KOOL Evenings

[DoubleC]

99% of listeners do not know if a show is voice tracked. As far as syndication goes on My station in Albuqerque I get phone calls during Elvis Only from people who think Jay Gordon is in Town......That is My 2 cents

 

[azenergyfan]

Exactly, the average listener does not know the difference. If you can add a show that is entertaining and holds your audience at your station, more power to you for adding the show.

I would also say that stations across the country who are adding Ryan Seacrest new show, the audience knows he is not in their town but they are listening for the latest hollywood buzz and interviews. It is about time radio start giving listeners something they can't get from their IPOD, Entertainment and personality.

 

[davideduardo]

As previous posters have already noticed.....radio and TV are completely different when it comes to local vs national programming. Local TV entertainment is universally seen as less attractive than comparable national entertainment programming.

Entertainment is entertainment wherever it comes from. Azenergyfan says it perfectly, so read his post.

Local TV entertainment is not less attractive because it is local but because it is not as good as proven national shows with America's best talent! The same is happening in radio... there is talent so good that it deserves to be in many markets, and with distribution costs as low as they are today, such talent can be shared.

Music radio is almost the complete opposite even though there are and have been exceptions such as national shows like AT-40.

Considering that Tom Rounds invented the radio barter model 38 years ago, with distribution on LPs, you can see that back then syndication was a difficult process untill technology improved. But you seem to approve of syndication if the show is likable to you.

There are plenty of good, successful radio shows that are syncdicated. In overcrowded markets in a recession, many of these shows give listeners real quality talent and programming when that would be impossible to achieve locally.

Judging from my own five children and their many friends DJ's today do not have anywhere near the same "connectivity" as the DJ's of old. This "connectivity" is what made local radio important over national shows.

Again, you have your n=5 universe. Radio was different in the 50's and 60's because there was nearly nothing else besides radio. It's lots different now, and radio needs major national talent to compete in many cases.

Thankfully, no. If I didn't say so before I am speaking about music radio not talk/hate radio (which has entirely different attributes).

Significantly more 45+ and 55+ listen to talk radio than oldies... you have to put this in perspective. All folks over 50 do not listen to oldies. There are many formats older listeners use as much as or more than oldies, so oldies stations have to compete for the attention of those listeners with the best music and talent possible.

Apparently it was not always like that because I remember, admittedly in the days before "drive time", late afternoon and evening shows were the important part of an AM Top-40 portfolio. That's when the young generation got out of school and tuned in. Admittedly, there are more distractions to the younger set these days and maybe that's why evenings are less important.

Evenings have been less important since TV achieved dominance in America. Agencies buy radio 6 AM to 7 PM and have for decades and decades for all demos. When you hear spots after 7 or 8 in the evening they are usually bonus spots or trade or network (wired or unwired) clearances.

And I agree with you that TK does seem to be a quality show, no problem with that. I am just lamenting the loss of what we used to have. It seems another departure from what once was exciting radio and something we'll never get back.

In the case of KOOL, I think what we have today is an improvement... its just better radio. Who cares if it comes from New York or Wassila?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

In the case of KOOL, I think what we have today is an improvement...

If you're comparing Kent to the most recent evening fill-in (Rivas), yes.

If you're comparing Kent to the last two evening shift incumbents
(Dave Shannon and more recently, Lee Bortell), no way.

 

[landtuna]

99% of listeners do not know if a show is voice tracked. As far as syndication goes on My station in Albuqerque I get phone calls during Elvis Only from people who think Jay Gordon is in Town......That is My 2 cents

This probably says more about your listeners than anything else. In my experience most listeners tend to be very knowledgeable about their on-air hosts.

 

[davideduardo]

This probably says more about your listeners than anything else. In my experience most listeners tend to be very knowledgeable about their on-air hosts.

Is this another of your n=5 surveys?

The fact is that most listeners do not intellectualize their radio listening. If the music or content is fun, entertaining, etc., most people accept it as is.

My "n" is about 200,000 a year.

 

[landtuna]

But you seem to approve of syndication if the show is likable to you.

There are plenty of good, successful radio shows that are syncdicated. In overcrowded markets in a recession, many of these shows give listeners real quality talent and programming when that would be impossible to achieve locally.

I am neither positive nor negative concerning syndication. It all depends on the individual show. In other markets it might make sense to bring in remote talent but IMHO it did not at KOOL.

Radio was different in the 50's and 60's because there was nearly nothing else besides radio. It's lots different now, and radio needs major national talent to compete in many cases.

