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KNUU AM 970 Didn't Improve Rating Despite New Show

It's been about a month since Doug Basham's new show on KNUU debuted. So far the ratings for KNUU AM 970 remain flat. KNUU hasen't been able to beat KDWN or KXNT in the ratings race.

Doug's new show is no more successful than it was on KLAV or KDWN. The Doug Basham show is syndicated but where? Mostly mediocre radio stations across the country. I've only found about 20 google searches for Doug Basham.

That's not very many for somebody who supposedly has a syndicated show.
I need a list of the stations where Doug Basham's show is syndicated. Just curious!

KNUU shows about an 0.8 share for the month. Pretty bad for a all news station.

They should be in the top 10 or top 5 like WBBM in Chicago and KCBS in San Francisco.

It's slogan is "When You Need To Know"

Why is it that KNUU AM 970 doesn't garner higher ratings than it should for a news station?
 
news business consumer "left talk" ---they are all over the place...not news like knx or kcbs..not talk like AA station..not a business station..they should either be all news (which means hiring a reporter or two) or an AA station

their station has a crummy signal at night...

basham is war talk 95% of the time...and they don't even list his show on their website...
 
Who is the general manager? Do They make any money?
The station is so unfocused.
 
> It's been about a month since Doug Basham's new show on KNUU
> debuted. So far the ratings for KNUU AM 970 remain flat.
> KNUU hasen't been able to beat KDWN or KXNT in the ratings
> race.

One, and only one, show late at night will not get the 12+ shares up to the other stations you mentioned in such a short period of time. You would need to look at the 7p to Midnight numbers in the appropirate demos: 25-54, 35-64. These numbers are not generally available to the public.

> That's not very many for somebody who supposedly has a
> syndicated show.
> I need a list of the stations where Doug Basham's show is
> syndicated. Just curious!

Radio listeners are not entitled to this list unless you are affiliated with the show.

> KNUU shows about an 0.8 share for the month. Pretty bad for
> a all news station.

Not really. In the US, Vegas has one of the lowest total 12+ talk shares among all local talk stations added together.

> They should be in the top 10 or top 5 like WBBM in Chicago
> and KCBS in San Francisco.
>
> It's slogan is "When You Need To Know"
>
> Why is it that KNUU AM 970 doesn't garner higher ratings
> than it should for a news station?

Ask a local consultant if you want more info on these questions.
 
> Who is the general manager? Do They make any money?
> The station is so unfocused.

Some stations have a variety of programming...news, talk, sports, financial talk, brokered talk, etc. and do just fine and do make money. It's not a matter of being "unfocused"...stations like this are doing what will bring them the most ratings and revenue according to their research...I do not work for KNUU so I do not know what their broadcasting goals are...
 
There are dozens of different ratings systems

Ratings systems do differ depending on what chart you're looking at. Arbitron has a rating system that tracks listener shares during the month. Many don't add up.

For example, KDWN AM 720 has never got in the 2's or slightly below that. This would lead us all to believe that the station has no listeners. Maybe so, But KDWN has many calls and many listeners including government officials. So KDWN doesn't care about ratings because they have plenty of listeners in their own target demographic.

You would think that the local tv news channels has viewers and that ratings are high. This assumption is false. Majority of Las vegans don't watch much tv news so the numbers must be lower than we think. Only the fluff and puff crowd would watch televison news.
 
> > Who is the general manager? Do They make any money?
> > The station is so unfocused.
>
> Some stations have a variety of programming...news, talk,
> sports, financial talk, brokered talk, etc. and do just fine
> and do make money. It's not a matter of being
> "unfocused"...stations like this are doing what will bring
> them the most ratings and revenue according to their
> research...I do not work for KNUU so I do not know what
> their broadcasting goals are...
>
I think they just want to stay under the radar. How much is Doug paying you?
 
Re: There are dozens of different ratings systems

> Ratings systems do differ depending on what chart you're
> looking at. Arbitron has a rating system that tracks
> listener shares during the month. Many don't add up.
>
> For example, KDWN AM 720 has never got in the 2's or
> slightly below that. This would lead us all to believe that
> the station has no listeners. Maybe so, But KDWN has many
> calls and many listeners including government officials. So
> KDWN doesn't care about ratings because they have plenty of
> listeners in their own target demographic.
>

There may be a couple of start-up companies, but Arbitron is the only one that is used on a widespread basis.

