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KNX compared to WBZ

Dan Rea is classy and a worthy successor to Brudnoy, Sullivan, etc. He may not have agreed with the likes
of the late Ted Kennedy, or with current people like Deval Patrick but he has had them on and been respectful toward them. Right-wing in Boston is pretty much moderate in the rest of the country, though it's still too reactionary for the leftists. Even if WBZ is headline news plus talk at night, and not really all news, and WBUR/WGBH may offer quite a bit of news but again are not all news, perhaps an all-news station like what you desire may come to pass one day. Also, call me a troll if you will but I'd never do the same to you. Your opinions are respected even if not agreed with, and debated, and I will continue to offer mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1QfXQakX2w
...Stop in at the Saturday Night Fish Fry. It was rockin'....
 
Bob Nelson,

I'm asking you nicely to stay out of this focused discussion about the need for more news product on the radio in Boston.
if you continue to ruin focused discussions by radio "professionsals", or at least those who don't have a same headed agenda with your meaningless rants, then I can't promise I won't be nasty.
Just a friendly request....

By the way, thanks for the plug for my show
 
Bottom line: doing two airshifts of talk each night (8-mid, mid-5) takes four and a half full-time staffers: two talk hosts, two call screener/producers, and an evening news anchor (I'm counting that as "half" since that anchor comes in mid-afternoon, or at least did when I was working there, and contributes as much to the afternoon news block and the next morning's news block as to the hourly newscasts during the talk block.)

Total salary burden: maybe $350,000 a year.

Properly doing those two airshifts as all-news, on the other hand, requires at least three and more likely four anchors, at least two editors, at least two newswriters, at least two producers and, if done right, at least one and more likely two field reporters and at least one sports anchor.

Total salary burden: somewhere north of $650,000 a year, not counting the additional resources (more engineering/IT support, news vehicles, newsroom space, managerial support) that goes into those added hours of high-maintenance programming.

Really want to have a "focused discussion" about this issue, especially with those of us on the board (and I'm not the only one here) who've actually worked at 1170 Soldiers Field Road? Show how switching from talk to news can produce an additional $300,000+ in annual revenue to cover the added expenses.

From where I sit, I think that's a tough case to make, especially given the passionate response that WBZ has drawn whenever it's tried to move away from being a local talker at night. Most other broadcasters would kill to get the kind of engagement from audiences and sponsors that WBZ drew when it tried to replace Brudnoy and later Leveille with syndicated offerings. That's as much a part of WBZ's DNA as the daytime all-news blocks, and it's a very different DNA from that of WINS or KYW, which have been doing all-news 24/7 for as long as most of their listener base has been adults.
 
Norm, I'm entitled to my opinions and I've been in non-comm. radio for 30 years. You don't have to read my "rants" if
you don't wish; skip over them ("now, I don't want to get off on a rant here"--Dennis Miller) but I think I make sense.
Scott F. showed he made a lot of sense in his post about the economics of the situation and the tradition WBZ has for
talk with its powerful signal. I have made suggestions before like taking 93.7 to a WEEI simulcast long ago (something they should have done the moment CBS announced, well in advance, that Sports Hub was coming)--although it's a given that they were making money with "Mike" and probably wanted to wait to see if the new station would match them in the ratings. Okay.
I also had said during WKOX/WXKS' prog talk days that they needed a daily local host (and of course a better signal)
and they didn't make the move. Now, with a focus on conservative talk they have two local hosts (and a better signal)...whether or not it's paying off remains to be seen but it looks like they're staying with the format at least till the end of this year's elections.

If someone else wants to try all news including evenings and overnights maybe it would work but WBZ is sticking with
what got them there. Similarly, WEEI avoids newscasts, traffic, and weather (the business updates are brokered) to
stay with sports only because that's what made them a success. Perhaps if, say, Greater Media were to try all news
with WTKK, it could work, but would they also be all news or maybe have a talk show in am and pm drive? One could
picture Jim and Margery mornings, Howie Carr (if they should sign him) pm drive, but news otherwise. Or yes,
maybe they could try all news--maybe even do a partnership with that newspaper just down Morrissey Blvd from
their studios. The Globe has done that in the past with NECN.

You're welcome for the plug and I won't call your opinions a rant. Also, I'll add that WBZ is proof that the AM dial isn't dead yet, and they can make
money and grab ratings, while in many places in the U.S., news, talk, and sports stations are simulcasting on or
moving to FM. It's still incredible that they can get the ratings they have given listeners preferences for FM,
and that could be why they haven't done the same (other than an HD-3), but the day may someday come when
they could kill off one music format and move there. The killer signal is a big reason why but it's also true that
the AM demo is aging. I have a friend in the radio biz in Ohio and he's told me that for years.

