KOLA

[oldies76]

Well, Hamilton's era was when KRTH was AC. They played about 40% gold and did oldies weekends, but they were a current music station, so inclusion of those songs made sense.

When did KRTH begin to eliminate currents from rotation? I seem to recall them playing oldies from the mid 80's (1985 or 1986) onward. So that would mean that those holiday weekend specials (like the #1's) were considered an oldies weekend. I just don't recall what was played during the workweeks back then. Also, when did Bob begin his PD stint at K-Earth?

 

[airpab]

I can name a few very good sounding stations that do very well in their respective markets...Their playlists clearly more extensive, flexible and more fun to listen to! You'll hear songs on any of these 3 stations that you'd never hear on KRTH!

-KONO/101.1....San Antonio
-KKLZ/96.3......Las Vegas
-KOOL/94.5......Phoenix

These stations blow KRTH's music mix right out of the water!

Research is overrated. Not insignifcant, not worthless, but overrated! It paints Programmers and Corporate suits into a predictable, boring, corporate-sounding box!

GREAT programming still comes in part, from the gut! An instinctual feel for the market, with an instinctual feel for playing the "good stuff". The guys and/or gals programming at the above mentioned, seem to be able to walk the fine line...The result is great sounding, non-stale, successful, fun-to-listen to radio!

Give em all a good listen online and you'll hear the difference!

 

[michael hagerty]

Well, Hamilton's era was when KRTH was AC. They played about 40% gold and did oldies weekends, but they were a current music station, so inclusion of those songs made sense.

When did KRTH begin to eliminate currents from rotation? I seem to recall them playing oldies from the mid 80's (1985 or 1986) onward. So that would mean that those holiday weekend specials (like the #1's) were considered an oldies weekend. I just don't recall what was played during the workweeks back then. Also, when did Bob begin his PD stint at K-Earth?

Bob was PD from 1977-1986. They transitioned to oldies after he left, but I don't remember who was PD. The numbers were never great, they were often beat by KRLA and, after 1989, KODJ. It wasn't until Bill Drake came aboard in 1992 with Morgan and Steele that it was really successful as an oldies station, apart from the 2 good years they had at the beginning (1972-1974).

 

[michael hagerty]

I can name a few very good sounding stations that do very well in their respective markets...Their playlists clearly more extensive, flexible and more fun to listen to! You'll hear songs on any of these 3 stations that you'd never hear on KRTH!

-KONO/101.1....San Antonio
-KKLZ/96.3......Las Vegas
-KOOL/94.5......Phoenix

These stations blow KRTH's music mix right out of the water!

Research is overrated. Not insignifcant, not worthless, but overrated! It paints Programmers and Corporate suits into a predictable, boring, corporate-sounding box!

GREAT programming still comes in part, from the gut! An instinctual feel for the market, with an instinctual feel for playing the "good stuff". The guys and/or gals programming at the above mentioned, seem to be able to walk the fine line...The result is great sounding, non-stale, successful, fun-to-listen to radio!

Give em all a good listen online and you'll hear the difference!

I can't speak to Vegas or San Antonio, but I live in Phoenix, and while KOOL is very good, I don't know that I'd say they take more chances than KRTH. Dave Shakes is a great PD, but he plays by the same proven rules as anyone else. "Going with your gut" and "knowing the market" today means wondering why a song that seems likely isn't in rotation, scheduling it for the next music test, and if it scores well, adding it (if it doesn't score well, you just answered the initial question).

Again, I don't know about Vegas or San Antonio, but I'll guarantee you nothing is on KOOL untested because Dave had a "What the hell" moment.

 

[davideduardo]

Research is overrated. Not insignifcant, not worthless, but overrated! It paints Programmers and Corporate suits into a predictable, boring, corporate-sounding box!

Yeah, heaven forbid that a radio station would reach out and ask listeners what they want to hear... and what they don't want to hear.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Research is overrated. Not insignifcant, not worthless, but overrated! It paints Programmers and Corporate suits into a predictable, boring, corporate-sounding box!

Yeah, heaven forbid that a radio station would reach out and ask listeners what they want to hear... and what they don't want to hear.

I am (or more precisely, was) a heavy user of their product, but they never asked me. Of course it wouldn't matter if they did, because I would tell them I don't want to hear those 400 records they've ruined for life by burning them to a crispy crisp, I want to hear the next 400 that never get on their station, which I would enjoy very much. Once they got my results, they would dismiss it as a statistical anomaly and not pay any more attention to it (right David?) and play the same songs every one else told them they wanted to hear.

