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KNSD NBC7/39 & KNTV

K

kibb

Guest
Hello Everyone.

I was just curious, why does KNSD's NBCs O&O call itself "NBC 7/39" when KNTV first became the Bay Area's NBC Affiliate, the later O&O, called itself NBC3 for a while instead of NBC 3/11. They both were on a different channel on most of cable than their over the air signal.

Kibb
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

> Hello Everyone.
>
> I was just curious, why does KNSD's NBCs O&O call itself
> "NBC 7/39" when KNTV first became the Bay Area's NBC
> Affiliate, the later O&O, called itself NBC3 for a while
> instead of NBC 3/11. They both were on a different channel
> on most of cable than their over the air signal.
>
> Kibb
>

In San Diego, the predominant cable carriers have KNSD at ch 7. KNSD's off-the-air channel is 39.

In the Bay Area, same thing. KNTV is ch 11 off-the-air, and the predominant cable carrier has them at ch 3. IIRC, KNTV stopped using NBC3 to avoid confusion with Sacramento NBC station KCRA, which is off-the-air ch 3.

It's fairly common for a station to identify themselves by a cable channel. KASW 61 Phoenix was first WB61, then WB6/61, and now just WB6. Both of the major cable providers have them on ch 6.

Some TV stations, such as WYOU in Scranton PA and WBRE in Wilkes-Barre PA, use only their call letters to identify themselves, without any channel number.

With DTV, we now have virtual channels, where stations ID by their old analog channel assignment, regardless of where their actual DTV channel assignment is.<P ID="signature">______________
Dave</P>
 
Re: KNTV

> > KNTV obviously decided that the "NBC3" branding was a mistake. In the Bay Area, it had been typical to give top billing to the broadcast channel, i.e.: "UPN44/Cable 12," or "WB20, Cable 13." As I remember, there may have also been confusion in the northern East Bay Area from people who received both KCRA (NBC broadcast Channel 3 in Sacramento), and KNTV over the air. Now, satellite channel assignments make for even more confusion, because they're not consistent with the cable designations. That's no doubt why number branding is being increasingly dropped for designations like "UPN Bay Area" or "the Bay Area's WB." I know KTLA has developed a strong following on satellite, and they seem to have dropped the "5" from their branding.

I've always wondered why KNTV wanted to change to the Channel 3 assignment on Comcast, and didn't want to stick with 11 for simplicity sake. I figured it was because Channel 3 is everybody's default when they first turn on their TV - so KNTV is always the first thing they'll see.


Hello Everyone.
> >
> > I was just curious, why does KNSD's NBCs O&O call itself
> > "NBC 7/39" when KNTV first became the Bay Area's NBC
> > Affiliate, the later O&O, called itself NBC3 for a while
> > instead of NBC 3/11. They both were on a different
> channel
> > on most of cable than their over the air signal.
> >
> > Kibb
> >
>
> In San Diego, the predominant cable carriers have KNSD at ch
> 7. KNSD's off-the-air channel is 39.
>
> In the Bay Area, same thing. KNTV is ch 11 off-the-air, and
> the predominant cable carrier has them at ch 3. IIRC, KNTV
> stopped using NBC3 to avoid confusion with Sacramento NBC
> station KCRA, which is off-the-air ch 3.
>
> It's fairly common for a station to identify themselves by a
> cable channel. KASW 61 Phoenix was first WB61, then WB6/61,
> and now just WB6. Both of the major cable providers have
> them on ch 6.
>
> Some TV stations, such as WYOU in Scranton PA and WBRE in
> Wilkes-Barre PA, use only their call letters to identify
> themselves, without any channel number.
>
> With DTV, we now have virtual channels, where stations ID by
> their old analog channel assignment, regardless of where
> their actual DTV channel assignment is.
>
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

> In San Diego, the predominant cable carriers have KNSD at ch
> 7. KNSD's off-the-air channel is 39.

