KNSJ countdown

[david]

89.1: KNSJ testing on-air

Have not heard about this project prior to this thread. Just checked out their website and it appears this has been a dozen years in the making.
Looks like the signal is going to be mostly serviceable in the east county, and not so much along the coast. Now that the tower is mounted and is being tested (they posted on Facebook that it works), anybody have info as to when the station plans to go on air?

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Re: KNSG testing on-air

Playing etherial, soothing New Age instrumental music. Somewhat spotty Lakeside/Santee, driving around where KSDS Xlator interferes. In home, only the best portables receive it "listenable".
Although their CP calls for H&V polarization, they saved buck$ and went horiz. only.

I've never quite understood horizontal/vertical antenna polarization concept....could someone explain this?

 

[Big 121]

Re: KNSG testing on-air

An associate in the Clairemont area confirmed reception of KNSJ to be clear (full quieting) on his car radio, before an
abrupt power down at 2:15 pm. Clairemont is right near the 40dbu (100 microvolt) contour.
Activist San Diego has chosen R.F. Specialists Inc.,(Steve Moreen) for this project, and are quite capable of getting KNSJ on the air
before the CP expires.

Explaining antenna radiation..not quite enough space here,sdwulfdawg. Try 'Antenna-Theory.com' , or 'rcexplorer.se' .

 

[w9wi]

Re: KNSG testing on-air

Playing etherial, soothing New Age instrumental music. Somewhat spotty Lakeside/Santee, driving around where KSDS Xlator interferes. In home, only the best portables receive it "listenable".
Although their CP calls for H&V polarization, they saved buck$ and went horiz. only.

I've never quite understood horizontal/vertical antenna polarization concept....could someone explain this?

Maybe this analogy will help (or maybe not):

Imagine you're the transmitter, and you're holding one end of a long rope. The other end of the rope goes through the mail slot in the front door of a house, and then is tied to the coat rack inside.

You start wiggling the rope from side to side. Your movements are transmitted down the rope, through the mail slot, and into the house. Anyone watching indoors will see the rope wiggling inside the front door.

Now, imagine that instead of wiggling the rope from side to side, you wiggle it up & down. It continues to wiggle for most of its length -- but the mail slot opens the "wrong" way -- horizontally instead of vertically -- so your wiggling motion doesn't get transmitted through the door & the person watching inside won't see much motion at all.

That's kinda what horizontal & vertical polarization is for radio. You can "launch" the radio waves either horizontally or vertically. The receiving antenna must match for most efficient reception.

In nearly all cases, the FCC requires FM and TV stations to transmit horizontally. They determined in the 1940s that manmade noise tends to be vertically polarized, so if receiving antennas are horizontal they'll reject much of this noise.

Stations may optionally choose to transmit both horizontally *and* vertically. The vast majority of FM stations have chosen this option. As I'd imagine you've noticed, most car radio antennas are vertically polarized. With most other radios, the polarization is simply hard to predict! It's a lot rarer with TV, because a TV set is* more likely to be attached to a proper horizontally-polarized antenna. (see below...) Going both horizontal & vertical is more expensive, because you need to provide twice the transmitter power. (one batch of power for each polarization)

A small number of FM stations in the 88-92 band are required to use vertical to reduce interference to TV stations in the 82-88 band. ("channel 6"). Since the TV stations are horizontal - and a TV is* more likely to be attached to a proper horizontally polarized antenna - having the FM station go vertical knocks down its signal at the input of the TV set. Since TV has gone digital, there are far fewer stations broadcasting on this 82-88 band. Indeed, just yesterday an FM station on 88.5 in Pennsylvania applied for permission to go from vertical-only to both horizontal & vertical.

* was more likely; today, with most over-the-air TV viewing using indoor antennas, TV has the same problem as FM -- you can't predict what polarization the receiving antenna will prefer!

 

[sdwulfdawg]

KNSJ's signal is terrible. I'll never quite understand if they were so committed to their cause that they didn't go the brokered route with the owners of KSON-AM 1240.

 

[radio-darn]

KNSJ's signal is terrible. I'll never quite understand if they were so committed to their cause that they didn't go the brokered route with the owners of KSON-AM 1240.

That would not have made for an exciting plea to the New Age spinsters who keep endeavors like this funded. There is no logic involved in this whole project: it's all about the emotion...having "our own radio station" to fight the corporate titans and other evil-doers.

And of, course, why go for a mere AM, when they have an FM signal their web site says, "an probably reach 1 million people!"

 

[sdwulfdawg]

KNSJ's signal is terrible. I'll never quite understand if they were so committed to their cause that they didn't go the brokered route with the owners of KSON-AM 1240.

That would not have made for an exciting plea to the New Age spinsters who keep endeavors like this funded. There is no logic involved in this whole project: it's all about the emotion...having "our own radio station" to fight the corporate titans and other evil-doers.

And of, course, why go for a mere AM, when they have an FM signal their web site says, "an probably reach 1 million people!"

I have a saying, professionals know what to do, amateurs have to look in the book. I know quite a few people involved with this effort and they are a bunch of amateurs. One of the movers/shakers attempting to start a fledgling news department is Mike Hancock who does traffic at KOGO and who also does some news reading.

But you're right, for them, it is all about emotion and "fightin' the big man" rather than being practical. They figure they need $2000/month to run the station on a full tank of gas.

 

[600kogo]

Ill bet that right about now someone could buy 1040 KURS from Jaime for a steal and since they are not Jaime could negotiate a tower rental with someone

 

[Big 121]

KNSJ people-powered community radio is hosting a FUN-draiser!