Well guess what? I am a radio lover who rarely listens to radio, particularly the local big market stations. I didn't change, radio did, and not for the better. See you on the internet stream. Losing me won't change what they do, but there are a lot of others like me who are undeserved, and eventually we will reach a critical mass. By then of course, it will be too late to get us back. And no, I am not a geezer griping about the kids and their new ways, I am well within the adult money demos and have plenty of disposable income, some of which I am sure advertisers would love to have.

 

[michael hagerty]

Update and corrections on KRTH:

As KHJ-FM, running "Hitparade", the station debuted with a 1.0 in 16th place in fall 1968, a 2.0 and 17th place in fall 1969, and a 2.3 and 15th place in fall 1970.

In fall '71, running "Solid Gold Rock and Roll", it did a 2.5 and 15th place.

Fall '72, as KRTH, it jumped to a 4.3 and 4th place. But the novelty wore off quickly. Fall '73 was 2.7 and 13th place, fall '74 was 3.1 and 11th place, fall '75 was 2.4 and 15th place and fall '76 was a 1.9 and 18th place.

Bob Hamilton arrived and took them AC in 1977. The fall '77 number was a 3.4 and 10th place...only 1/10th of a point behind KHJ. Fall '78 was 3.0 and 11th place...0.3 ahead of KHJ. Fall '79 was 3.8 and 8th place...1.4 ahead of KHJ.

I don't have 1980. 1981 was a 3.6 and 9th place, but it was the last time KRTH would be the #1 AC. In fall '82 it was a 3.2 and 12th.

I don't have 1983, but fall 1984 was a 2.6 and 12th place and fall 1985 was a 2.5 and 12th place. KRLA, meantime was doing a 2.4 with oldies.

Bob Hamilton left in early 1986. Phil Hall replaced him and flipped back to oldies. Fall '86 was a 3.5 and 9th place. KRLA's number dropped by half to a 1.2.

Under Phil Hall, KRTH broke one million cume for the first time.

I was wrong. Under Phil, KRTH never lost to KRLA or KODJ/KCBS. But the FM competition drove the numbers down. Phil left in 1991, Mike Phillips replaced him, Drake signed on as a consultant in 1992, and the numbers took off. KCBS-FM flipped to Arrow in '93.

 

[airpab]

DE....Read my post again....Why the attitude? Never said research shouldn't be used or doesn't have value!
It's limited in scope, can't possibly cover the gamut of people's tastes in a particular market or format. Ultimately, over-reliance on reasearch makes for stale, predictable, robotic, homogonized and frankly, not terribly fun radio!

Hagerty...You have a computer...Listen to those others online...Not as limited, more variety, fun to listen to.
At least you have KOOL!

 

[michael hagerty]

Hagerty...You have a computer...Listen to those others online...Not as limited, more variety, fun to listen to.
At least you have KOOL!

I'll do that.

 

[davideduardo]

DE....Read my post again....Why the attitude? Never said research shouldn't be used or doesn't have value!
It's limited in scope, can't possibly cover the gamut of people's tastes in a particular market or format. Ultimately, over-reliance on reasearch makes for stale, predictable, robotic, homogonized and frankly, not terribly fun radio!

Music research is not "limited in scope".

There are different kinds of radio research for different purposes, like format searches, on-air presentation, station image, and music. In this thread, we have been talking about music testing.

The purpose of a station music test is to find out one single thing: should a song be played on a specific station or not.

To do that, a representative sample of people who use that station or its specific format are recruited and they score hundreds and hundreds of songs and leave.

In big markets, these tests are done several times a year for one station with the local music library and potential library songs. There is no need or, indeed, purpose to test a "gamut" of anything save the range of songs that might fit on the station in question.

I can't fathom why you would think that programming to the specific likes and dislikes of a station's audience would be boring or predictable or monotonous. To a listener, hearing one song they like after another is not "predictable" but enjoyable...

 

[oldies76]

Bob Hamilton left in early 1986. Phil Hall replaced him and flipped back to oldies. Fall '86 was a 3.5 and 9th place. KRLA's number dropped by half to a 1.2.