KDWNs ratings are more accurate than you believe. If you did your own informal research and asked people you saw in public at random what radio stations they listen to, I promise that very few would mention KDWN.

If you specifically asked people at random in Las Vegas about 720 KDWN, most would give you a puzzled look and say they never heard of it or say "I don't listen to AM". The small minority who would say they listen to KDWN would most likely be elderly (which Arbitron shows to be their top demo) or mention Michael Savage (which ARB shows to be their only weekday program with any type of significant ratings).

Don't let the calls fool you, I hear many of the same (often cranky) old voices call in over and over again.

With by far the best AM signal in town, KDWN has great potential. With the right programming decisions and some promotion/advertising KDWN could become the KFI of Las Vegas. But the way it stands now, believe those consistently low Arbitron numbers because they very much reflect reality.
 
Re: There is only one accepted ratings system

> Ratings systems do differ depending on what chart you're
> looking at. Arbitron has a rating system that tracks
> listener shares during the month. Many don't add up.

Arbitron tracks listening over rolling three-month periods, not individual months. They track stations listen to (cume) and how long (Time Spent Listening) and derive share from that. All station shares, including "below cutoff" and non commercial and unidentifiable listening adds up to 100%, always.

There is no other accepted measurement of radio audience in Las Vegas.
 
> > It's been about a month since Doug Basham's new show on
> KNUU debuted. So far the ratings for KNUU AM 970 remain flat.

Ratings for K-NEWS would take much longer to change in so far as the station is crippled by the owner's need not to make any waves....He's a financial guy, and wants to be friends with everyone. This does not make for successful News/Talk radio. You essentially reduce your audience to those who MAY do business with you; a pretty small audience, as you can see....By the way, since K-NEWS doesn't subscribe to Arbitron, they're also shooting in the dark.

>> In the US, Vegas has one of the lowest total 12+
> talk shares among all local talk stations added together.

One reason that's the case, is that talk radio in his town is simply awful. The number one station is live and local only 4 hours per day in a 24/7-365 town...The news station is described above....and the sleeping giant in town, KDWN, (Also not an Arbitron subscriber), while mostly live & local, is paralyzed with fear of change. Horrendous....


Jon-David Wells
Fearless Broadcaster
 
Yea really. I mean ratings, they have none. Revenue...
maybe with a bigger signal-but who's kidding who?


> Who is the general manager? Do They make any money?
> > > The station is so unfocused.
> >
> > Some stations have a variety of programming...news, talk,
> > sports, financial talk, brokered talk, etc. and do just
> fine
> > and do make money. It's not a matter of being
> > "unfocused"...stations like this are doing what will bring
>
> > them the most ratings and revenue according to their
> > research...I do not work for KNUU so I do not know what
> > their broadcasting goals are...
> >
> I think they just want to stay under the radar. How much is
> Doug paying you?
>
 
Re: There are dozens of different ratings systems

I love it a guy is quoting how many calls they get as some
kind of subsitute on ratings, I'm sure David Eduardo loves
that as well. Too bad, Vegas is a dynamic place, but the
talk radio (including Infinity) is very medicore, if not
poor. Fresno talk radio is more compelling.
 
Re: There are dozens of different ratings systems

"...KDWNs ratings are more accurate than you believe. If you did
your own informal research and asked people you saw in
public at random what radio stations they listen to, I
promise that very few would mention KDWN."--Jay F.

Jay, KDWN's ratings in the upper demos aren't bad at all...As a matter of fact, KXNT's upper demo numbers are WAY too close to KDWN's for a competent PD's comfort. As that is not the case, and since KDWN is paralyzed with fear of change, KXNT continues its convenient and unchallenged evasion of broadcasting reality.