"Of course, that's just my opinion. Hey, I could be wrong."--the aforementioned Mr. Miller

P.S.: I will add that one November night I saw an explosion in Danversport. WRKO had nothing on it--they canned
their news staff. But callers to The Steve Leveille Broadcast started to relay info; WBZ was pretty much the only source for info for awhile, until TV early newscasts started to air a bit later. Here, WBZ was talk but they also were "breaking news".
Bravo to them.
(A thread about it had started on conservative messageboard Free Republic; one member said "I called WBZ ra'dio, they confirmed they are sending reporters to investigate." I passed along a bit later that Ch 5 at least did have a "crawl" on the bottom of the screen about it, but again WBZ was the only one to report on it--including calls from listeners who saw or felt something.)
 
If you look at my first post, you'll notice that I mention a handful of things and not one of them is to deep six the programming on WBZ AM.
I don't have an anti WBZ agenda, I find SOME, not much, but SOME of the their talk shows to be quite enjoyable
read carefully before responding, and stick to the subject
However, I criticize bitterly the break in news at 8:00PM on weekdays, and earlier on the weekends, the god damn infomercials during prime hours and other times, and the stale, old, recorded newscasts at night.
It wouldn't bother me at all if WBZ was competing with a 24 hour all newser here.
However, the way it is currently, you can't get a live and local newscast on the radio at certain hours every day in Boston
As far as the cost of hiring and maintaining a 24 hour news staff goes, CBS doesn't need you all, or anyone else to do their expenses on this site.
CBS honchos will do whatever the F$^K they want no matter what I, or Scott, or Bob, or any other nostalgic cheerleader says.

CBS and Merlin have enough money to start up news operations in other cities, One of them is Philadelphia, and what I propose now, and I'll repeat it again if I have to, is for either Merlin to come to Boston and purchase an FM for ALL NEWS, or WBZ to feature ALL NEWS, live and local on one of their existing under- performing FM's, and silmulcast WBZ AM during the day.
Every city has a glut of talkers, for example WABC,WMAL, KNEW, WLS, WGN, KFI,WPHT should I go on?
However, every one of those cities has ALL NEWS station/s to fall back on when their eyes glaze over, Boston does not.
 
aerie said:
I've been hesitant to say this, but I think WBZ's news programming has seen better days. Traffic reports when there is no traffic (because of the sponsorship), weather reports from people in Pennsylvania who can't pronounce their profession, mindless recorded features from CBS, rehashing of the previous day's sports, endless commercials, and frankly, very little "news". I think WEEI 590 in its heyday did a better job. They must be doing something right, though, because the ratings are holding up. Maybe I'm just getting old.
'BZ says they provide "traffic on the 3's" NOT "When there's traffic" or "During Rush hours", traffic issues can occur at ANY time of the day, sure it mainly occurs during those rush hours before and after the hours most people work but they CAN happen at any time.
Also, think of the continuity aspect too, are they to break into the news when there's a "traffic issue" like a special report and only offer traffic reports during rush hours? I think that would ruin the brand of "traffic on the 3's" it's a reliability issue, if people can rely on you for their news & traffic at ANY time and you cut into that it just ruins that credbility/reliability aspect of your station.
Most news stations like Komo in Seattle, KNX in LA, WINS in nYC all do traffic reports around the clock it's as much a part of the news as the weather forecast.
 
Norm Rosen said:
As far as the cost of hiring and maintaining a 24 hour news staff goes, CBS doesn't need you all, or anyone else to do their expenses on this site.
CBS honchos will do whatever the F$^K they want no matter what I, or Scott, or Bob, or any other nostalgic cheerleader says.

I'll gladly cop to being a student of WBZ's history. I don't think that makes me a "nostalgic cheerleader." I have tremendous respect for the WBZ of the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s, but I don't for one minute believe that recreating the station of DeSuze and Maynard and Glick is a sure-fire recipe for success in the 2012 media landscape. Nor do I believe, having talked to many of the players who were there in those days, that the basic motivation behind station management was any different then: Westinghouse, like CBS Radio, was a very large company with the bottom line always very clearly in view.

That means that, despite your contention, CBS honchos can't just "do whatever the F$^K they want." They have to answer the very questions that you so quickly brushed off as not our concern here: will switching to more expensive programming increase ratings and revenues, and conversely, can programming be cheapened without causing a disproportionate loss in ratings and revenue?

