DavidEduardo said:
Huh? Perhaps in LA. What about in the Riverside-San Bernardino metro?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
KOLA
- Thread starter ebol
- Start date
Huh? Perhaps in LA. What about in the Riverside-San Bernardino metro?
AM FM listener said:
KOLA is an IE signal; while it touches the most eastern parts of LA and Orange counties, it couldn't get more than perhaps a 0.4 in 25-54 in LA with a 60's based "all the songs that charted in in the top 20" type format.
My estimate was for the IE MSA.
AM FM listener said:
You don't get 25-54 year old listeners by playing 44-49 year old stiffs.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
But stations manage to attract those same listeners by playing 44-to-49-year-old hits. And how many listeners are like me and have no desire to hear those overplayed burned-out hits over and over and over? I'd much rather hear seldom-played low-charting songs than to hear Brown Eyed Girl or Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye for the 50,000th time. May I share with you my slogan for the typical oldies station?: "Songs you got sick of in high school."
LARadioRewind said:
But they don't. These are the same stations that you're complaining don't play the 60s much anymore. Give me a weekday hour off any Classic Hits station's playlist, and I guarantee you, the majority of songs will be from the 70s, there'll be some 80s, maybe even one from the 90s and one or two from the 60s. And they're hits that test well...that the target audience has told the station through music tests they want to hear and are least likely to tune out.
And in the top 10 markets, Classic Hits stations are doing very well. Mostly Top 5 overall and doing as well in 25-54 as can be expected given that the music is probably still 10 or 12 years too old on average. But music research has identified the songs that will hold the target audience.
One more analogy: The average radio listener (and if you're trying to win 25-54, you'd better be aiming at 40 year old females) uses the radio for a purpose. It's to set the right mood and pace for a certain time of her day. She's not looking for surprises. Throwing in a song that peaked at #20 (or even one that went all the way to #1 but doesn't test well today) every 11th song "for variety" is as welcome to that person as getting on a plane to New York for a job interview and finding out the airline is taking every 11th New York flight to Fargo instead "just to mix things up a bit".
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Mister hagerty, I picked an hour of KRTH at random; here is what they played (or should I say "over-played") in the 3 pm hour today:
It's Not Unusual (1965)
Always & Forever (1978)
Heart & Soul - Lewis (1983)
Fantasy (1978)
A Beautiful Morning (1968)
The Loco-Motion - Grand Funk (1974)
This Old Heart Of Mine (1966)
Saturday In The Park (1972)
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (1983)
Miracles - Starship (1975)
Drive My Car (1965 UK, 1966 US)
Love Train (1973)
Fantasy peaked at #32 and is one of the few non-top-ten hits played on KRTH. In that hour---the only one I checked---half of the 12 songs are from the '70s. Of course KRTH ignores the first four years of the 1960s so I guess we can't expect a preponderance of '60s songs.
It's Not Unusual (1965)
Always & Forever (1978)
Heart & Soul - Lewis (1983)
Fantasy (1978)
A Beautiful Morning (1968)
The Loco-Motion - Grand Funk (1974)
This Old Heart Of Mine (1966)
Saturday In The Park (1972)
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (1983)
Miracles - Starship (1975)
Drive My Car (1965 UK, 1966 US)
Love Train (1973)
Fantasy peaked at #32 and is one of the few non-top-ten hits played on KRTH. In that hour---the only one I checked---half of the 12 songs are from the '70s. Of course KRTH ignores the first four years of the 1960s so I guess we can't expect a preponderance of '60s songs.
I don't think you are ever going to "get it", Steve.
Was it YOU who mentioned Mojo Men?? Few listeners would ever remember "Sit Down I Think I Love You" and please tell us (since you referenced 'Fantasy') how high that charted on the Billboard list.
Was it YOU who mentioned Mojo Men?? Few listeners would ever remember "Sit Down I Think I Love You" and please tell us (since you referenced 'Fantasy') how high that charted on the Billboard list.
michael hagerty said:
You stole my idea.... ;D
Hearing one "so-called stiff" every 12th song, is not going to drive listeners away in droves. In fact, people tune away from hearing overly repeated music weekly. It's called being human.
Same goes for LA weather, people love sunny days...but eventually the repetitious cycle of clear sunny days in December since summer, will want nearly all, hoping for rain to green up the hillsides and mitigate the fire danger. People like change.