"...If you specifically asked people at random in Las Vegas
about 720 KDWN, most would give you a puzzled look and say
they never heard of it or say "I don't listen to AM". The
small minority who would say they listen to KDWN would most
likely be elderly (which Arbitron shows to Michael Savage
(which ARB shows to be their only weekday program with any
type of significant ratings)."---Jay F

There is a very interesting Talk ratings anomaly in place here in Las Vegas. We called it "phantom cume" (when I was winning) at K-NEWS. There truly are a lot of Las Vegas Talk listeners out there that are not reflected in the ratings. Personally, I believe it's due to zero competition, and management decisions made to save the money budgeted to market or promote their stations. (Thus, moving more money to the bottom line, and enriching their year-end bonuses, of course.) Therefore, this "phantom" audience truly has no idea who they're listening to. Rather, the research question should be; "What talk show do you like to listen to." You'd get plenty of valid replies.

"...Don't let the calls fool you, I hear many of the same (often
cranky) old voices call in over and over again."

Actually Jay, "The Wells Report" gets a very diverse call-in audience, and at least 3 or 4 "first-time" callers every weekend. Then again, I don't do "open lines"....it's a directed conversation. (So endeth the shameless self-promotion. Hey, if I don't do it, no one else here will...)

"...With by far the best AM signal in town, KDWN has great
potential. With the right programming decisions and some
promotion/advertising KDWN could become the KFI of Las
Vegas. But the way it stands now, believe those consistently
low Arbitron numbers because they very much reflect reality."

This may be a little esoteric....According to their own definitions, Arbitron Ratings are: "...An opinion of an estimate". To say they "reflect reality" may be placing more faith in them than should actually be the case. However, they ARE the 800 lb. gorilla. Therefore, any "reality" assigned to their product is one of their own manufacture. That having been said, regardless of what actually exists, for those of us who are left in the business, "the numbers" are the theoretical "truth".
Likewise, KDWN is trapped in a reality of their own manufacture, now leavened with the abject fear of certain and imminent change. That very combination has created a paralysis from which the only escape is a leap of faith they are incapable of making....

....a pity. And so shall the mediocrity be preserved.

As I have said here before, it took an iceberg to expose the incompetence of Titanic's captain. He was a menace long before an iceberg finally told the truth....In the meantime, enjoy the cruise!

Jon-David Wells
Fearless Broadcaster
 
WHAT A SHOCK!!!!!!!!! KNUU has never had numbers and much to the shock of you die hard AM radio listeners IT NEVER WILL. Many of the stations mentioned in the news/talk field are in cities that have a deep history, a station with heritage. In addition, many of those cities have had a large metropolitan, college educated base that has been around for generations.

Basham is a tiny smashed insect on the grill of a no-longer running Edsel. The only AM in this city worthy of note is KXNT. Like them or hate them, they are the only Top 10 rated AM station in the market. Everyone else on the AM dial barely garners 2 shares...if that.

News/Talk is one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive formats to run if you are to do it right. Too expensive? I think for Vegas, yes.

Fearless Broadcaster would have us believe it's lack of talent. No offense sir but not even you could save KNUU...or KDWN or any of the other antiquated signals on Vegas' AM band.
 
Re: Arbitron reality.

> Jay, KDWN's ratings in the upper demos aren't bad at
> all...As a matter of fact, KXNT's upper demo numbers are WAY
> too close to KDWN's for a competent PD's comfort.

In 35-64, the only high end demo that is at all salable, KXNT had over 2.5 times the audience of KDWN in the last book... I wish I beat my competitors by 250%.

>
> This may be a little esoteric....According to their own
> definitions, Arbitron Ratings are: "...An opinion of an
> estimate".

Actually, Arbitron labels the book as "Radio Audience estimates" and the word "opinion" does not appear, as research is not generally mixed with opinion. All polls are estimates, based on a theoretial random probability sample of the specified universe. The only sample that is not an estimate is a census.

> To say they "reflect reality" may be placing
> more faith in them than should actually be the case.

Arbitron is considerably more accurate than most detractors give them credit for.
 
Re: There are dozens of different ratings systems

> I love it a guy is quoting how many calls they get as some
> kind of subsitute on ratings


He even included the politician guest callers!

> Fresno talk radio is more compelling.