I grew up with the advent of Rock 'n Roll AM radio and 50's TV and remember well the differences. While there were evening shows on TV which did attract teens of the day most of us also listened to the radio pretty much from the time we left school until bedtime (with TV timeouts for American Bandstand and Ricky Nelson).

While I can agree with your statement about national talent for smaller markets I don't think that is universally true for the larger ones. I see nothing that Tom Kent is doing that is substantially better than the previous evening DJ's at KOOL so it must all boil down to cost cutting.

Significantly more 45+ and 55+ listen to talk radio than oldies... you have to put this in perspective. All folks over 50 do not listen to oldies. There are many formats older listeners use as much as or more than oldies, so oldies stations have to compete for the attention of those listeners with the best music and talent possible.

Bear in mind I was speaking of music radio only and then only KOOL. I don't care about the other formats because I don't listen to them and would have no way to compare them with the "old days". That said, music is music and I presume any station could build a library of whatever music fit its desired demo so the real difference must be in the on-air talent. And all I am saying there is I miss the days when I could connect with the DJ because he/she was involved in local events. Listening to a remote DJ might be just as enjoyable musically but it doesn't usually build the same fan appreciation. You need only to scan this board to see others saying the same thing.

In the case of KOOL, I think what we have today is an improvement... its just better radio. Who cares if it comes from New York or Wassila?

As another poster already said, it depends on who is being improved upon. I've listened to both the before and after and don't see the improvement.

 

[KMGX]

This discussion and the folks that argue for syndication is the primary reason that radio is on the decline.

The more syndication, the more homogenized stations will become; the more homogenized that stations become, the less potential there is to grow audiences in the ways that radio stations one did. There was a time, not long ago, where stations were actually involved in the community and participated in what they were inteded to do "serving the community".

Terrestrial radio wants it both ways; they always tout how superior they are to satellite radio and yet more and more stations continue to bring in voice tracked shows, syndicated programs and cut staff--thus making their stations sound much less local and favoring their satellite competition.

Here's a point to ponder: If I can listen to Sean Hannity or Dennis Miller (for example) on my Sirius/XM satellite, why would I even bother turning on a local, terrestrial station? On the other hand, if there was compelling LOCAL talent that I couldn't get elsewhere, then maybe I could be persuaded to keep listening.

I understand why syndication exists, I understand the business completely, however I also see that it's a business that shoots itself in the foot constantly and is a ship doomed to sink a very slow, painful death over the next 20 years unless there's a revolution--a reinventing of the business as it were.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Coming up: is Jack VTed from 7-8?

It was mentioned to me that Jack "sounds" different from 7-8
than from 3-7, also in this hour there was no weather in the
(approx.) 7:15 stopset.

After listening closely to fill-in Katfish Kris tonight I would concur
that the 7-8 hour is voicetracked, having heard rather "vanilla"
intros/outros and nothing really topical or that had a "live voice"
feeling.

The only thing close to a topical remark was that the sun is setting
earlier. He could have checked the sun stats and thrown us a real
curve by VTing that it had set at 6:42* tonight, but he didn't.

And at the end of the 7:15 stopset there was a weather sponsorship
intro track ("updated weather brought to you by..." or similar copy),
but no weather jingle bed and no weather. Right into a standard
jingle and a song.


Which brings up a related item, even when the jock is live: other
than in intros to special features (All-Request Nooner, Fab 4 At 4,
Top 5 At 5), does KOOL no longer regularly give the time-of-day
outside of morning drive?

This was an SOP on 94.5 years ago during the Andrew Ashwood PD
regime that was later rescinded by subsequent PDs.

I'm sure we'll get a response from the Grouchy Old Gringo that
it's all nice and good and researched and tested in focus groups
(translation: BS) that you shouldn't give the time of day after 9am.

So why is it proper for a news/talk station to give the time during
PM drive/middays/evenings (and it is proper), but not for a classic
hits or other music formatted station to do so? Do KOOL listeners
all wear watches or have a working clock in their cars while those
who listen to KT'R-FM or 55/FYI don't? (Feel free to make your
own Mac & Cheese or J.D. Windbag joke here. ;D)


*: source: airnav.com listing for PHX

 

[davideduardo]

The more syndication, the more homogenized stations will become; the more homogenized that stations become, the less potential there is to grow audiences in the ways that radio stations one did.

I have never understood the argument that because one market has a particular show, no other market should have it. I can't be in Baltimore and Beaumont at the same time, and what is in another market has no relevance to the listeners in any other market. They are not comparing radio in Macon or Memphis with radio in whatever their home town is.

