KNX Los Angeles and KCBS San Francisco to Simulcast Overnight Programming

[Mark Roberts]

Not radio and TV. Essentially every station there has to have a generator, but if your tower was blown down, or the roof of your building blown off or the transmitter site flooded or wind blew water from the hurricane into your transmitter room, that had nothing to do with "the electric company".

That's a fair point. I gather, then, that electric power supply in Puerto Rico was unreliable to begin with. What were the frequency and voltage stability like?

That reminds me of the entry one used to see in the WRTH for individual countries: after the voltage and line frequency were listed, there would be a (yes) or a (no) to indicate whether the line frequency was reliable enough to run an electric clock.

Wood power poles in the tropics deteriorate very fast, yet there was never a program to replace all of them with cement or metal posts or take cabling underground where possible.

There are fiberglass posts, too, but they don't seem to be widely used.

Undergrounding is expensive. In my Oakland neighborhood, we had a Rule 15b-1 utility undergrounding project, paid for by a fund comprised of assessments on all customers. There were quite a few problems with the program, and CPUC staff kept trying to kill it but for the wrong reasons, so it survived up to last year. It paid 85% of the cost of the undergrounding; property owners who benefited paid the other 15%. Our assessment was about $15,000, so that tells you that the total cost was around $100,000 just for one lot. Admittedly, our project was said to be one of the most challenging in the program due to terrain. But this was 15 years ago; the cost would be higher now.

The same applied for decades to landlines. When I first arrived in 1970, it took me about 4 months to get a phone in my apartment... even with the push of a radio station.

Overall, everything in government infrastructure is deficient... from bridges to electrical power.

Did the government run the telco, too?

 

[KilowattKat]

KBRT night power is only 118 Watts.

I couldn't agree more!

Not to quibble over a measley 72 watts, but for accuracy, fccdata org has nighttime at 190 watts directional.

 

[Larry]

Sure. Where does the money come from? The reason KNX and KCBS are doing this is because there's no money in overnight radio.

I think this is preferable (a combined live broadcast) vs the alternative. KYW (Philly) runs prerecorded newscasts from either 1-5 AM or 2-5 AM with the only element being live are the traffic reports every 10 minutes

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I think this is preferable (a combined live broadcast) vs the alternative. KYW (Philly) runs prerecorded newscasts from either 1-5 AM or 2-5 AM with the only element being live are the traffic reports every 10 minutes

I know this is probably a silly question, but are traffic reports really needed at 2:00 am?

 

[TheBigA]

I know this is probably a silly question, but are traffic reports really needed at 2:00 am?

These kinds of things aren't always done because of need. They may be the only sponsored element in the daypart.

In addition, the format clock is built around continual traffic & weather together every ten minutes.

 

[ted chittenden]

I know this is probably a silly question, but are traffic reports really needed at 2:00 am?

While I don't know about San Francisco or Philadelphia, in Los Angeles, the answer is a definite "yes!" I remember someone telling me back in the early 1980s (when I was attending LMU) that Westwood (the area where UCLA is located) would have full traffic jams at 3)00am. And that happened most mornings on a regular basis.

 

[fybush]

I know this is probably a silly question, but are traffic reports really needed at 2:00 am?

I am sitting at a radio luncheon right now with Andy Anderson, who does overnight traffic on KYW. There's been all kinds of construction and closures going on lately on the Schuylkill and other area roads. Traffic reports there definitely matter, even at 2 AM.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Fox on the West Coast runs a late program after local news called West Coast Wrap. The stations in San Diego don't run it, but it streams over the Fox Local plaform from Fox 11 in Los Angeles. I think it runs on all of the Fox O&Os in the West (LA, Oakland, Phoenix, Seattle, etc.). They have a main anchor, presumably in Los Angeles and all of the stations in the chain contribute the reporter stories. The weather is a regional forecast covering the cities in the area (not as detailed as a dedicated local report, but it does the job, especially since it probably just followed a local newscast that had more detailed weather). It probably is cheaper to run and covers the bigger stories from the region better than each local station could try to do outside of their viewing area.

True and also Fox O&O’s also appear on LiveNow on Fox where the local O&O’s anchors and reports may sometimes appear when there’s breaking news from certain parts of the country.

Nexstar has a similar one for California called “Inside California Politics” originating at Nexstar’s Sacramento affiliate KTXL and all of Nexstar owned stations which includes KSWB, KRON and KTLA in the state air them at some point as their Sunday talk shows.

Nexstar Broadcasting To Expand Weekly Political Affairs Program “Inside California Politics” Statewide On September 13 | Nexstar Media Group, Inc.

