KOST Goes All Christmas Friday

[TheBigA]

It is entirely possible that labels encourage artists to record secular songs because overly religious songs are relegated to very limited airplay and thus exposure.

Keep in mind record labels get no royalty from radio airplay. Also keep in mind there's an entire radio format built around religious music. So if the goal it to get airplay, they could aim that way. I'm sure there's no aversion to playing religious Christmas music on K-Love and Air 1.

I do take issue with the idea that radio doesn't play these religious songs because no one wants to hear them before 12/24, but they want to hear "Winter Wonderland" for eight weeks straight.

The real problem with the religious songs is they tend to be ballads and use non-colloquial language. I've had conversations with artists on this subject. They've tried to update the language in these songs and make them more conversational, but that's controversial with the religious purists. But we've covered the subject of tempo in radio programming at other times of the year, and those rules don't go away in December. The fact is that the secular songs are all cheerful and uptempo, and that makes them better for radio.

 

[davideduardo]

Now, I can hear the howls of righteous indignation from our pros who will swear that radio only gives listeners what they want (and omits what they don't want) and we programmers are completely neutral about it. Sorry guys, that may be true some of the time, maybe even most of the time, but not all of the time. To say that editorial decisions are not made about what us mere listeners can and should be subject to are made all of the time. I will have more to say about this topic of radio programming/editorializing later in a more topic-focused post, perhaps in a new thread to give it the space it deserves.

In my 6 decades in radio, I have not seen any evidence that personal religious considerations affected programming... and I have worked with hundreds of programmers in dozens of markets. Yes, there may be some issues as to issues involving vulgarity and sexually oriented lyrics based on one's own values, but that is always in the context of what listeners want or find acceptable. But not playing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" or "Little Town of Bethlehem" for personal religious reasons is something I've never seen.

That's not to say that a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints programming a station in SLC won't apply a religious criteria to some programming decisions, but that is not for personal reasons but because the market is predominantly of the same faith and the programmer is applying first person knowledge to make sure they do the right thing for the listeners.

Of course people have some subconscious biases, but programmers don't make the kind of conscious decisions and arbitrary exclusions that you speak of.

 

[johndavis]

In my 6 decades in radio, I have not seen any evidence that personal religious considerations affected programming... and I have worked with hundreds of programmers in dozens of markets. Yes, there may be some issues as to issues involving vulgarity and sexually oriented lyrics based on one's own values, but that is always in the context of what listeners want or find acceptable. But not playing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" or "Little Town of Bethlehem" for personal religious reasons is something I've never seen.

When I was summoned to the owner's office and told that you're going to flip the station to all Christmas in 1993, I was then told to talk to another executive about how to handle the music. That person told me how I needed to separate out the religious from the secular and hold off on the religious until 2 weeks out because people weren't ready for that. (The exception: Boney M. Mary's Boy Child was considered a local hit and needed to be played often.)

Then I sat down and looked at the database. If I excluded every religious title, I would have fewer than 30 titles that I could play. So I left them in. The religious titles are slower, so the tempo codes kept them from coming up as often, but I needed them in the mix.

Would that still be true today? Since Jerry Ryan turned Christmas into an AC radio phenomenon, there are more and better titles to play with than when I was doing this back in the day, plus people have done actual music tests for it. I don't think I'd consciously omit religious titles, but the tempo rules would keep them from coming up as often.

 

[michael hagerty]

When I was summoned to the owner's office and told that you're going to flip the station to all Christmas in 1993, I was then told to talk to another executive about how to handle the music. That person told me how I needed to separate out the religious from the secular and hold off on the religious until 2 weeks out because people weren't ready for that. (The exception: Boney M. Mary's Boy Child was considered a local hit and needed to be played often.)

Then I sat down and looked at the database. If I excluded every religious title, I would have fewer than 30 titles that I could play. So I left them in. The religious titles are slower, so the tempo codes kept them from coming up as often, but I needed them in the mix.

Would that still be true today? Since Jerry Ryan turned Christmas into an AC radio phenomenon, there are more and better titles to play with than when I was doing this back in the day, plus people have done actual music tests for it. I don't think I'd consciously omit religious titles, but the tempo rules would keep them from coming up as often.

So THAT's why "I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas" went to power rotation on KEZ!

 

[DrAkbar]

Then I sat down and looked at the database. If I excluded every religious title, I would have fewer than 30 titles that I could play.