A show that is local and not entertaining has no positive value. People go to the radio for entertainment and some information. They give a rodent's patootie whether the show is local; if it is good then they listen. If it is not, it does not matter where it is from.

Terrestrial radio wants it both ways; they always tout how superior they are to satellite radio and yet more and more stations continue to bring in voice tracked shows, syndicated programs and cut staff--thus making their stations sound much less local and favoring their satellite competition.

Satellite is only a minor issue to radio. The penetration is very low, and mostly in cars where less than a third of listening is done... the threats are from WiMax and such, not satellite. In fact, one of the investment analysts just concluded that the satellite model is short-term and defective and the satcaster that remains should look on how to move itself away from satellite distribution.

I understand why syndication exists, I understand the business completely, however I also see that it's a business that shoots itself in the foot constantly and is a ship doomed to sink a very slow, painful death over the next 20 years unless there's a revolution--a reinventing of the business as it were.

Radio will survive based on content distributed beyond the old transmitter on a hill model. Those with content will survive, and the content may be local, regional or national. Keep in mind, in most of the rest of the world, most radio is not local, and most local radio is only marginally successful. If you want a good example, Metromedia had a news station that was local to Berlin. Berliners were not interested and kept listening to the national news network... and Metromedia sold after losing millions.

 

[davideduardo]

Listening to a remote DJ might be just as enjoyable musically but it doesn't usually build the same fan appreciation. You need only to scan this board to see others saying the same thing.

The last place I would poll listeners is here. 99.99% of listeners have nowhere near the interest in radio as those who read and post here. In many cases, if something gets lots of support here, I know it is wrong...

Examples:

Long playlists
No Research
Focus Groups are useless
Local is always better than "good"
Dance stations are needed in every market... it is just that nobody has done it right.
My iPod has better music than any station in town.
50's oldies will get huge ratings.
Oldies stations failed because the sellers were too young
Oldies stations failed because the buyers are all 20-something.
AM will get younger listeners if programmers are creative.
Programmers should not have to get management approval to change formats
Nobody wants to hear Brown Eyed Girl.

 

[Ford]

Radio will survive based on content distributed beyond the old transmitter on a hill model. Those with content will survive, and the content may be local, regional or national.

My gut reaction to this is to say "that sounds like something corporate would say," but I have to admit it is true.

In an era where you can get basic information like weather, traffic, and sports scores delivered to your phone, radio can't compete. The earlier comment about time checks got me thinking...do people really depend on the radio to tell them what time it is anymore?

I mean, I used to be able to tell time based on what song my station was playing (remember the hot clock?!), and I'm sure that your average listener was at least subliminally aware of the fact that the "top of hour" jingle meant something, but nowadays everyone's got a phone that tells them what time it is on demand. You no longer have to wait for the jock to tell you.

Hell, I don't even need the jock to tell me what song I'm listening to, thanks to RDS.

Content is another matter entirely, and I got an insight into how important content is by way of my Tivo. Like a lot of people, I'm hooked on the Tivo, and not only has it changed the way I watch TV, it has put the importance of content on radio into focus. I can't tell you how many times I've been listening to a compelling bit of content on the radio (there are some still out there) and wanted to hit "pause" while I went into the store.

 

[landtuna]

The last place I would poll listeners is here. 99.99% of listeners have nowhere near the interest in radio as those who read and post here. In many cases, if something gets lots of support here, I know it is wrong...

Examples:

Long playlists (are better than short ones for us "olde fartes")
No Research
Focus Groups are useless
Local is always better than "good" (disagree, explanation below)
Dance stations are needed in every market... it is just that nobody has done it right. (who cares?)
My iPod has better music than any station in town. (true)
50's oldies will get huge ratings.
Oldies stations failed because the sellers were too young
Oldies stations failed because the buyers are all 20-something.
AM will get younger listeners if programmers are creative. (AM is dead except for Mexican and hate radio)
Programmers should not have to get management approval to change formats
Nobody wants to hear Brown Eyed Girl. (I do, and Maggie May too, but only in a large rotation)

David,

I've amended some of your statements to reflect some of mine. But personally have never said any of them.

I'm looking at my personal preferences only and not from a business perspective. While I am not necessarily for or against remotely produced shows on radio I will almost always choose the local variety so long as the content is not significantly less. For instance, I am assuming there are a few AM drive shows "better" than the KOOL Morning Show but I continue to listen to KOOL because I have developed a relationship (albeit receive-only) with the characters. It might happen remotely were I to try but for now I am satisfied with the local show. Just as I support the local business owners in my area with my dollars I do the same with local talent and for the same reasons.