Weekly Broadcast Extends Show’s Exclusive Reach to More Than 22 Million Californians SACRAMENTO, California and IRVING, Texas (Sept. 9, 2020) – Nexstar

www.nexstar.tv

 

[powers]

The traffic anchors from 9PM-5AM have covered both markets (I'm surprised reading reports in this thread of the traffic anchors tripping up over the SoCal Freeways) for a year or so.

I didn't know that traffic had been previously done from one station but it makes sense. My friend who does traffic reports here in San Diego (Audacy) also does them for Phoenix and probably some other markets. But now you are simulcasting a traffic report and weather for both regions, making it twice as long and confusing for listeners who live in one of the markets hearing reports for the other. Not to mention some other "nuances" - lots of bridges to report in the Bay Area, none in LA (except Long Beach), common highways (US 101 serves both cities, so does California 1, which is NOT known as PCH north of about Malibu - maybe a little further, and Interstate 5 does link up about 25 miles East of the Bay Area and can sometimes be included in Bay Area traffic reports, definitely in LA) . Also, the SoCal traffic speak tends to use "the" in front of highway numbers, i.e. "the 405, the 101" while in the Bay Area it's just "280, 101" or sometimes "101 The Bayshore Freeway" - also geographically both areas have a "South Bay" and "Inland/Coastal" areas which can cause a little weather confusion.

Like I said before, maybe have a 60 second traffic/weather pad in the overnight news and at least run those relevant elements separately on each station. Since traffic doesn't change too much in overnights and weather almost never does, those elements can be recycled and only refreshed if needed, either by a lone engineer and updater at KNX or recorded separately by someone at KCBS and slotted in to the KNX load.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

I know this is probably a silly question, but are traffic reports really needed at 2:00 am?

Yes when Caltrans has to do roadwork on I-80 or in the event highway 880 gets major accident somebody has to plan accordingly. In the listening area of KCBS they have to account for commuters coming from Tracy and Manteca but have jobs in San Jose.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Fox on the West Coast runs a late program after local news called West Coast Wrap. The stations in San Diego don't run it, but it streams over the Fox Local plaform from Fox 11 in Los Angeles. I think it runs on all of the Fox O&Os in the West (LA, Oakland, Phoenix, Seattle, etc.). They have a main anchor, presumably in Los Angeles and all of the stations in the chain contribute the reporter stories.

If Alex Savidge is still the anchor (it looks like he is), then it's coming from KTVU Oakland.

 

[Weiserguy]

If Alex Savidge is still the anchor (it looks like he is), then it's coming from KTVU Oakland.

Correct. Savidge co-anchors (with Heather Holmes) the 4pm hour from the KTVU studios, then he solo anchors West Coast Wrap at 7 pm, and she solo anchors the local 7:30 half hour, again both from KTVU Oakland/SFBA. (Or I might have the half hours reversed, but it's the same principle.) The other Fox locals take the WCW live or record it for a late time slot. KTTV L.A. runs it at 11:30 after their own newscasts.

 

[Weiserguy]

Even 50 years ago, the overnight traffic in NYC could be a bitch. I sometimes had to get on the Long Island Expressway after midnight coming out of Brooklyn, and invariably the traffic would crawl through Queens at 1 AM, 2 AM or even later. Either direction, it was a mess, and over time it has not gotten any better. Those WINS or WCBS traffic reports were not wasted airtime.

 

[michael hagerty]

Also, the SoCal traffic speak tends to use "the" in front of highway numbers, i.e. "the 405, the 101" while in the Bay Area it's just "280, 101" or sometimes "101 The Bayshore Freeway" - also geographically both areas have a "South Bay" and "Inland/Coastal" areas which can cause a little weather confusion.

Between midnight and 5:00 a.m., I seriously doubt whoever's listening is going to freak over whether someone says "the" or not.

I would hope they're not mixing Southern California and Bay Area traffic together---segueing from something in Emeryville straight to something in Irvine. Past that (speaking as a former traffic anchor), it's pretty simple. Just lead with:

"Sonoma County 101 North/Southbound"

"Marin County 101 North/Southbound"

"San Francisco 101 North/Southbound"

"San Mateo County 101 North/Southbound"

"Santa Clara County 101 North/Southbound"

"Ventura County 101 North/Southbound"

"L.A. County 101 North/Southbound"

Same with Highway 1. You can reinforce anything on SoCal's highway one by calling it PCH...it's almost never used up here.

...and you can do the same with the weather---just add "Southern California" or "Northern California" to "South Bay" or "Inland/Coastal Areas".

 

[KilowattKat]

Listening again this morning...

After CBS TOH news, they alternated news stories between both regions, with reporters at the end of their report, only stating their name with the calls removed in editing. It's very generic, once again give it a 'name' (5 hour block), and use a sounder and better mention when switching regions on traffic and weather. You're spouting out alot of info to listeners who could care less about freeway conditions in LA when you're in the Bay area. Even state at the beginning..."And now traffic together for Southern California and the Bay Area, first a look at traffic on the freeways in SoCal..." When I heard it, she just jumped right into the LA freeways (not literally!).

