KOLA

[SuperRadioFan]

Like I said, EVERY song is playable today, it just has to be played at the right time

You're right, songs like "Billy Don't Be a Hero", "Delta Dawn", and "The Night Chicago Died" are playable and the right time would be ... uh .. 2:49 am

 

[michael hagerty]

Like I said, EVERY song is playable today, it just has to be played at the right time

You're right, songs like "Billy Don't Be a Hero", "Delta Dawn", and "The Night Chicago Died" are playable and the right time would be ... uh .. 2:49 am

Not in Los Angeles. Or anywhere. Not only don't PPM recievers sleep, but what if that 2:49 AM tune-out spends a couple of days getting back to the offending station? Or worse says "If they're gonna play stuff like that, I'm outta here."? The potential losses are huge. There is no good time for a bad record choice.

 

[Thomps2525]

So you're telling me I'd just be wasting my time if I called KOLA and asked them to play Dis-Gorilla, Groovy Grubworm, Yo-Yo, Papa Loves Mambo, Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep and Ode To The Little Brown Shack Out Back?

Mister Eduardo likes to cite "research." Unfortunately, when researchers come across those of us who want an oldies station that plays every top-40 hit of the 1950s-60s-70s, we're dismissed as "music nuts." We're not part of the "target audience." Programmers want "the masses," not the "music nuts." Here is a question which I can't answer. (I'm good at asking those.) Do radio listeners of 2013 mostly just use radio as background noise? Did listeners pay more attention to the music and the DJs (and yes, even the ads) in the '50s and '60s? I'm guessing that those of us who were teenagers in the '60s could sing almost every top-20 hit. In 2013, maybe nobody knows all the words to any current hits. Maybe radio today is just, as I said, background noise. That could explain the repetition and the dinky playlists of almost every station, regardless of format. Listeners aren't paying close attention to the radio when it's on but they hear just well enough to know when an unfamiliar song comes on. If there are too many of those...<click!>

 

[michael hagerty]

So you're telling me I'd just be wasting my time if I called KOLA and asked them to play Dis-Gorilla, Groovy Grubworm, Yo-Yo, Papa Loves Mambo, Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep and Ode To The Little Brown Shack Out Back?

Yes, but where were you when Bobby Rich was doing the Turkey Hour on KFMB in San Diego in 1975, 76 and early '77?

Mister Eduardo likes to cite "research." Unfortunately, when researchers come across those of us who want an oldies station that plays every top-40 hit of the 1950s-60s-70s, we're dismissed as "music nuts." We're not part of the "target audience." Programmers want "the masses," not the "music nuts." Here is a question which I can't answer. (I'm good at asking those.) Do radio listeners of 2013 mostly just use radio as background noise? Did listeners pay more attention to the music and the DJs (and yes, even the ads) in the '50s and '60s? I'm guessing that those of us who were teenagers in the '60s could sing almost every top-20 hit. In 2013, maybe nobody knows all the words to any current hits. Maybe radio today is just, as I said, background noise. That could explain the repetition and the dinky playlists of almost every station, regardless of format. Listeners aren't paying close attention to the radio when it's on but they hear just well enough to know when an unfamiliar song comes on. If there are too many of those...<click!>

It's not background noise...if it were, it wouldn't be critical what got played. They listen. They want specific songs.

I'm 56. 57 in March. And I can tell you, the vast majority of kids I knew growing up weren't as into music as I was and really wanted the disc jockey (including some legendary talent) to shut up and play the music.

 

[oldies76]

Not in Los Angeles. Or anywhere. Not only don't PPM recievers sleep, but what if that 2:49 AM tune-out spends a couple of days getting back to the offending station? Or worse says "If they're gonna play stuff like that, I'm outta here."? The potential losses are huge. There is no good time for a bad record choice.

Really though, who listens to the radio at 2, 3, 4am?? Heck I don't. It's abnormal and it's a very, very small percentage as compared to morning drive or afternoon drive. Maybe graveyard shift workers or taxi drivers in Vegas. Playing "Delta Dawn" at 730am on a LA Freeway is one thing, but at 3am, when the roads are 95% emptier? And who says they are bad records? It wasn't bad in 1973 nor is it at 3am, when the majority of the LA basin is asleep, if you're worried about tuneout.