 

[davideduardo]

Long playlists (are better than short ones for us "olde fartes")
Local is always better than "good" (disagree, explanation below)
AM will get younger listeners if programmers are creative. (AM is dead except for Mexican and hate radio)

I've amended some of your statements to reflect some of mine. But personally have never said any of them.

I'm looking at my personal preferences only and not from a business perspective. While I am not necessarily for or against remotely produced shows on radio I will almost always choose the local variety so long as the content is not significantly less. For instance, I am assuming there are a few AM drive shows "better" than the KOOL Morning Show but I continue to listen to KOOL because I have developed a relationship (albeit receive-only) with the characters. It might happen remotely were I to try but for now I am satisfied with the local show. Just as I support the local business owners in my area with my dollars I do the same with local talent and for the same reasons.

The fact is that there are no ratings-based conclusions that can really be made as to local vs. nonlocal as a determining quality in a morning (or other daypart) show. The conclusions that can be made have to do with the entertainment value of programming. "Local" does not give a bad show and instant pass to higher ratings. And not being local is not a yellow card comparitively.

You say AM is only good for "Mexican and hate radio". First, "Mexican" stations are in Mexico. And if you mean "Spanish language stations" please name me one well rated Spanish langauge AM in a top 100 market in the Southwest. Hispanics, much younger than non-Hispanic whites as a group, don't use AM just like under-45's who are not Hispanic don't use AM.

And talk radio is not "hate radio." It's entertainment, like Leno and Oprah and the cable news and talk networks. But it does not work very well on AM, either, in the sales demographics.

Again, long playlists fail when a station with a shorter list is an option. I have never seen a station win by playing more songs than a direct competitor. The average listener wants to hear many of their favorite songs each time they turn on the radio.

 

[The Beave]

David...

Have you ever thought about becoming a democratic progressive pundant?

You are starting to sound like one of those democratic hate machines some stations air here in Fargo.

Just had to ask... :-\

 

[landtuna]

You say AM is only good for "Mexican and hate radio". First, "Mexican" stations are in Mexico. And if you mean "Spanish language stations" please name me one well rated Spanish langauge AM in a top 100 market in the Southwest. Hispanics, much younger than non-Hispanic whites as a group, don't use AM just like under-45's who are not Hispanic don't use AM.

I obviously meant "Spanish language" but since I am located only 100+ miles from the Mexican border we get both "Spanish language USA" stations as well as Mexican stations. I don't differentiate between the two.

And talk radio is not "hate radio." It's entertainment, like Leno and Oprah and the cable news and talk networks. But it does not work very well on AM, either, in the sales demographics.

I have never heard hate and rage on Leno, Oprah, De Generes et al. as I have from Limbaugh, O'Reilly and their associates. To label hate radio (and I mean hate, not talk) as entertainment would be akin to calling WWE professional sport. Talk radio to me means a host who educates/entertains with thoughtful conversation on relevant topics. The two are not the same.

Again, long playlists fail when a station with a shorter list is an option. I have never seen a station win by playing more songs than a direct competitor. The average listener wants to hear many of their favorite songs each time they turn on the radio.

I would have agreed if you had said "favorite genre". If I want to hear only my favorite individual songs I break out my MP3 player because that's the only place I'm ever going to hear them consistently.

 

[davideduardo]

You say AM is only good for "Mexican and hate radio". First, "Mexican" stations are in Mexico. And if you mean "Spanish language stations" please name me one well rated Spanish language AM in a top 100 market in the Southwest. Hispanics, much younger than non-Hispanic whites as a group, don't use AM just like under-45's who are not Hispanic don't use AM.

I obviously meant "Spanish language" but since I am located only 100+ miles from the Mexican border we get both "Spanish language USA" stations as well as Mexican stations. I don't differentiate between the two.

But you also did not answer the question... name me a single well rated AM that is in Spanish in the Southwest. You can't and that leads me to say, "don't say things that are fact based when there are not facts to base your statement on."

The fact is that a bunch of Spanish language AMs have failed or floundered just in the Phoenix in the last decade or so... 1400, 1480, 1190 and so on.

AM is not for Hispanic audiences, as Hispanics like AM even less than non-Hispanics in the US.

And, as to "hate" it's all from one's perspective. I find Opra et. al. very one-sided and exclusionist (if that word exists in English). In general, all talk radio and TV tends to be "my way or the highway" so that's not a criticism, just a fact. We like hosts... or people in general... we have things in common with. And we think the folks we do not have things in common with are wrong! It's human nature. And those differences make for entertaining radio.