KMJ in Fresno is a better news-talk station than Las Vegas has ever had. Although I haven't heard them much since Infinity bought them.
 
I love this guy stating the obvious "uh news-talk is the most
expesnive format" thanks bud. I've put together budgets for
N/T stations before, sound like a lot of excuses. As far as
"college educated" and heritage. B.S. I could show you markets
where none of those aspects are important.
 
Re: Arbitron reality.

"In 35-64, the only high end demo that is at all salable,
KXNT had over 2.5 times the audience of KDWN in the last
book... I wish I beat my competitors by 250%."---David Eduardo

Small numbers lead to big percentages....But that's the nature of this discussion, right?

"Actually, Arbitron labels the book as "Radio Audience
estimates" and the word "opinion" does not appear, as
research is not generally mixed with opinion. All polls are
estimates, based on a theoretial random probability sample
of the specified universe. The only sample that is not an
estimate is a census."

The printed language at the front of an Arbitron Book at one time did call the information contained within, "...an opinion of an estimate". Now, the language is:

"....The reliability of audience estimates cannot be determined to any precise mathmatical value or definition."

I think that says it all....

"Arbitron is considerably more accurate than most detractors
give them credit for."

I'm not an Arbitron detractor....but I am very much looking forward to the wide use of "People Meters".

J-D
FB
 
Why so angry Collins? There may be those on the borad that don't understand how much it costs to run a KGO or KFBK or WGN...They may wonder why it can't be done right in Vegas. I'm making simple observations as to why no AM signal, excluding KXNT, is worth anything. I'm also noting the time spent discussing worthless, unlistenable, stations like KNUU and KDWN. Why bother? They are and have been on the trash heap of radio for years now.

Please, name a few major successful news/talkers that don't have a huge heritage and/or a large college educated audience that fuels them...

KGO...forever in the Bay...very educated city
WGN...Chicago...please.
KFBK...owns Sac...supported, if not by college educated audience, by the movers and shakers of California.

WBZ - Boston
KOA - Denver
KYW - Philly

Major markets have major news/talkers fueled by an intelligent audience that has been raised on their product. Vegas does not have that heritage behind its N/T nor the intelligent listener base to support it. Why go to college when you can make more money parking cars or delivering drinks?

Let me ask you this Collins, the expert that you claim you are, what would make a Vegas N/T excel to the point of being the voice of a city?
>
 
Re: Arbitron reality.

> "In 35-64, the only high end demo that is at all salable,
> KXNT had over 2.5 times the audience of KDWN in the last
> book... I wish I beat my competitors by 250%."---David
> Eduardo
>
> Small numbers lead to big percentages....But that's the
> nature of this discussion, right?

Without revealing actual numbers against board policy, KXNT has over a five share in that demo, and in today's radio, a 5 share anywhere is a big number. In fact, KXNT is in a virtual tie for third in the demo. KDWN is not even top 15.
>

> The printed language at the front of an Arbitron Book at one
> time did call the information contained within, "...an
> opinion of an estimate".

I don't think so, but maybe it did in the 60's. I only started using arbitron and doing diary reviews in 1970.

> Now, the language is:
>
> "....The reliability of audience estimates cannot be
> determined to any precise mathmatical value or definition."

This is legalese, and what it means is that the precison varies by demo, daypart and station. However, they give the formulas for one standard error which, given sample size, is going to apply to something like 78% of all cases.

This same thing aplies to polls used on TV and the papers. They give a margin of error, but that is based on a probablility of the ddeviation only being within one standard error. In other words, with a poll, there is no way to be 100% sure. And we know and accept that. But the accuracy is good enough for the purpose of ratings, with is selling advertising.
>
>
> I think that says it all....
>
> "Arbitron is considerably more accurate than most detractors
>
> give them credit for."
>
> I'm not an Arbitron detractor....but I am very much looking
> forward to the wide use of "People Meters".

Which is, based on the Philly test, no more accurate than the diary at measuring share and AQH persons. All it does is pick up minimal P4 and beyond cuming. The shares in the fully operational Philly test were nearly identical to the diary shares, so the big news was, "the diary works."
 
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