Well, then that would explain why the #1 special went from 1955 to 1985 in 1985 and only to 1979, in 1986 and 1987. I was not aware that Phil replaced Bob in '86.

btw, why did Bob Hamilton depart KRTH?....last I heard he ran an oldies station in Florida but that was years ago.

 

[oldies76]

I can't fathom why you would think that programming to the specific likes and dislikes of a station's audience would be boring or predictable or monotonous. To a listener, hearing one song they like after another is not "predictable" but enjoyable...

When a regular listener over time figures out that "Low Rider" and "Cisco Kid" are the only songs by WAR that are ever played, then it becomes those three adjectives you mentioned above.

Add "Spill the Wine", "All Day Music", "Slippin' Into Darkness", World is a Ghetto", "Gypsy Man", "Me and Baby Brother", "Why Can't We Be Friends", "Summer" and "Galaxy" and man, you've got yourself one heck of a station!

 

[oldies76]

One thing that I just noticed, KRTH played "We Built This City" this morning at 3:04.

Isn't that one of the "worst" songs of the 1980's?? As "Disco Duck" would be to the 70's.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/p...0111006/1-starship-we-built-this-city-0260875

Granted, it played at 3am (and frankly the song is a "neutral" in my books), but I thought music testing "weeded" out the supposedly bad songs....

Interesting.

 

[davideduardo]

I am (or more precisely, was) a heavy user of their product, but they never asked me. Of course it wouldn't matter if they did, because I would tell them I don't want to hear those 400 records they've ruined for life by burning them to a crispy crisp, I want to hear the next 400 that never get on their station, which I would enjoy very much. Once they got my results, they would dismiss it as a statistical anomaly and not pay any more attention to it (right David?) and play the same songs every one else told them they wanted to hear.

In a music test of 100 people, you will occasionally get a person who is recruited because they are a listener or format partisan, but who has eclectic or unusual taste. That person's results, when combined with another 99 respondents, will vary the total results by a single percentage... so the results are not "dismissed" but simple part of the average.

 

[davideduardo]

Isn't that one of the "worst" songs of the 1980's??

Maybe it is "worst" to everyone except the listeners.

 

[michael hagerty]

Bob Hamilton left in early 1986. Phil Hall replaced him and flipped back to oldies. Fall '86 was a 3.5 and 9th place. KRLA's number dropped by half to a 1.2.

Well, then that would explain why the #1 special went from 1955 to 1985 in 1985 and only to 1979, in 1986 and 1987. I was not aware that Phil replaced Bob in '86.

btw, why did Bob Hamilton depart KRTH?....last I heard he ran an oldies station in Florida but that was years ago.

Program Directors generally get one year, two at the outside, to turn around a failing station.

Hamilton scored big out of the gate, taking KRTH from a 1.9 and 18th place with oldies in the fall of '76 to a 3.4 and 10th place in fall '77.

'78 was down a bit (3.0 and 11th place), but KRTH was the #1 AC and had better ratings than any Top 40 in the market, so it was a winner...and Hamilton took it to a new high of 3.8 and 8th place in fall '79.

After a while, a PD's only shot at survival, if he can't grow the numbers, is to at least maintain them, and Hamilton did that for a while...3.2 in fall 1981 and fall 1982...except that in '82, KRTH was no longer #1 among ACs (KOST had passed it) or Top 40s (KIQQ beat KRTH in 1981 and KIIS from '82 on).

The fall '84 number is alarming...2.6 and 12th place. But fall '85 was worse...a 2.5 and 12th.

I don't know whether Bob left on his own or was pushed, but I can tell you that most PDs would probably have been replaced four years earlier, when the station lost the AC battle to KOST. I'm sure Hamilton's excellence as a programmer convinced RKO that he was worth sticking with until the time came that they felt a big change needed to be made. And I'm sure seeing KRLA get a 2.5 with oldies on AM was a big part of that.

Given Hamilton's success programming Oldies in South Florida, could he have done it in L.A.? Sure. But either he or RKO thought it was better if he moved on. 9 years is an amazing run for a PD anywhere (more than twice as long as Ron Jacobs' tenure at KHJ). In L.A., it's close to miraculous.

 

[michael hagerty]

One thing that I just noticed, KRTH played "We Built This City" this morning at 3:04.

