stations. Then I see Lady Gaga, same thing. David Guetta is in the Top 25 and he has 4 records in the top 50. Then I look at this stations ratings. The last three months they have gone up. So I ask the question what records do you want to push towards a CHR?

 

[DJ_Perry]

wow, i think i have a headache! Too many words....

 

[TonySantiago]

wow, i think i have a headache! Too many words....

Short is sweet......

 

[JohnParker]

wow, i think i have a headache! Too many words....

Short is sweet......

It's also readable. When I see these long winded posts I just skip over them. And this is coming from someone that writes long posts!

 

[TonySantiago]

wow, i think i have a headache! Too many words....

Short is sweet......

It's also readable. When I see these long winded posts I just skip over them. And this is coming from someone that writes long posts!

Heck, I'm just saving him from going to other boards whereas if he posts this, they get VERY critical and heated. I'll never forget Philadelphia as long as I live.

 

[d21ofnj]

wow, i think i have a headache! Too many words....

Short is sweet......

It's also readable. When I see these long winded posts I just skip over them. And this is coming from someone that writes long posts!

Heck, I'm just saving him from going to other boards whereas if he posts this, they get VERY critical and heated. I'll never forget Philadelphia as long as I live.

Guess there was a reason for me not to have signed up at that time ;D

 

[Wildstyle K]

So what records do you want to push towards a CHR? Im looking at Mediabase of the dance stations and also on FMQB and with a very few dance records there is not much difference. So again what needs to be pushed? What I am hearing out of the pop world is up beat singles that to me sound like a dance record. Im looking at one major market CHR's playlist and I see La Roux as the number two most played. La Roux started on the dance stations. Then I see Lady Gaga, same thing. David Guetta is in the Top 25 and he has 4 records in the top 50. Then I look at this stations ratings. The last three months they have gone up. So I ask the question what records do you want to push towards a CHR?

Many / some of these established dance hits that seem to be played by choice on certain stations. Example; WPOW Power 96 plays Deadmau5 and Kaskade. Obviously, that has to be the PD CHOOSING to test and use these type of things because he knows he can. While it may not be a requirement, it's also not discouraged either. This is what I mean by CONSIDERATION. We don't necessarily have to use those specific tracks, but anything people think should be tested that "normal" people wouldn't research for themselves. Most people are not thinking about dance, so wont even bother to think about what Power 96 is doing... So, getting out there and talking about certain things outside of the dance section will get people thinking and searching, and may get some to even consider testing some things that could use some mainstream help. Another example: Lets say you're talking or replying to something in the CHR.. or even Detroit or Idaho section (ANYWHERE) and you somehow conveniently happen to slip in a dance track or something. Well, anytime you do this or drop a link somewhere, AT LEAST ONE PERSON is always going to check it out. You never know who that person may be or how far they will go with it if they like it. Example? Well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw81OihFPx4 Sounds very CHR friendly to me while also being completely DANCE friendly as well. This type of stuff will only help encourage more crossover material... and lastly, I do know the producer of this particular track is currently in the process of pushing it to radio. Which format specifically? That I don't know.

It's ok to wait for dance singles to make their way to chr, but it's also good to help it by spreading word around about certain tracks and having people discover it - especially if forums like this exist. Power 106 and Power 96 seem to be very good at at least promoting certain dance tracks whenever they can. Both Power 106 and Power 96 know that

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER....

 

[Dancerev889]

So what records do you want to push towards a CHR? Im looking at Mediabase of the dance stations and also on FMQB and with a very few dance records there is not much difference. So again what needs to be pushed? What I am hearing out of the pop world is up beat singles that to me sound like a dance record. Im looking at one major market CHR's playlist and I see La Roux as the number two most played. La Roux started on the dance stations. Then I see Lady Gaga, same thing. David Guetta is in the Top 25 and he has 4 records in the top 50. Then I look at this stations ratings. The last three months they have gone up. So I ask the question what records do you want to push towards a CHR?

Many / some of these established dance hits that seem to be played by choice on certain stations. Example; WPOW Power 96 plays Deadmau5 and Kaskade. Obviously, that has to be the PD CHOOSING to test and use these type of things because he knows he can. While it may not be a requirement, it's also not discouraged either. This is what I mean by CONSIDERATION. We don't necessarily have to use those specific tracks, but anything people think should be tested that "normal" people wouldn't research for themselves. Most people are not thinking about dance, so wont even bother to think about what Power 96 is doing... So, getting out there and talking about certain things outside of the dance section will get people thinking and searching, and may get some to even consider testing some things that could use some mainstream help. Another example: Lets say you're talking or replying to something in the CHR.. or even Detroit or Idaho section (ANYWHERE) and you somehow conveniently happen to slip in a dance track or something. Well, anytime you do this or drop a link somewhere, AT LEAST ONE PERSON is always going to check it out. You never know who that person may be or how far they will go with it if they like it. Example? Well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw81OihFPx4 Sounds very CHR friendly to me while also being completely DANCE friendly as well. This type of stuff will only help encourage more crossover material... and lastly, I do know the producer of this particular track is currently in the process of pushing it to radio. Which format specifically? That I don't know.