LARadioRewind said:
Strikes me as a pretty good hour. I'm guessing if it were a weekday, there might be fewer than 4 60s songs per hour, which would make more sense, given the target.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Mister Super, I certainly remember Sit Down I Think I Love You. It got to only #36 nationally but here in Los Angeles reached #9 on the KFWB Fabulous Forty and #7 on the KHJ Boss 30. I also like the original version by Buffalo Springfield. I'd love to hear both versions played again. And if you'll look up there, you'll see that I did mention the peak position of Fantasy. KRTH also plays the Isley Brothers' Shout, another low-charting song (in 1959 and 1962), proving that a low-charting '60s song isn't necessarily a song that no one wants to hear in 2013. No further questions, your honor.
The Mojo Men----Sit Down I Think I love You I remember it well! Good song! People like music that sounds good and brings back good feelings of their youth without any thought of how or where it charted! Anyone remember "Framed" by The Robins? I do another great song! By the way I was born the year it charted 1954! We can all love the music of the past whether we were born then or fifty years later! Just because overpaid radio pro's can't sell the song today doesn't make it any less of a great song or any of the others either! It just shows that things have changed as we've gotten older.
RadioStarOne said:
Overpaid?
Nick Summers
I've been in solidarity with Oldies76 and LARR all along, and agree with them. I am now pretty much stuck listening to KOLA a lot since Playlist92.7 (Adelanto) flipped. I really hear the repetition and it drives me nuts. I've been listening to KOLA for many years, going back to the late 70s and my opinion is they have gotten much worse over time. I know it used to be Oldies and more recently became Classic Hits, IMO it was better as an oldies station. How many more times do I have to hear "wanna be starting something", "bennie & the jets", "edge of seventeen" or "more than a feeling"? I want VARIETY, not repetition! At least Playlist, even though it was similar to a Jack type format, played some good music, with tons of variety. KOLA, which is the only FM station that comes in well in my area (N. Rancho Cucamonga), is starting to get really boring, and I never thought I'd say that. At one time, it was my favorite station.
I'd love to hear some so-called "stiffs" once in a while, just for variety. I know it won't happen, for the many reasons DE and Michael H laid out, but still I can wish. You know what some of my favorite CD's (remember those?) are? The "Super Hits of the 70s" Rhino discs. There's lots of what could be called "stiffs" on those discs, but I have the entire set of 25 CD's and like to just listen to them like a time capsule. That's the type of music I grew up with, remember fondly, and wish I could hear on the radio today. I know I mentioned this before, but it wouldn't bother me at all to hear the Partridge Family right after Led Zeppelin...since I like pretty much everything from that time period, I wouldn't be a "button pusher" if I heard this type of variety. In fact, I would listen longer just to see what they would play next. I like to be surprised, but I guess the average listener doesn't, according to all the research.
I'd love to hear some so-called "stiffs" once in a while, just for variety. I know it won't happen, for the many reasons DE and Michael H laid out, but still I can wish. You know what some of my favorite CD's (remember those?) are? The "Super Hits of the 70s" Rhino discs. There's lots of what could be called "stiffs" on those discs, but I have the entire set of 25 CD's and like to just listen to them like a time capsule. That's the type of music I grew up with, remember fondly, and wish I could hear on the radio today. I know I mentioned this before, but it wouldn't bother me at all to hear the Partridge Family right after Led Zeppelin...since I like pretty much everything from that time period, I wouldn't be a "button pusher" if I heard this type of variety. In fact, I would listen longer just to see what they would play next. I like to be surprised, but I guess the average listener doesn't, according to all the research.
SolidGold16 said:
The year after KOLA switched formats from oldies to classic hits, billings increased by about a third.
KOLA is the only significant station in the IE whose billings are as high now as they were in 2006/07 before the recession. While stations like KFRG are off 40% from those years, KOLA is even.
Demographically, KOLA is in a much better position in 25-54 than it was before the switch, too.
SolidGold16 said:
You know, many of us dislike the repetition. Radio used to have fun with it's audiences, more songs, more "stiffs", more variety, better in depth specials, holiday weekend countdown and features, true requests shows, knowledgable talent and so forth. Those days are unfortunately gone (Diary days..) and radio probably will never return to it's glory days. Radio is slowly on it's way out. Look at AM radio!
Look at Jack, iHeart, Clear Channel stations..all auto programmed it seems! There's no room for "error" as they say. Nothing personal about radio anymore. The 70's and 80's were the best times for radio, even on KRTH, KOLA, KGGI and XTRA 690.
There's been a long discussion on the "tune Out factor" under 60's 70's and 80's hits and none of us are getting anywhere.
Want the "stiffs", unfortunately we have to resort to MP3 players and internet radio nowadays.
It's over.
oldies76 said:
Guys, I have a fairly comprehensive collection of unscoped airchecks from 1956-2000 (plus access, as a charter contributor, to thousands more at ReelRadio). And the reality is this: The "lost oldie" is a fairly recent and short-lived phenomenon.