It's a Hot Hits format, so repetition of favs is no problema. "It's The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year", Holly Jolly Xmas, "You're All I Want for Xmas This Year", So This is Xmas, "Simply Having A Wonderful Xmas", etc are in hot rotation and you're bound to hear them repeated within 90 or 120 minutes.

So THAT's why "I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas" went to power rotation on KEZ!

Los Buckeye Boyz think you're confusing KEZ with KTWC when they tried All Ho-Ho-Ho music.

 

[TheBigA]

Then I sat down and looked at the database. If I excluded every religious title, I would have fewer than 30 titles that I could play.

Once again, this is more a music discussion than a radio conversation. Look at every holiday album, and you'll see basically those same 30 titles. But done by lots of different artists. Sure there are definitive versions, but they're all more than 50 years old. So if you want to do a contemporary Christmas format, there are hundreds of songs to play.

 

[michael hagerty]

Los Buckeye Boyz think you're confusing KEZ with KTWC when they tried All Ho-Ho-Ho music.

Doc: Nope. Beth and Bill pounded that sucker.

 

[johndavis]

It's a Hot Hits format, so repetition of favs is no problema. "It's The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year", Holly Jolly Xmas, "You're All I Want for Xmas This Year", So This is Xmas, "Simply Having A Wonderful Xmas", etc are in hot rotation and you're bound to hear them repeated within 90 or 120 minutes.

Right. If I were at KEZ (or even KTWC), I could power Mariah and Andy Williams and let 'er rip.

This was KOY, so I was pushing the envelope by adding the Eurythmics and getting nasty calls at the front desk by adding Run Run Rudolph. The audience wanted the old B/EZ Christmas reels that KMEO used to play and Jorgy wanted tempo and variety. (Remember, we were the radio group that thought that obscure soul records mixed with classic rock was a viable format and not a stunt, so the direction I was getting was all over the place.)

My favorite complaint calls were the ones telling me to stop playing that (n-word) music on their radio station when I played Gladys Knight or the Jackson 5. Merry Christmas!

So I quit that job saying I would never have to do all Christmas ever again, then a few months later get hired at KEZ and am handed a reel of Christmas jingles to dub for their first year doing all Christmas. I needed to atone for my sins for being an a-hole APD, and nothing makes you come to Jesus faster than the only gig you can land is playing Christmas music manually from midnight to 9 because there wasn't room in the hard drive system to automate it.

 

[davideduardo]

Would that still be true today? Since Jerry Ryan turned Christmas into an AC radio phenomenon, there are more and better titles to play with than when I was doing this back in the day, plus people have done actual music tests for it. I don't think I'd consciously omit religious titles, but the tempo rules would keep them from coming up as often.

Having worked with Jerry for a decade or so, I'm quite confident that his feeling about the religious titles was strategic and not secular.

I think your concern for tempo is valid; the religious songs will self-limit their exposure. I agree that the farther away from December 25 you get, there is going to be some concern about being to heavy on religious themes due to the mood of the market.

I wonder if the timing on the commencement of play of some of the songs might be different according to the market? As in "let it snow, let it snow, let it snow" and the like when it's 90° outside in PHX? Of course, "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" was supposedly written outside of Palm Springs, CA, at the La Quinta Resort way back when... and is rather appropriate for those of us who only see snow on top of 10,000 foot mountains up above us!

 

[johndavis]

Having worked with Jerry for a decade or so, I'm quite confident that his feeling about the religious titles was strategic and not secular.

For the record, this was before I worked for Jerry. Jerry told Mike Del Rosso play the hits. Jerry always ran a good shop. I would run through a brick wall for that man.

The person who told me to lay off of the religious titles was the former owner of the station I was at who worked out a deal where he stayed on for a year as an advisor after selling.

I was kind of caught in the middle where the new owner says do things my way but ask this guy (former owner) for advice. Oh, and my way will change roughly every 48 hours and you shouldn't listen to everything that (former owner) told you.

Anytime I hear people complain about corporate radio, I think back on my time working for that guy and think corporate isn't half-bad.

 

[davideduardo]

Anytime I hear people complain about corporate radio, I think back on my time working for that guy and think corporate isn't half-bad.

My first job was with a smaller group owner, Richard Eaton, who ran things autocratically himself from corporate "offices". We had to even get toilet paper from corporate, and I won points from the staff by bringing coffee and rolls of paper when I showed up!

On the other hand, when I joined a totally family owned and operated station 25 years later, I was already the owner's friend and found that I was given the ability to develop the station (later, "stations"). In a sense, I became a "cousin" and was treated as a family member.