It's ok to wait for dance singles to make their way to chr, but it's also good to help it by spreading word around about certain tracks and having people discover it - especially if forums like this exist. Power 106 and Power 96 seem to be very good at at least promoting certain dance tracks whenever they can. Both Power 106 and Power 96 know that

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER....

How do you know if a PD is even considering a dance single? Have you sat down with CHR PD's and talked to them? I guarantee dance singles have been pitched to CHR. Trust me PD's are thinking about dance music but they are looking at what records are going to keep the majority of the listeners listening.

You say knowledge is power, but I honestly dont think you understand how CHR works. Again may I suggest coming to the DJ Expo and sit in on a radio panel

 

[TonySantiago]

So what records do you want to push towards a CHR? Im looking at Mediabase of the dance stations and also on FMQB and with a very few dance records there is not much difference. So again what needs to be pushed? What I am hearing out of the pop world is up beat singles that to me sound like a dance record. Im looking at one major market CHR's playlist and I see La Roux as the number two most played. La Roux started on the dance stations. Then I see Lady Gaga, same thing. David Guetta is in the Top 25 and he has 4 records in the top 50. Then I look at this stations ratings. The last three months they have gone up. So I ask the question what records do you want to push towards a CHR?

Many / some of these established dance hits that seem to be played by choice on certain stations. Example; WPOW Power 96 plays Deadmau5 and Kaskade. Obviously, that has to be the PD CHOOSING to test and use these type of things because he knows he can. While it may not be a requirement, it's also not discouraged either. This is what I mean by CONSIDERATION. We don't necessarily have to use those specific tracks, but anything people think should be tested that "normal" people wouldn't research for themselves. Most people are not thinking about dance, so wont even bother to think about what Power 96 is doing... So, getting out there and talking about certain things outside of the dance section will get people thinking and searching, and may get some to even consider testing some things that could use some mainstream help. Another example: Lets say you're talking or replying to something in the CHR.. or even Detroit or Idaho section (ANYWHERE) and you somehow conveniently happen to slip in a dance track or something. Well, anytime you do this or drop a link somewhere, AT LEAST ONE PERSON is always going to check it out. You never know who that person may be or how far they will go with it if they like it. Example? Well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw81OihFPx4 Sounds very CHR friendly to me while also being completely DANCE friendly as well. This type of stuff will only help encourage more crossover material... and lastly, I do know the producer of this particular track is currently in the process of pushing it to radio. Which format specifically? That I don't know.

It's ok to wait for dance singles to make their way to chr, but it's also good to help it by spreading word around about certain tracks and having people discover it - especially if forums like this exist. Power 106 and Power 96 seem to be very good at at least promoting certain dance tracks whenever they can. Both Power 106 and Power 96 know that

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER....

How do you know if a PD is even considering a dance single? Have you sat down with CHR PD's and talked to them? I guarantee dance singles have been pitched to CHR. Trust me PD's are thinking about dance music but they are looking at what records are going to keep the majority of the listeners listening.

You say knowledge is power, but I honestly dont think you understand how CHR works. Again may I suggest coming to the DJ Expo and sit in on a radio panel

I gotta agree with Brett. I may take chances on a couple of tracks but I have to also maintain the integrity of my show. If a track stinks, then it stinks. I'm not thinking about me, I'm thinking about my audience.

 

[Wildstyle K]

How do you know if a PD is even considering a dance single?  Have you sat down with CHR PD's and talked to them?  I guarantee dance singles have been pitched to CHR.  Trust me PD's are thinking about dance music but they are looking at what records are going to keep the majority of the listeners listening. 

You say knowledge is power, but I honestly dont think you understand how CHR works.  Again may I suggest coming to the DJ Expo and sit in on a radio panel

For example; What I'm getting at is as simple as the following example.