You want a bad record, try "Da Do Ron Ron" by Cassidy.

 

[michael hagerty]

Not in Los Angeles. Or anywhere. Not only don't PPM recievers sleep, but what if that 2:49 AM tune-out spends a couple of days getting back to the offending station? Or worse says "If they're gonna play stuff like that, I'm outta here."? The potential losses are huge. There is no good time for a bad record choice.

Really though, who listens to the radio at 2, 3, 4am?? Heck I don't. It's abnormal and it's a very, very small percentage as compared to morning drive or afternoon drive. Maybe graveyard shift workers or taxi drivers in Vegas. Playing "Delta Dawn" at 730am on a LA Freeway is one thing, but at 3am, when the roads are 95% emptier? And who says they are bad records? It wasn't bad in 1973 nor is it at 3am, when the majority of the LA basin is asleep.

You want a bad record, try "Da Do Ron Ron" by Cassidy.

Gee, I thought every record was playable....especially if it was #1.

Abnormal? Wow. The people who bake the bread you eat, police the neighborhood you sleep in, fight the fires that break out....and in a city the size of Los Angeles, that's a significant number of people. But even if it's just one PPM user who tunes away at 2:49 AM (and Arbitron isn't measuring listening between Midnight and 6), that's a PPM panelist whose radio is no longer tuned to (let's pretend) KRTH....and may not be when Arbitron wakes back up at dawn.

And, as we've been over it before and you've been paying close attention, how many listeners does that one PPM panelist represent? How big a hit is that to the ratings? And what if two PPM panelists are night owls (cramming for night school finals, up with a colicky baby) and tune out?

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister hagerty, your friends may have wanted only music...but who in the world would have said "Shut up!" to Gary Owens...or Rick Dees...or Dick Whittinghill...or Dick Whittington...or Dick Haynes...or Emperor Hudson...or Robert W. Morgan...or Bruce Morrow...or Dave Hull...or Bill Ballance...or Jack Carney...or Russ Knight...or Charlie Tuna...or Casey Kasem...or Arnie Ginsburg...or Larry Lujack...or Dick Biondi...or Jack Armstrong...or Joey Reynolds...or Lohman & Barkley...or.....

Do you remember in 1967 when the short-lived "Super 15" KBLA in Burbank fired all their DJs and went to automation? The idea was to be "all music, all the time." In between the top-40 hits and oldies, instrumental music played during spoken-word commercials so there really was music every second of the day. But the station sounded like a jukebox: no personality. The experiment didn't last long.

 

[davideduardo]

Abnormal? Wow. The people who bake the bread you eat, police the neighborhood you sleep in, fight the fires that break out....and in a city the size of Los Angeles, that's a significant number of people. But even if it's just one PPM user who tunes away at 2:49 AM (and Arbitron isn't measuring listening between Midnight and 6), that's a PPM panelist whose radio is no longer tuned to (let's pretend) KRTH....and may not be when Arbitron wakes back up at dawn.

A little correction here...

The PPM device is always measuring, whether being carried or in the dock. However, Arbitron has an algorithm that processes the data and is based on docking time (and ensuing lack of motion) and by which if there is a pattern of no motion, any detection is not tabulated. The metered data is tabulated from 5 AM (IIRC) even if there is no motion, and at any time if there is motion.

In a number of markets, including LA, many stations sell Morning Drive as 5 AM to 10 AM.

The midnight, 1 AM, 2AM, 3 AM, 4 AM and 5 AM hours are available in the basic PPM software to all subscribers.

What is interesting is that weekday Midnight -6 AM listening levels are comparable with late evening Saturday and Sunday listening... time periods that several of the "Play 'em all" oldies fans use to show that some obscure or very old oldies are being played.

 

[oldies76]

Gee, I thought every record was playable....especially if it was #1.

It's playable, but I dislike that version. The Crystals are many, many times better.