Don't forget with San Diego, almost the entire market (about 75-80%, last checked), which is only one county--San Diego, is equipped with cable and/or satellite television. The three cable operators in San Diego--Adelphia, Time Warner, and Cox--all have the major stations placed on the same channel assignments across the board. The other major UHFs have these assignments: KPBS-15 on 11, XHUPN-49 on 13, KUSI-51 on 9, and KSWB-69 on 5.
 
That might have been the case once ...

> I've always wondered why KNTV wanted to change to the
> Channel 3 assignment on Comcast, and didn't want to stick
> with 11 for simplicity sake. I figured it was because
> Channel 3 is everybody's default when they first turn on
> their TV - so KNTV is always the first thing they'll see.

I had a television set that was manufactured in 1983, and it always defaulted to channel 2 when it was turned on. In fact, I remember my cable system offering set-top converter boxes with a channel 2 output instead of channel 3 for people whose sets did that, so it can't have been uncommon.

The last two sets I have owned go back to the last channel tuned when they are turned on.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re:

> I've always wondered why KNTV wanted to change to the
> Channel 3 assignment on Comcast, and didn't want to stick
> with 11 for simplicity sake. I figured it was because
> Channel 3 is everybody's default when they first turn on
> their TV - so KNTV is always the first thing they'll see.

I think the actual reason was Channel 3 would put them right between KTVU and KRON on cable systems. The "NBC 3" branding was horrible (especially the original 3 typeface). However, RudeHoney did design a new graphics package for the old "NBC 3 News" that actually looked a lot better, but they made the switch to NBC11 before it could debut.

[edit: grammatical error]
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

So KNSD is not required to identify themselves as NBC7/39? I just found it interesting that they didn't just choose either NBC7 or NBC39 as KNTV did.


> In San Diego, the predominant cable carriers have KNSD at ch
> 7. KNSD's off-the-air channel is 39.
>
> In the Bay Area, same thing. KNTV is ch 11 off-the-air, and
> the predominant cable carrier has them at ch 3. IIRC, KNTV
> stopped using NBC3 to avoid confusion with Sacramento NBC
> station KCRA, which is off-the-air ch 3.
>
> It's fairly common for a station to identify themselves by a
> cable channel. KASW 61 Phoenix was first WB61, then WB6/61,
> and now just WB6. Both of the major cable providers have
> them on ch 6.
>
> Some TV stations, such as WYOU in Scranton PA and WBRE in
> Wilkes-Barre PA, use only their call letters to identify
> themselves, without any channel number.
>
> With DTV, we now have virtual channels, where stations ID by
> their old analog channel assignment, regardless of where
> their actual DTV channel assignment is.
>
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

I believe that since San Diego's NBC 7/39 is so well recognized that they do not want to change.

As for KNTV. Before NBC officially took over, the previous management knew that most of the bay area would get the station via cable. So they decided to brand themselves as NBC3, plus since NBC was on channel 4, it would be easier for viewers to change the channel to cable 3.

When NBC3 officially became an NBC O&O, they scrapped all NBC3 references and quickly changed it to NBC11.

Had KNTV been very well known as NBC3 or NBC3/11, changes probably would not have happened.
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

> I believe that since San Diego's NBC 7/39 is so well
> recognized that they do not want to change.
>
Was this also the case before Channel 39 changed to NBC from ABC?


<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

> As for KNTV. Before NBC officially took over, the previous
> management knew that most of the bay area would get the
> station via cable. So they decided to brand themselves as
> NBC3, plus since NBC was on channel 4, it would be easier
> for viewers to change the channel to cable 3.
>
> When NBC3 officially became an NBC O&O, they scrapped all
> NBC3 references and quickly changed it to NBC11.

False. NBC "3" was a Granite idea, but NBC wasn't in a major hurry to change the branding of KNTV from NBC "3" to NBC11. Granite surrendered control of the station to NBC shortly after they announced the purchase (remember, Steve Schwaid was brought in from Philly before the affiliation switch actually took place on 01/01/02) in December 2001.

NBC had Novocom make the original NBC "3" News graphics package, which was produced by Novocom, not on the cheap by the NBC Arthouse. Under Granite, the original plan was to keep the old NewsChannel 11 Giant Octopus graphics, modified with the NBC "3" logo. So, NBC sunk some serious money into the NBC "3" brand--making it clear that they were, at first, warm to the idea.