 

[The Beave]

Ya know...

Obama don't deserve to be called the "Missiah" But the way David carries on

He could easily call himself that.

 

[landtuna]

But you also did not answer the question... name me a single well rated AM that is in Spanish in the Southwest. You can't and that leads me to say, "don't say things that are fact based when there are not facts to base your statement on."

My apologies. I did not take your statement to be a realistic question for someone who is a listener and not actually in the business of radio.

Over the past few months I have spent significant time DXing the AM band. What used to be loaded with both local and far-away stations has evidently collapsed into 3-4 local English-language and tens of Spanish-language stations located who-knows-where. From my home in the SE Valley I can receive exactly two AM EL stations with a quality signal after the sun goes down. The remainder are either SL and/or smothered in static or bleed-over from other stations. I can actually receive Australian AM stations clearer.

Based on the above I stand by my statement that AM has, in effect, already died in my market and lives on life support in the two categories I mentioned. As I am not in the business I have no knowledge of their listener or revenue numbers and didn't make any statement to that effect. Nor, like most other people, do I care.

AM is not for Hispanic audiences, as Hispanics like AM even less than non-Hispanics in the US.

I don't believe I said "AM is for Hispanic audiences". What I thought I said was that Spanish language stations seem to proliferate on AM.

And, as to "hate" it's all from one's perspective. I find Opra et. al. very one-sided and exclusionist (if that word exists in English). In general, all talk radio and TV tends to be "my way or the highway" so that's not a criticism, just a fact. We like hosts... or people in general... we have things in common with. And we think the folks we do not have things in common with are wrong! It's human nature. And those differences make for entertaining radio.

C'mon David.....methinks you know what I'm talking about here. I have never heard Oprah (as one example) say hateful outright lies about another human being on her show (or even otherwise). There are lively discussions to be sure but merely disagreeing with the guest does not fall into my definition of hate radio. A radio host demeaning or lying about another person because their beliefs do not agree is. We recently had an excellent example of hate radio here in Phoenix when the widow of a cop killed in the line of duty by an illegal was criticized very harshly for her views on illegal immigration. The host could have stated his personal differences without the personal attack but chose to take the low road. National hate radio hosts tend to make a living doing this by pandering to the brass knuckles crowd. Incidents like this are not 'entertainment' IMHO and people who repeat this ugly discourse should be tossed off the public airwaves.

 

[davideduardo]

Over the past few months I have spent significant time DXing the AM band. What used to be loaded with both local and far-away stations has evidently collapsed into 3-4 local English-language and tens of Spanish-language stations located who-knows-where. From my home in the SE Valley I can receive exactly two AM EL stations with a quality signal after the sun goes down. The remainder are either SL and/or smothered in static or bleed-over from other stations. .

First, you should be comparing daytime proportions; night radio listening is less than a third of that of daytime dayparts, and AM listening at night is even less.

You hear lots of Spanish stations at night because you are really nearer far more big cities in Mexico than big ones in the US. And Mexico licences far fewer directional signals, so many get to the US border areas quite nicely.

Other than the marginal 550 and 620 night signals, Phoenix, which we know to have been aq very small city when the good allocations were handed out, has very poor AM facilities. That's another reason why news talk moved to FM... and why it is winning there.

Based on the above I stand by my statement that AM has, in effect, already died in my market and lives on life support in the two categories I mentioned. As I am not in the business I have no knowledge of their listener or revenue numbers and didn't make any statement to that effect. Nor, like most other people, do I care.

Other than the two mentioned channels, there are no other good fulltime AMs in the market. Those two will continue to do well for quite a while. The others will be mostly religion, brokered or whatever-

Of 22 AMs in the market (this will increase as Pinal is added to the market) 5 are in Spanish. Two of the Spanish stations are truly commercial, KSUN and rimshot KMIA. The rest are brokered or religious. Considering that the market is nearly 30% Hispanic, there are actually less stations proportionally. And not one of them has ratings at all.

[/quote]AM is not for Hispanic audiences, as Hispanics like AM even less than non-Hispanics in the US.

I don't believe I said "AM is for Hispanic audiences". What I thought I said was that Spanish language stations seem to proliferate on AM.[/quote]

I am the one who is saying "AM is not for Hispanic audiences" as shown by the fact that not one of the ones in PHX got even a 0.1 share of listening this Spring. It appears that some owners think that Hispanics will accept the bad quality and horrible signals on AM...

As to the "hate issue" I still say that it all comes down to ones point of view and political inclination.