 

[Thomps2525]

Explain to me why the label of the number-one hit He's A Rebel credited the Crystals even though it was sung by Darlene Love and the Blossoms. Fifty years later and I still don't get that one! (And yes, I know Gene Pitney wrote the song; at least he got proper credit.)

 

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty, your friends may have wanted only music...but who in the world would have said "Shut up!" to Gary Owens...or Rick Dees...or Dick Whittinghill...or Dick Whittington...or Dick Haynes...or Emperor Hudson...or Robert W. Morgan...or Bruce Morrow...or Dave Hull...or Bill Ballance...or Jack Carney...or Russ Knight...or Charlie Tuna...or Casey Kasem...or Arnie Ginsburg...or Larry Lujack...or Dick Biondi...or Jack Armstrong...or Joey Reynolds...or Lohman & Barkley...or.....

Most of those guys are big favorites of mine. But I'll tell you, most listeners didn't care. A jock with a 10 share is a big deal. It also means 90% of the people listening to the radio aren't listening to him.

The audience has been telling us "less talk...more music" for 50 years. It's part of why KRLA beat KFWB and a huge part of why KHJ beat them both (not to mention KLOS and KMET beating KHJ).

Do you remember in 1967 when the short-lived "Super 15" KBLA in Burbank fired all their DJs and went to automation? The idea was to be "all music, all the time." In between the top-40 hits and oldies, instrumental music played during spoken-word commercials so there really was music every second of the day. But the station sounded like a jukebox: no personality. The experiment didn't last long.

True. They brought back the jocks.

Then, in June of that same year, fired them all and went Country.

 

[oldies76]

Even then, KRTH didn't become a ratings giant until Bill Drake consulted in 1992...and by then, it was all about songs that tested well. And if it tests well, it should be in regular play.

Oh yeah, those LA Times articles referencing KRTH as a station with a very tight playlist. In fact, too tight! Wasn't that the period that KRTH had less than 400 songs in rotation under Jay Coffey?

Nice way to nearly ruin a legendary station....glad Mr. Kaye took over in 2005 and changed things around. Although still short on hit songs and unspectacular weekend specials, KRTH has much improved from the 1990's. I'll give them credit.

 

[michael hagerty]

Even then, KRTH didn't become a ratings giant until Bill Drake consulted in 1992...and by then, it was all about songs that tested well. And if it tests well, it should be in regular play.

Oh yeah, those LA Times articles referencing KRTH as a station with a very tight playlist. In fact, too tight! Wasn't that the period that KRTH had less than 400 songs in rotation under Jay Coffey?

Nice way to nearly ruin a legendary station....

Mike Phillips was KRTH's PD when Drake consulted. I believe Drake moved on after four years, so 1996. Phillips was PD until 2001. Jay Coffey took over then. The numbers didn't start suffering until 2004. So it worked for 12 years. Those were the years that KRTH became a legendary station.

Coffey took it too far. He was at 300 tracks and repeated a list of power songs (Satisfaction, My Girl, Doo Wah Diddy, Pretty Woman, Stop In The Name Of Love and a few dozen others) every 13 hours, 24/7/365. So let's say "Satisfaction". If it played at 6AM Monday, it'd be played again at 7PM Monday, 8AM Tuesday, 9PM Tuesday, 10AM Wednesday, 11 PM Wednesday, Noon Thursday, 1AM Friday, 2PM Friday, 3 AM Saturday, 4PM Saturday, 5AM Sunday, 6PM Sunday, 7AM Monday and so on.

Not only was that way too quick a rotation, but he only had 250-275 "lesser" titles left, so they got overplayed too. But, again because most people only listen a few minutes a day, usually at about the same time, and listen to other stations, it took a while to catch up with him. When it did, it was the perfect storm: Declining cume, declining share and an audience that was way too old (because Coffey was leery of stuff recorded after 1970, and didn't play much of it).

Jhani Kaye saved KRTH. The music library is about 800 titles (all testing well), rotations are such that the typical target listener doesn't hear any song more than once in three weeks, but almost always hears a song they really like.