The NBC11 branding did not debut until September 2002; NBC officially became the owner of KNTV in March or April, if my memory serves me right. Either way, the NBC11 rebranding didn't happen "quickly."

> Had KNTV been very well known as NBC3 or NBC3/11, changes
> probably would not have happened.
>
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

> I believe that since San Diego's NBC 7/39 is so well
> recognized that they do not want to change.

The 7/39 moniker goes back something like 20 years. I remember it was 7/39 when I first moved to SD in 1988. I thought it was strange at first, then got used to it.
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

> > I believe that since San Diego's NBC 7/39 is so well
> > recognized that they do not want to change.
> >
> Was this also the case before Channel 39 changed to NBC from
> ABC?
>
If you take a look at historical photos from KNSD's website--they just celebrated their 40th anniversary in November--it showed that Channel 39 was on cable channel 3, at least during its ABC years. However, it doesn't show when they switched to cable 7, my guess is sometimes during the 80s, before the call letter changeover from KCST to KNSD.
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

> > In San Diego, the predominant cable carriers have KNSD at
> ch
> > 7. KNSD's off-the-air channel is 39.
>
> Don't forget with San Diego, almost the entire market (about
> 75-80%, last checked), which is only one county--San Diego,
> is equipped with cable and/or satellite television. The
> three cable operators in San Diego--Adelphia, Time Warner,
> and Cox--all have the major stations placed on the same
> channel assignments across the board. The other major UHFs
> have these assignments: KPBS-15 on 11, XHUPN-49 on 13,
> KUSI-51 on 9, and KSWB-69 on 5.
>

According to Zap2it.com, both DirecTV and Dish have the SD stations at their OTA channels, i.e., 39 is 39 on both. Is their info incorrect?

Also, when you say 75-80% of the market is equipped with cable and/or satellite, do you mean that 75-80% actually subscribe?

Assuming that Zap2it is correct and even that 20% of the market gets their TV exclusively OTA, plus additional sets in cable/satellite households that are also OTA, it makes sense to continue the "39" branding, although once people find out where their favorite NBC shows are, they don't seem to have trouble coming back to it, regardless of the station's branding.<P ID="signature">______________
Dave</P>
 
KNTV's Cable Channel #

> I've always wondered why KNTV wanted to change to the
> Channel 3 assignment on Comcast, and didn't want to stick
> with 11 for simplicity sake.

Weird thing is, my aunt lived in Foster City until mid-2003, and she got KNTV on cable 11.

I just checked Zap2it, and it looks like KNTV *is* on cable 3 in Foster City now.<P ID="signature">______________
Derek
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.tvvancouver.cjb.net>TV.Vancouver</a>: Covering TV stations in Vancouver, BC</P>
 
Re: KNTV's Cable Channel #

> > I've always wondered why KNTV wanted to change to the
> > Channel 3 assignment on Comcast, and didn't want to stick
> > with 11 for simplicity sake.
>
> Weird thing is, my aunt lived in Foster City until mid-2003,
> and she got KNTV on cable 11.
>
> I just checked Zap2it, and it looks like KNTV *is* on cable
> 3 in Foster City now.
>
It was on 11 in Berkeley until a couple of years ago and on 13 on the pre-rebuilt Oakland system. All on 3 now. It has had one nice side effect with KNTV's move to Mt. San Bruno. KNTV is the only VHF on cable not afflicted by ingress interference in the east bay hills.
 
Re: That might have been the case once ...

> > Very interesting information regarding KNTV, and the NBC ownership. RE: the "default" tuning to Channel 3 - I have a new Sharp TV (OK - a low end set, hardly state of the art) but it is like all of the TVs I have owned in the past 20 years - the Comcast cable box requires that the set be tuned to Channel 3. My Comcast remote has an "All On" function, but, as stated - it turns everything on, including my DVD player and my VCR. So if I want to watch regular TV, I usually turn on just the cable box and TV individually. The cable box will naturally return to the last channel played, but if I turn on the TV first - Channel 3 comes on...which is KNTV.