In the 1950s and 1960s, song that weren't breaking out of the 20s within 3 weeks were gone from the playlist, never to be heard again (I learned as a kid...if a song I liked wasn't burning up the charts, I needed to buy a copy fast. Because not only was radio going to stop playing it, but stores would be returning stock, and the record company would cut it from their catalog. It'd be out of print in a year).
Even the hits came off the air once they fell off the chart, and were "rested" for a year.
After that year, only the biggest (usually top 5) came back. And nine years later, they'd be gone for good. Too old.
In the 1970s, three things changed.
1. Stations introduced the "recurrent"...a category of songs that had fallen off the chart anywhere from that day to one year before. Mostly top 10s, and when the hit the one year mark, only the top 5s made it to oldies. But it gave those songs an extra year of life.
2. Adult contemporary and fulltime oldies stations launched...playing songs back to the birth of rock and roll...a whopping 15 years.
3. Top 40s cut their oldies libraries and rarely went back beyond five years.
What happened next was that AC and oldies attracted competition (and competed with each other). And the ones that played more hits and fewer stiffs started winning. KRTH was actually driven out of the oldies format in less than four years and went AC. The 1985 countdown of #1 records was a stunt KRTH used to test the waters to see if Oldies might be viable again 9 years after they abandoned ship.
Even then, KRTH didn't become a ratings giant until Bill Drake consulted in 1992...and by then, it was all about songs that tested well. And if it tests well, it should be in regular play.
In the other thread, David posted information about the stations KRTH shares audience with. And I've discussed before how many minutes a day the average listener spends.
If all you listen to is classic hits, then, yeah...you're gonna burn fast.
But if you understand how the target listener uses the medium, you know that because of your rotations, they're only hearing Brown Eyed Girl every three weeks or so. And they're not keeping track. All they know is it's been a while. And since then, they've heard a bunch of their favorite songs...once.
michael hagerty said:
And the sticking point is (and always will be): Who says that all the songs that are played are their favorites, ALL their favorites? They are not all my favorites or Firepoints or whoever. If people like "Couldn't Get it Right" from 1977, why can't that be heard? The fact of the matter is that not everyone's favorites are being played. Some yes, but not all. And that's the issue.
How hard is that to understand?....you know it too.
Like I said, EVERY song is playable today, it just has to be played at the right time and managed correctly. Play the tested hits, great, but sneak in a few lost gems too.
We are going around in circles here and Billy Preston would agree. ;D
oldies76 said:
And here's what I've been saying for months:
They aren't ALL their favorites.
They are the songs that the fewest listeners in the target say they dislike.
(Analogy time again)
It's like trying to figure out what to serve folks who come over to watch the game when you've only got money for one thing. You could get sushi. And if you know your friends all like sushi, that's smart (finding that out constitutes research).
But if you've got 10 people coming over and one likes sushi, one likes hot dogs, one likes hamburgers, one likes sub sandwiches, one likes salads, one likes mac n' cheese, one likes barbecue ribs, one likes tacos, one likes fried chicken and one likes fish and chips....but the one and only thing they all like is pizza.....you order the pizza.
oldies76 said:
Perhaps if I quantify things...
There are, in classic hits, somewhere between 700 and 900 songs out of the thousands that were hits between perhaps 1968 and 1984 (and a smattering of pre-68 and a bit of post-84 stuff) which virtually everyone either loves, likes or is neutral about.
(You can think about songs as belonging to quintiles: Love, like, neutral, dislike and hate... based on scores from zero to 100)
The rest fall into distinct and declining groups:
Those that have a split of likes & loves and dislikes and hates... as many people can't stand the song as those that like it. These are polarizing songs... some may be crossovers from other genres, or represent styles that are out of fashion... like disco.
There is also a group of songs that everyone finds neutral. Neither like not hate. Often these are songs by big artists, but are, perhaps, the less "stellar" of their recordings.
Those that fewer people like or love, while more people are neutral and a significant percentage dislike or hate them. Maybe 80% fall in the lowest three quintiles.
Those that have only a tiny percentage like or love, fewer people are neutral about and the rest either dislike or hate.
And then there are those that nobody likes anymore.
When you look at the songs classified this way, you can see that the PPM will only accept playing the songs that have almost no dislikes or hates, and where the fewest people are neutral on them while most are positive.
That eliminates most of the charting songs from those years. And, what it also means is that most songs that did not make it to the top 50 or 60 positions for the year are just not keepers. Hmm.... 50 times 14 is, bingo, 700!
- Status