Isn't that one of the "worst" songs of the 1980's?? As "Disco Duck" would be to the 70's.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/p...0111006/1-starship-we-built-this-city-0260875

Granted, it played at 3am (and frankly the song is a "neutral" in my books), but I thought music testing "weeded" out the supposedly bad songs....

Interesting.

Oldies, why would you think that the opinion of readers of Rolling Stone (a magazine aimed at 18-34 year olds) scattered all over the globe (with a circulation smaller than KRTH's cume) would be a more reliable barometer of what to play on a classic hits station in Los Angeles targeting 25-54 year olds than music testing that assesses the preferences of that station's listeners?

 

[oldies76]

Oldies, why would you think that the opinion of readers of Rolling Stone (a magazine aimed at 18-34 year olds) scattered all over the globe (with a circulation smaller than KRTH's cume) would be a more reliable barometer of what to play on a classic hits station in Los Angeles targeting 25-54 year olds than music testing that assesses the preferences of that station's listeners?

That article is dated Oct. 2011, so why would 18-34's be possibly polled to rate songs from the 80's? Someone who's 34 in 2011, was 8 years old in 1985 (when "We Built This City" was #1). So the demo must have been higher to rate songs from the 80', probably 43+ or so.

Since "...City", according to R.S. (a music trade / entertainment magazine) is the #1 worst song of the 80's, by opinion according to it's readers in 2011, I find it unusual, that it would test on KRTH or any station for that matter. Listeners in LA must have tested the song for it to be played locally, but since the Rolling Stone poll is national, including L.A. possibly), I just found the two situations to be striking.

The number one disliked song from the 70's, by R.S. is "Disco Duck", but that is not heard on KRTH, or any in the top 10 on that list I believe.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/p...1970s-20111019/1-rick-dees-disco-duck-0755881

 

[michael hagerty]

Oldies, why would you think that the opinion of readers of Rolling Stone (a magazine aimed at 18-34 year olds) scattered all over the globe (with a circulation smaller than KRTH's cume) would be a more reliable barometer of what to play on a classic hits station in Los Angeles targeting 25-54 year olds than music testing that assesses the preferences of that station's listeners?

That article is dated Oct. 2011, so why would 18-34's be possibly polled to rate songs from the 80's? Someone who's 34 in 2011, was 8 years old in 1985 (when "We Built This City" was #1). So the demo must have been higher to rate songs from the 80', probably 43+ or so.

Since "...City", according to R.S. (a music trade / entertainment magazine) is the #1 worst song of the 80's, by opinion according to it's readers in 2011, I find it unusual, that it would test on KRTH or any station for that matter. Listeners in LA must have tested the song for it to be played locally, but since the Rolling Stone poll is national, including L.A. possibly), I just found the two situations to be striking.

The number one disliked song from the 70's, by R.S. is "Disco Duck", but that is not heard on KRTH, or any in the top 10 on that list I believe.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/p...1970s-20111019/1-rick-dees-disco-duck-0755881

...so help me, if I find out this is one of my friends pulling my leg...


Oldies, Rolling Stone doesn't actively poll anyone. They put up a question like "What's the worst song of the 80s" on their website and anyone who wants to anywhere on earth responds. There is no demographic control. They could all be 9. They could all be 90. The one thing they're probably not is all between 25 and 54 or 35 and 54.

In total, fewer people read Rolling Stone (and this is according to their own circulation figures) than listen to KRTH. And way fewer respond to the Reader Poll. They called the response to their "Best Led Zeppelin Songs" poll "overwhelming"...and then went on to say that it was 2,000 votes.

Again, a couple of thousand readers of a music magazine scattered around the globe of indeterminate age is no basis for anything other than cheap, reader-generated content for your magazine and website. It certainly has no relationship whatsoever to music testing in which a Los Angeles audience in the core demographic tells you what songs they want to hear on KRTH.

Please either tell me you understand that or yell "April Fool's!".

 

[michael hagerty]

PS: Rolling Stone itself cops to the lack of foundation in their Reader Poll. Here's what they felt compelled to write about the Readers' Poll winner for Best Album of 2012:

As for the top vote-getter: well, let's just say it seems clear there was some ballot manipulation that Karl Rove would find impressive.

The album? Adam Lambert's "Trespassing".

Rolling Stone felt the need to further disclaim:

By the looks of it, former American Idol winner Adam Lambert organized his fans to stuff the ballot box to make Trespassing the top vote-getter in our Readers' Poll.