As for KNTV. Before NBC officially took over, the previous
>
> > management knew that most of the bay area would get the
> > station via cable. So they decided to brand themselves as
> > NBC3, plus since NBC was on channel 4, it would be easier
> > for viewers to change the channel to cable 3.
> >
> > When NBC3 officially became an NBC O&O, they scrapped all
> > NBC3 references and quickly changed it to NBC11.
>
> False. NBC "3" was a Granite idea, but NBC wasn't in a
> major hurry to change the branding of KNTV from NBC "3" to
> NBC11. Granite surrendered control of the station to NBC
> shortly after they announced the purchase (remember, Steve
> Schwaid was brought in from Philly before the affiliation
> switch actually took place on 01/01/02) in December 2001.
>
> NBC had Novocom make the original NBC "3" News graphics
> package, which was produced by Novocom, not on the cheap by
> the NBC Arthouse. Under Granite, the original plan was to
> keep the old NewsChannel 11 Giant Octopus graphics, modified
> with the NBC "3" logo. So, NBC sunk some serious money into
> the NBC "3" brand--making it clear that they were, at first,
> warm to the idea.
>
> The NBC11 branding did not debut until September 2002; NBC
> officially became the owner of KNTV in March or April, if my
> memory serves me right. Either way, the NBC11 rebranding
> didn't happen "quickly."
>
> > Had KNTV been very well known as NBC3 or NBC3/11, changes
> > probably would not have happened.
> >
>
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

> According to Zap2it.com, both DirecTV and Dish have the SD
> stations at their OTA channels, i.e., 39 is 39 on both. Is
> their info incorrect?
>
> Also, when you say 75-80% of the market is equipped with
> cable and/or satellite, do you mean that 75-80% actually
> subscribe?
>
> Assuming that Zap2it is correct and even that 20% of the
> market gets their TV exclusively OTA, plus additional sets
> in cable/satellite households that are also OTA, it makes
> sense to continue the "39" branding, although once people
> find out where their favorite NBC shows are, they don't seem
> to have trouble coming back to it, regardless of the
> station's branding.
>
I meant with moreso with cable television, I didn't think more about the satellite side of it. Obviously, Dish and DirecTV have all the local stations assigned to local channel numbers, whereas KNSD is on 39, etc. However, you do have households that do have both cable and satellite. If you're a local sports fan in San Diego, for example, Channel 4 San Diego is cable-exclusive and is the only place to watch Padres games. People disappointed with the quality of their local cable service go to the dish, and if you want to see your favorite sports teams places like Philadelphia, San Diego, and New Orleans (where the local networks are cable-exclusive), then you gotta shell out the extra bucks for cable.

As far as the "39" branding, I think it all goes to recognition of that particular channel. Channel 39 built itself from a start-up indie station to a fledging network affiliate (first with ABC, now with NBC) to one of the country's top network-owned stations. Nonetheless, I agree with the last paragraph of your statement.
 
Re: KNSD NBC7/39 &

> Some TV stations, such as WYOU in Scranton PA and WBRE in
> Wilkes-Barre PA, use only their call letters to identify
> themselves, without any channel number.

...KTTC, the NBC affiliate in Rochester, Minnesota, also does this. For years, they identified themselves as KTTC-TV 10. However, their translator in La Crosse, Wisconsin, W67CH, has a very sizeable audience because the "official" NBC affiliate for Western Wisconsin, WEAU/13 in Eau Claire, is impossible to see in La Crosse without cable, and the two La Crosse network affiliates with news departments, WKBT/8(CBS) and WXOW/19(ABC), offer comparatively little coverage of Minnesota news (despite WXOW's studio and transmitter actually being in La Crescent, Minnesota). Thus, in part to acknowledge its La Crosse presence on Channel 67, KTTC never refers to "Channel 10" on the air anymore...<P ID="signature">______________
King Daevid MacKenzie
WLSU Wisconsin Public Radio, La Crosse
heard weekly on http://www.radio4all.net/
"Kill Ugly Radio." FRANK ZAPPA</P>
 
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