Result: 13th place and dropping like a rock in the Arbitrons to a consistent 5th place in less than 5 years....maintaining that level for the past two.

 

[Thomps2525]

I forget the year---1997 or 1998, maybe?---but there was a time when KRTH's active playlist was down to a measly 330 songs. Every year during the 4th of July, KRTH plays the listener-voted "Firecracker 300." There were a few years in the '80s when the list included songs as recent as one year. When the playlist had shrunk to 330 burned-out songs, KRTH ran an ad in the Los Angeles Times listing the songs in alphabetical order with a tiny box next to each. Listeners were instructed to choose their five favorite songs on the list and mark them with an X, then send the list to KRTH. What was the point? We knew that all but 30 of those songs would be on the Top 300. If Jhani Kaye ever allowed us to vote for any song, any year, any format, I wonder what the Top 300 would look like.

 

[michael hagerty]

I forget the year---1997 or 1998, maybe?---but there was a time when KRTH's active playlist was down to a measly 330 songs. Every year during the 4th of July, KRTH plays the listener-voted "Firecracker 300." There were a few years in the '80s when the list included songs as recent as one year. When the playlist had shrunk to 330 burned-out songs, KRTH ran an ad in the Los Angeles Times listing the songs in alphabetical order with a tiny box next to each. Listeners were instructed to choose their five favorite songs on the list and mark them with an X, then send the list to KRTH. What was the point? We knew that all but 30 of those songs would be on the Top 300. If Jhani Kaye ever allowed us to vote for any song, any year, any format, I wonder what the Top 300 would look like.

I think KRTH's list was 400+ during the Mike Phillips years (1991-2001). Jay Coffey took them to 300 from 2001-2005.

If Jhani Kaye ever allowed newspaper readers to vote for any song, any year, any format, and followed through, I'd be wondering what the Arbitrons would look like.

Never mind...I know.

 

[Thomps2525]

1. Gangnam Style
2. Stairway To Heaven
3. Imagine
4. Friends In Low Places
5. My Heart Will Go On
6. Hey Jude
7. Satisfaction
8. Star Dust
9. Jailhouse Rock
10. Born This Way

Am I close?

 

[michael hagerty]

1. Gangnam Style
2. Stairway To Heaven
3. Imagine
4. Friends In Low Places
5. My Heart Will Go On
6. Hey Jude
7. Satisfaction
8. Star Dust
9. Jailhouse Rock
10. Born This Wa

Am I close?

As I said to a guy here in Phoenix in the mid-90s who put a brand new FM on the air and then programmed it by putting every record to make Billboard's Top 40 from 1955-1995 in equal rotation (true story):

You got five real interesting radio stations there.

 

[oldies76]

I think KRTH's list was 400+ during the Mike Phillips years (1991-2001). Jay Coffey took them to 300 from 2001-2005.

And during the Bob Hamilton era (the best, in my opinion) in the 80's, the Firecracker 300 included songs like "Stairway To Heaven" reaching number one on that list and probably a few near -currents.

 

[michael hagerty]

I think KRTH's list was 400+ during the Mike Phillips years (1991-2001). Jay Coffey took them to 300 from 2001-2005.

And during the Bob Hamilton era (the best, in my opinion) in the 80's, the Firecracker 300 included songs like "Stairway To Heaven" reaching number one on that list and probably a few near -currents.

Well, Hamilton's era was when KRTH was AC. They played about 40% gold and did oldies weekends, but they were a current music station, so inclusion of those songs made sense.

 

[michael hagerty]

In fact, Radio & Records infuriated RKO by putting KRTH's playlist in their CHR section instead of AC. RKO still had KHJ in the Top 40 format and wanted to position the two as complimenting each other, not competing, but R&R didn't budge until '82 or so, when the music was soft enough to draw a distinction (though it was still arguably closer to KIIS than to KOST) and KHJ had long since gone Country.

I agree, Hamilton (and music director Guy Zapolean) had KRTH running like a Swiss watch for a few years, but they really did cannibalize KHJ. During John Sebastian's run as PD of KHJ, KRTH was the one with the higher-energy presentation.