I think it all depends on the company or the small owner. They come in all sizes, shapes and styles.

 

[michael hagerty]

David hits the nail on the head.

My first small single-station owner (and my first station, period) was horrendous.

My second station was also a small single-station owner---but one who'd worked for McLendon, and that place ran like clockwork.

My third station was a small single-station owner and I left when he sold one of the two turntables to pay the power bill.

My fourth was a small group owned by another McLendon vet. Again, a solid operation let down only by a couple of dubious GM hires.

Since then, I've worked for Journal, Belo, Hearst-Argyle, Emmis, Nationwide, Scripps and iHeart. All had their strong points and their weak points, but the horrorshow stuff (bouncing checks, irrational bosses, health, safety and FCC violations) that are hallmarks of bad small owners have never been an issue at any of them.

 

[davideduardo]

Anytime I hear people complain about corporate radio, I think back on my time working for that guy and think corporate isn't half-bad.

Yep. I worked with him in Phoenix at KHOT et. al. and then in Chicago with WOJO and the others in the cluster. Great manager. Great person.

 

[DrAkbar]

Of course, "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" was supposedly written outside of Palm Springs, CA, at the La Quinta Resort way back when... and is rather appropriate for those of us who only see snow on top of 10,000 foot mountains up above us!

Once in a blue moon you'll hear the full version of White Christmas which begins with these SoCal lyrics:

The sun is shining, the grass is green
The orange and palm trees sway
There's never been such a day
In Beverly Hills, LA
But it's December the 24th
And I'm longing to be up north

Here tiz... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodySWoXVAs

 

[TheBigA]

The verse of White Christmas reminds me of a small off topic detail. The song was written by Irving Berlin, a lifelong New Yorker, who was in Hollywood at this point in his life writing songs for movies. Although he was Jewish, his wife was Catholic, and he wrote this song mainly about her, and where she longed to be.

 

[davideduardo]

The verse of White Christmas reminds me of a small off topic detail. The song was written by Irving Berlin, a lifelong New Yorker, who was in Hollywood at this point in his life writing songs for movies. Although he was Jewish, his wife was Catholic, and he wrote this song mainly about her, and where she longed to be.

From Wikipedia:

"Accounts vary as to when and where Berlin wrote the song. One story is that he wrote it in 1940, in warm La Quinta, California, while staying at the La Quinta Hotel, a frequent Hollywood retreat also favored by writer-director-producer Frank Capra, although the Arizona Biltmore also claims the song was written there. He often stayed up all night writing—he told his secretary, "Grab your pen and take down this song. I just wrote the best song I've ever written—heck, I just wrote the best song that anybody's ever written!"

"La Quinta" in 1940 was the name for a desert resort in the middle of nowhere. The city with that name was yet to be founded, and the hotel had no air conditioning so summer business was, shall we say, slow. Today, it's just one of dozens of similar resorts with one of the over 120 golf courses in the area. And it still does not snow in the valley.

 

[TheBigA]

"La Quinta" in 1940 was the name for a desert resort in the middle of nowhere.

That could be, but what I meant was he was mainly living and working in LA while working on movie soundtracks. One became Holiday Inn, where this song debuted.

 

[radiocph]

Just like every year, you can expect lots of songs about sleigh bells, winter wonderlands and Santas, but you will be waiting a long time to hear "Silent Night". I am not a very religious person myself, but I still find it so disgraceful that every year their goal seems to be to find more ways to take the Christ out of Christmas. They succeed tremendously.

Last year, I captured 24 hours of KKGO's Christmas playlist. It consisted of 24% winter songs, 64% secular Christmas songs, and 12% religious Christmas songs.
Also, see this thread about winter vs. Christmas music https://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?705792-Christmas-music-vs-winter-music

 

[SuperRadioFan]

The advertisers can't wait, nor can the target demographic -- female 25-54.

The numbers don't lie. When stations flip to Christmas, people who don't listen to those stations much the rest of the year make them their only choice through late December. So far, radio has not found a date that's "too early," that is, one that will drive off more listeners than it will gain. It's hard for most on this board to fathom because many of us are 55+ males and avid fans of particular stations or particular musical genres -- precisely to kind of people the all-Christmas format is not trying to reach, nor does it want to reach.

yep people are morons

 

[Wimmmex]

So far, radio has not found a date that's "too early," that is, one that will drive off more listeners than it will gain.

Yes it has! Believe me this has been researched to death!

yep people are morons

Why? Because they listened to what they want to listen to...and not what you want them to listen to? <puzzled>