On plenty of occasions, the 20/20 hindsight of history tells us their analysis was wrong. Sure, it was a lot cheaper to run Tom Snyder than Brudnoy, and to run Jon Grayson instead of Leveille, but it turned out that the fall-off in advertising revenues was unacceptably large, too. The bottom line spoke, and management had to listen. (The bottom line also turned out to dictate that the tradeoff for continued local talk at night was apparently infomercials on the weekends. The jury may still be out on the long-term effect of that decision.)

CBS and Merlin have enough money to start up news operations in other cities, One of them is Philadelphia, and what I propose now, and I'll repeat it again if I have to, is for either Merlin to come to Boston and purchase an FM for ALL NEWS, or WBZ to feature ALL NEWS, live and local on one of their existing under- performing FM's, and silmulcast WBZ AM during the day.
Every city has a glut of talkers, for example WABC,WMAL, KNEW, WLS, WGN, KFI,WPHT should I go on?
However, every one of those cities has ALL NEWS station/s to fall back on when their eyes glaze over, Boston does not.

All good in theory. But any "serious discussion" has to take into account that not all markets, and not all broadcast companies, are created equal.

If CBS were starting from a blank slate in each of its markets, it would never have two competing all-newsers in New York, for instance. But WINS and WCBS don't exist in a vacuum; they exist in a real and unique media market that's very heavily shaped by the three decades of stiff competition between Group W and CBS that preceded the merger in the 1990s. Out of that battle emerged two very strong radio stations with distinct audience profiles and mammoth revenue streams, and in that specific environment it made all the sense in the world to keep them both.

In Philadelphia, CBS inherited a Group W all-newser, KYW, that was truly 24/7 news...and that had built a 30-year legacy of 24/7 news by the time of the merger. It's hard to imagine what else KYW might have done, in the context of its specific scenario, that would have made more sense than remaining 24/7 news.

If you roll the clock back half a century to the dawn of the Group W all-news formula, could they have made WBZ into the same sort of 24/7 operation that KYW is? It's certainly possible - but it helps immensely to understand why KYW went in one direction in 1965 and WBZ went another way. KYW actually was a blank slate when it went all-news: Westinghouse had just won back the Philadelphia signal after a long legal battle with NBC, and NBC uprooted the programming it had been running in Philadelphia (as WRCV) and moved much of its staff to Cleveland. So the risk-reward equation looked pretty good in Philadelphia. But in Boston, WBZ was riding high with its full-service format, heavy on music, and the potential disruption from a conversion to all-news was too much risk for Westinghouse to take. By the time circumstances all but demanded all-news during the day, there was far too much full-service history baked into WBZ's DNA...and thus the hybrid format that spawned this thread.

(And it should be noted that some of Westinghouse's attempts to do all-news have failed. WIND in Chicago got slaughtered by WBBM, a later stab with WMAQ didn't survive the CBS merger, and even KFWB lost out in the end to the stronger KNX.)

That's a long way around to get to your proposed scenarios, which, again, look good against a blank slate but maybe not so much against the unique reality of Boston in 2012.

CBS has no underperforming FMs to blow up. The investment in 98.5, which is not a cheap station to run, has paid off very nicely. Sports talk draws a demographic that's very desirable to advertisers, out of proportion to what the overall 12+ ratings would suggest, and WBZ-FM gets to bank that revenue without the huge burden of baseball rights fees that drags down WEEI's profitability. (And 98.5 got lucky, too: the spreadsheets couldn't have predicted that the Bruins would be hoisting the Stanley Cup and the Pats would be in the Super Bowl within the station's first couple of years on the air.)

WBMX and WODS provide a female demographic that CBS otherwise doesn't have in its portfolio, and WZLX owns most of what's left of the older rock audience that was once split among WZLX, WBCN, the old 93.7, etc.

So it's back to the bottom line: if you lose the profit you now derive from an inexpensive, high-revenue FM music format, can you make up for that with increased revenue from an FM all-news format...and in this case, balanced not only against the high expenses of that format but also against the potential cannibalization of revenue from a very profitable AM station?

That's a more complex bit of calculus than just giving listeners something "to fall back on when their eyes glaze over."