 

[K.M. Richards]

... common highways (US 101 serves both cities, so does California 1, which is NOT known as PCH north of about Malibu - maybe a little further ...

As a SoCal native who grew up in Ventura County, I can attest that California 1 is only known as PCH until it hits that shortish freeway segment between Point Mugu NAS and the Oxnard city limits.

 

[TomásEstefan]

That's not true. New designs have made AM transmitter much more efficient... it used to be that a 5 kw transmitter in the tube era would use about 10 to 12 kw hours of electricity. Today, it is more like 7 to 8 kw hours with enhanced modulation techniques and less AC and cooling. FM transmitters, too, are more efficient with solid state, but most of the difference is in the cost of cooling the transmitter and cooling the transmitter building when the weather is warm.

And with today's electricity costs, running any transmitter can be expensive. Think of it this way... transmitters are not 100% efficient. So the get one watt out, an AM transmitter and cooling may use up to 2 watts of power, and an FM today about a watt and a half.

That is a good point. It's better to be there for listeners all the time, so that they never leave the radio on a different station.

The reason why I don't understand operations like the Pacifica stations is that it is so hard to tell what is on at any given time.... and if you tune in at random, chances are that you will hear something you don't like. Consistent formats, 24/7 are all the more critical in the internet age where seekers of specific content or music know exactly where to find it at all hours of the day.

For Pacifica you need to go to the station's website and look at the program schedule or grid to see what's on. Just about the same as looking at the your daily newspapers' "radio guide" for almost all stations back in the 1940s and 50s.

 

[radiofan2023]

For Pacifica you need to go to the station's website and look at the program schedule or grid to see what's on. Just about the same as looking at the your daily newspapers' "radio guide" for almost all stations back in the 1940s and 50s.

But once you know when the shows you want to listen to are on, you can put a reminder in your phone for them. A lot of their shows are distributed as podcasts also (Ralph Nader’s show, Democracy Now!, etc.).

 

[Mark Roberts]

But once you know when the shows you want to listen to are on, you can put a reminder in your phone for them. A lot of their shows are distributed as podcasts also (Ralph Nader’s show, Democracy Now!, etc.).

Moreover, stations of that type should be well positioned for podcasting. They may also archive some of their shows for replaying upon demand.

 

[davideduardo]

That's a fair point. I gather, then, that electric power supply in Puerto Rico was unreliable to begin with. What were the frequency and voltage stability like?

I was GM, programmer, sales manager, station manager and consultant for stations in PR from my first job, GM of WUNO, in 1970 to my last consulting of WKAQ and WKAQ FM about 4 years ago... 50 years in total.

So I have a good deal of experience with the infrastructure. Power was good and clean in most places... stable voltages, solid frequency. The issues were all about the fact that power plants had no redundancy, and insignificant reserve capacity.

In the period from the 70's through the 90's, it was uncommon to have a week go by when the power did not go out at least once. It improved by Y2K somewhat, but power did go out much more often than on the mainland. Much has to do with the fact that Puerto Rico, and island, is not connected to a regional power grid.

We have seen what not being part of a wide grid has done in recent years in Texas, even though Texas is about 200 times larger than Puerto Rico.

And in Puerto Rico, tropical storms and hurricanes are very common, with winds and very heavy rains taking out power lines and the roads needed to get in to fix them.

At the WQII studios and WZNT studios and transmitter, we even had a backup generator for the main generator. We also kept enough fuel for 7 to 8 days.

That reminds me of the entry one used to see in the WRTH for individual countries: after the voltage and line frequency were listed, there would be a (yes) or a (no) to indicate whether the line frequency was reliable enough to run an electric clock.

I remember seeing that when I owned stations in Ecuador. They listed us as unstable, yet I never detected any variation in frequency.

There are fiberglass posts, too, but they don't seem to be widely used.

I once asked about that, and was told that the ones available about 30 or so years ago could not hold substantial power lines in even 80 MPH winds... quite common there.

Undergrounding is expensive.

It is also not practical in soft hilly areas where the topsoil can be totally washed away in a big storm.

Did the government run the telco, too?

Yes, and for a while there were two, both gum'mint run, serving different areas. As I mentioned, it took weeks if not months to get a new landline.

And that was better than Ecuador, where I was told one to two years for a new line for my new radio station in 1964. We got several lines by buying the "rights" to them from the heirs of people who died or a business that closed.

The first I got, 234-595, cost me S/. 1,500 to purchase. That was the studio line for Radio Musical, HCRM, 570 AM which went on the air 61 years ago last Friday.