It’s been a long haul, but we’ve finally got the green light and we’re ready to bring you San Diego’s people powered radio, a radio station by the people and for the people. A crew of 5 people went up to Monument Peak to tackle the most difficult equipment issue that has faced KNSJ. After securing a contract to rent tower space, we mounted our high-end $15,000 custom built antenna on the tower. Please join us in celebration at our FUN-draiser.

When: Wednesday, 5/22/2013
Where: Haritna Middle Eastern Restaurant 7303 El Cajon Blvd La Mesa CA 91942
Time: 6:00 pm Dinner, 7:30 pm Comedy Show

Delicious buffet dinner will be provided!
Cash Bar open to guests!
Raffle– with great prizes!
FREE Parking in rear!
Use of outside patios w/heatlamps!
Price: $18.00 at the door, only $16 if you buy online via PayPal!

((Have not heard testing except 2 days last week.Technical trivia-KNSJ height of 6100' AMSL, the distance to the horizon (if unobstructed) is about 108 miles.))

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Here is what looks like a legit map of KNSJ's coverage area.

Looks like the lizards and other mountain animals will get bombarded well....as well as the desert floor!

http://knsj.org/wp-content/uploads/KNSJ-Service-Outline-On-Gmap2.pdf

 

[radio-darn]

Here is what looks like a legit map of KNSJ's coverage area.

Looks like the lizards and other mountain animals will get bombarded well....as well as the desert floor!

http://knsj.org/wp-content/uploads/KNSJ-Service-Outline-On-Gmap2.pdf

Do they still draw these maps based on a receiving antenna height of 9 meters above ground? Based on distance and mountainous terrain, I just cannot see how an FM transmitter there can reach more than a handful of people. Yes, I can see where someone living at just the right spot in San Diego might get the station at home on a good receiver, but it seems like you wouldn't be able to drive one block before it faded from your car radio, if you could pick it up in the first place in metro San Diego. San Diego's hilly terrain makes it hard on even the best-located stations.

 

[davideduardo]

Here is what looks like a legit map of KNSJ's coverage area.

For in home and at work listening... the places where about 70% of all radio listening takes place... a 65 dbu signal is pretty much the cut-off point. The 65 dbu of KNSJ covers less than 4000 people. And the 60 covers less than 12 thousand.

 

[Big 121]

KNSJ has signed on in living mono. Let the reception reports begin...

 

[radio-darn]

KNSJ has signed on in living mono. Let the reception reports begin...

I listened to them in-car, driving along Highway 125 from Bonita to Highway 94, then along the 94 for a few miles east through Casa De Oro.

It was a an up-and-down signal with lots of breakup at times, and it would have to be very compelling content for someone to put up with the overall low quality.

But it occurred to me that the real purpose of the radio signal may be to give legitimacy to their web stream, which seems to be the only practical way all but a few can listen to it at home. It's one thing to say "we are an internet radio station," but it's quite another to be able to say that "We are a real live radio station that happens to have an internet stream." Even if that through-the-ether signal can hardly be picked up except by mule deer and other mountain dwellers, it adds a lot of credibility to the operation. If they can adopt some of the marketing savvy that helped their dreaded corporations become successful they can play "radio station" while convincing most potential listeners to listen online. They can blame the lack of a suitable signal on topography and "interference" from other radio stations (who probably take corporate contributions).

This on-air radio station is merely a facade.

 

[AnonGirl]

While the test signal was up, reports came in that KNSJ 89.1 FM was being heard ALL over the County - in much farther areas than anyone currently working on the project imagined...

 

[davideduardo]

While the test signal was up, reports came in that KNSJ 89.1 FM was being heard ALL over the County

That would mean that someone changed the laws of physics...

 

[radiookc]

The 60 dbu contour map on the FCC website is pretty accurate.

 

[AnonGirl]

The sound was WAAAY better during the day, than at night. Also, the areas receiving the signals were admittedly patchy through-out the County, and seemed to be ruled by whether the surrounding terrain was hilly or not. I am wondering if the 8 freeway creates some sort of corridor for the signal to travel down - as I was in Pacific Beach when the test signal was initially turned on, and while the signal was stat-icky as I drove around, I could hear it loud and clear in many spots. The signal was much stronger in areas like North Park & City Heights & Mission Valley - but not in Hillcrest. The signal was also VERY strong in Chula Vista and the South Bay area. In some areas of PB and UTC KPBS's 89.1 transmitter got in the way of the signal....and on Sundays it seemed like some religious talk radio took over the signal in the beach area as well.

 

[Big 121]

Remote operation may not have been available during the 'test' sessions, and I smiled thinking an ASD member was driving each day
to the site, unlocking 2 gates and an enclosure to turn on the TX and CD player.
Signal-wise, exclude almost all of Lakeside, El Cajon, Santee, Spring Valley, which are lower elevation, and are shadowed by terrain.
The signal distribution is conforming perfectly to the laws of physics.(REavid) A circular-polarized beam (3 times the cost) would reduce
the signal dips....
As for their "Social Justice" and anti-news corporation theme of ASD, I am unaware of any functioning country with social justice as its guiding
principal...
Will they be using Al-Jazzera(itself,a large news corporation)to supply news for them, similar to what Free Radio San Diego used to air?
Good luck, ASD..

 

[radio-darn]

While the test signal was up, reports came in that KNSJ 89.1 FM was being heard ALL over the County

I heard some of those listener comments, which sounded like they were automated recordings and i wondered how many were based on online listening?