As for Merlin, it would need to have an FM to buy. In Chicago and New York, Emmis' financial problems made signals available. In Philadelphia, Family Stations was selling. In Boston, everything's locked up in solid clusters. CBS, obviously, isn't selling. Greater Media is doing just fine with its signals and has no incentive to peel one of them off for sale. Clear Channel's not a seller. Entercom's definitely not a seller. The remaining singletons (WXRV, WPLM, WBOQ) are so far from full-market that they'd make no sense as all-newsers, even if they were for sale. (Which they're not.)

Nothing in radio happens in a vacuum. You very rarely get a blank slate. Each market is unique. Each market's history is unique.
 
A very insightful post, Scott! I just hope that those on this board,
who always have something to say, but who are not, and never have been
in the business of broadcasting take heed, and actually learn something!
An example I would use -
(TV, but applies here as well...) the Cosby Show. When it ended
its network run, and went into syndication, the rights were, say, double
the cost of the programming that it replaced. Sound business practice
says that if it did not double the revenue as well - financially, it is a loser.
This is not a comment on the program itself, but strictly a business decision.
Playing armchair quarterback may fly in your local, neighborhood bar -
it does not work in the real world...
 
I guess I'm not the only person out there who doesn't care for call-in shows.

Here is a portion of a commentary from the Allaccess.com site

"
As a radio fan, and before I got into the business, I always hated it when my favorite hosts did their "open mic" hours. Even as a kid I saw that for what it was -- a cheap way to fill time. As the listener, I was tuning in to hear the HOST not the public. There is (or should be) a reason why that guy is behind the mic and not Jake from Nowhereville who wants to launch into a 4 minute incoherent monologue on something only loosely related to the topic at hand.

Of course there are also the hosts who turn every show into an "open mic" hour. Honestly I think these people are hacks. It sounds great to hide behind the mantra of "I want to hear what YOU have to say" but that's just a thin veil used to cover the fact that the HOST apparently has jack sh*t to say. These types of "hosts" run their show like they're working at a call center. It's boring. Plain and simple"
 
Dan Ray owes his broadcasting career to Nixon getting pissed at Westinghouse over Jerry Williams. He was brought in to be the right-wing answer to Williams on Saturday nights, plucked from his spot as one of the wags at Young Americans for Freedom, a bunch of draft-deferred nuts who thought it quite nice that kids less fortunate than they were being sent off to Vietnam. He then spent years on the TV side as the prototype for the Faux news "reporters" we see today; fortunately the damage was minimized when his daytime law career led him to the night beat, which was more car wrecks, murders and fires than politics and gummamint.
 
Rea btw appears as a tv reporter in one film (Reversal of Fortune?) I saw.

Williams btw was seen as liberal in the old days but later called himself populist, anti-statism...a muckraker. I can remember his railing against "hacks and cronies" in state govt.; urging listeners to phone or write legislators in those pre-Net days...getting together with Ralph Nader* to stop "the Congressional pay grab", meeting up with Howie Carr and Barbara Anderson as "the governors"...trying to tell the nation that Dukakis would be a bad choice for prez. ("Unelectable..." sang one caller to the tune of "Unforgettable"). At the very end as he strained to do shows with his disease (Parkinsons, right?...on stations like 950 and 1060) he expressed sadness at the post 9-11 wars (I think Jerry died in 03 or so) rather than a rah-rah attitude (i.e., thought the wars in Afg. and Iraq unnecessary and not run correctly) but some would not call him "liberal" in later years.

*--Nader being anti-government largess rather than anti-big business, here
---
A bit run on Jerry's show:
Pee Wee Herman: What's today's secret word?
Dukakis: Taxes...
(sound of someone screaming)
Pee Wee Herman: So when you hear the secret word...scream real loud!
 
As many of you know there is no bigger fan of nostalgia radio than I am if thats how a station wants to be preceived. While at a recent family Christening
I made a few inquiries among the mid 20 to early 30 year olds that were the dominant age at the function about where they get their news and it does bode well for WBZ. Most ranged from getting their news off the internet to their I phones. When I put the kitchen radio on WBZ and asked if they ever listened to it I got a bizarre collection of answers ranging from I didn't know there was an all news radio station to what station is it near thinking it must be FM;.
Even worse my niece and two nephews replied saying we remember that station: It was one of the stations Nana and Grampy had on in the car when they took us to McDonalds......Grampy has been dead for 9 years. Another woman said right out of Kelly Bundy's vernacular "thats an old peoples station".
Even moved to FM if it still sounds uncontemporary and old the future will not be bright.
 
One detail I forgot to mention makes the picture even more bleak, the majority attending were young urban professionals in Finance, Education and
Health Care.
 
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