EXAMPLE OF PICKY PD'S VS CREATIVELY OPEN PD'S
KMVA - the PD there is not interested in dance. Therefore, he's not going to research or care to look at anything that's dance voluntarily. Just like there are some who may choose not to pay any mind to any dance single that isn't mandatory, I'm sure that there are others out there who are not against or for dance, who would not explore certain things on their own. That's why I say spread the talk around and let it be seen that people ARE at the least talking about dance throughout the radio boards. Even if it gets ONE person to act upon it and probably try one thing, that is better than nothing. Just talking about it and bringing it up in other portions of the boards cannot hurt anyone. It's not about playing tracks that stink or being psychically in tune with what PD's are thinking or considering. It's about bringing more dance to people's attention then letting them decide whether or not they want to explore it for themselves. We have certain PD's who are more than willing to explore and add things or even find a way to make something work - just to support the sound, whether or not they personally like that particular song or not. Then we have others who will refuse it - unless it's a "mandatory" undeniable hit. By basic human nature, I'm sure there are also others who are just doing the PD job by the basics, keeping it safe and playing it by the rules to get by. If we can encourage some people to "be more creative" with how they format their playlists, that alone will help.

HITS THAT ARE "OPTIONAL"
Another example: There was one station I knew of playing Craig David's "insomnia". That obviously wasn't a mandatory huge mass hit single, but he knew it also wouldn't hurt to add it. If the old program director were there, he would've never even added it. I've talked to some PD's who wont play something they don't like, and they've admitted "yes I know others are doing it and I could add it, but you would never catch me playing that... " There are even some who will deny radio remixes if they don't like it. I believe if there are some who will choose based on personal preference whenever there's a loop hole, then there are also those who can be persuaded to try and consider new things that are safe for them that they probably would never consider if no one brought it up.

**TIMES WHEN I HAD THINGS THAT WOULD'VE OTHERWISE GONE UNNOTICED PLAYED (without even seeing PD):
Believe it or not, I've even had certain DJ's (not even PD's) add things into their mixshows that they would've never known about if I didn't tell them about it. I mean, all they really had to do was listen to what KYLD was doing and COMMUNICATE WITH THE LIKE MINDED and find out for themselves what others were doing, but... they were in their own circle until I literally walked up to the station, gave them a list, then next thing I know he bought (some) of the records and they were played ever since - within TWO DAYS of me giving him the list. Keep in mind this wasn't even the PD I talked to... The PD probably didn't care as long as it fit the format of the show he was supposed to provide at that time and the records were dance radio/rhythmic mix show material. **I didn't give him a list based on personal likes, but stuff based on what I knew was appropriate based on other factors.. I'm sure he also shared some of those records with their buddies who were also responsible for hosting the dance shows that station carried, and to some extent, WORD GOT AROUND. Now people no longer had to be in San Fransisco hearing KYLD to hear those dance tracks and discover them, AND they even ended up playing stuff that even Energy didn't know about - until a new PD came in and introduced those SAME records - in REGULAR rotation! I could get into other examples of things like this, but I think this is enough for now. Talking does make a difference! Assuming it will never work "that way" normally results in nothing new happening.

 

[TonySantiago]

I will say it again......BE CAREFUL

KDM, if you're going to do this on other boards, DON'T associate the coalition with it. I'm doing things in a manner that I feel is positive and proactive and can better serve all of us as a whole, and being TOTALLY inclusive on our community in terms of the concerns and issues.

In other words...this is YOUR thing. Not something I would recommend, for the record.

Good luck.

 

[Wildstyle K]

It's easy to conveniently slip in dance stuff in other boards without doing it in a threatening way!

Check this out:

Poster 1
"bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Usher bla bla bla chr rhythmic bla bla bla top 40"

KDM 7000
"hmmm, that song really sounds a lot like this: (insert link here)"

There is no way people can feel threatened by this "slick" response (And best of all, you can do it all in one small one liner post!) And this is only ONE example of all the slick ways you could get people to come across and discover new things - but of course do so in a proper manner. Don't link to things that are so outrageous that even pirate radio wouldn't play it. Keep it safe, or better yet, make sure they are things that CAN work on certain formats or mixshows.

Also keep in mind that these examples I've given so far are ideas geared specifically towards these boards. Not out at an actual radio station in person. If a lot of this type of things starts going on across the boards, a lot of people will begin to....well, see things a bit differently - on their own. That's just ONE example...

By the way, what I'm recommending I haven't even done yet, so if you're worried that I'm recommending or talking about doing something I've written or done in the past, that's not what I'm talking about doing at all. Those examples I used in my previous post were just things I mentioned to let people know that thinking outside the box and being clever can work - if done correctly.

 

[Krash Kelly]

May I make an observation? I come to this board from time to time, and there is always a lively conversation about how to further the dance 'cause'. However the dance community seems to act in a much more 'exclusive' than 'inclusive' manner. We should be embracing every dance outlet, no matter how 'pure' the product may be, what the distribution method is or where it's being done.

I say this as a PD that has programmed a Dance HD2 station for over 3 years, out of passion. I know we have listeners, I hear from them and I see the streaming numbers - however the dance community outside of my market seems to care less. Trust me, I am fine with that personally but it doesn't seem to be a good way to further a coalition.

Just an observation from someone on the outside looking in.