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KOVR/13 To -NOT- Go Regular Prime?

O

OldAkronite

Here's an interesting thought.

Pretty much everyone in the Sacramento/Stockton/Modesto TV market - and beyond - has assumed that new Viacom/CBS O&O KOVR/13 can't wait to get rid of the 7-10 PM "early prime" schedule. Many, including myself, have believed it would happen as soon as the coming fall season. (For the record, Viacom itself brought early prime into Northern California, as an experiment on KPIX/5, but dropped it a year or so later.)

Is it a given that KOVR/13 moves to an 8-11 PM prime-time schedule?

One big obstacle in the way of that - the popularity of the station's 10 PM newscast, which has to be a big moneymaker for them.

And now, I'm hearing pretty informed rumblings that they may keep the early prime schedule, and the 10 O'Clock News.

Viacom owns the network, and the station now, to be sure. It's generally accepted that a network wants its shows to run in the standard timeslot for the market. But...does KOVR shut off what's basically a money machine (the 10 PM news) and move it to 11, in competition with market leader KCRA/3 and #2 KXTV/10?

How much money do they lose by turning a moneymaking franchise into the 11 PM also-ran? KOVR's 10 PM show basically competes with the network programming on 3 and 10, and hasn't gotten much competition from KQCA/58's 10 PM show or the long-running KXTL/40 cast at 10...

Just a thought. I'm hearing "early prime" could very well stick around at 13.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
> Just a thought. I'm hearing "early prime" could very well
> stick around at 13.

And Mark will call them every day to complain about it, too.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> > Just a thought. I'm hearing "early prime" could very well
>
> > stick around at 13.
>
> And Mark will call them every day to complain about it, too.
>
From what I hear, people like their Survivor at 7. They're able to call Bay Area people who don't know about the time shift and place bets as to who gets kicked off. It also was nice that one could go from Survivor to Must See Tv which isn't much to see anymore. Good for 13. And if KCRA 3/58 continue their abysmal newscast then 13 won't have to worry. Either Sacramentans have settled for mediocrity or those filling out rating books can only write " " ".
 
> > > Just a thought. I'm hearing "early prime" could very
> well
> >
> > > stick around at 13.
> >
> > And Mark will call them every day to complain about it,
> too.

I was thinking the same thing, KM.

> From what I hear, people like their Survivor at 7. They're
> able to call Bay Area people who don't know about the time
> shift and place bets as to who gets kicked off. It also was
> nice that one could go from Survivor to Must See Tv which
> isn't much to see anymore. Good for 13. And if KCRA 3/58
> continue their abysmal newscast then 13 won't have to worry.
> Either Sacramentans have settled for mediocrity or those
> filling out rating books can only write " " ".
>
I know this would a bit far-fetched, but if Viacom wants a 11PM newscast in our State's Capital, why not do a 11 O'Clock show on KMAX, and still keep a 10PM show on KOVR. Just a thought...
 
> And Mark will call them every day to complain about it, too.

Actually I made about 5 calls to KOVR since December.

Not a bad idea. Still noone has stated whether or not they will move the prime time lineup back to 8 PM. There have been no known insiders that have posted here and indicated KOVR's plans on any of the issues mentioned.

That was my main intention of posting about the KOVR issues. The intention was that an insider from the company or even station may post and give us answers. This has happened on other broadcast boards.

ANyhow we have to wait and see. My call wont do any good in and of itself. It would take about 10,000 calls to influence a station's decision. The only call I might make is to ask what will happen with stuff. That would be about all.

And its probable that quite a few people like the 7 PM prime time as it is. Now about clearing the full CBS schedule??? WHy would an O & O not clear it? I could see an affiliate not clearing everything however.

As I stated before I recall from 1986 to about 1995 that 2 ABC O & O stations that were previously Capital Cities stations (prior to the merger) that continued to not run the 11 AM hour of shows ABC had put out. But during this time ABC went through about 15 shows for that slot until settling on Home/Mike and Maty. In fact 6 WPVI in Philadelphia only ran 30 minutes of Home/Mike & maty until 1995.

So that is a preemption I know of on O & O stations. One other one was 10 WCAU Philadelphia preempted Sunday morning cartoons from CBS (an hour totally) from 1978-79. So once in a blue moon O & O stations equal less than 100 % clearence.
Guiding Light though is not widely preempted so that is surprising me.

Only Meredith's WNEM 5 Flint preempts that show. Maybe Michael Moore can camp out in front of WNEM's studios to wait for WNEM's General Manager and Meredith's president and make the movie "Guiding Light & Me"...and go to Sacramento and do the same while he is at it....JUST KIDDING.
 
> Only Meredith's WNEM 5 Flint preempts that show. Maybe
> Michael Moore can camp out in front of WNEM's studios to
> wait for WNEM's General Manager and Meredith's president and
> make the movie "Guiding Light & Me"...and go to Sacramento
> and do the same while he is at it....JUST KIDDING.

ROFL!

Or maybe "Guiding Light 9/11"? Or "Bowling for Soaps"?
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> One big obstacle in the way of that - the popularity of the
> station's 10 PM newscast, which has to be a big moneymaker
> for them.

They could easy move their 10 O'clock news to KMAX UPN 31 since they are sister station right now and move their prime time from 7-10PM to 8-11PM. DId KPIX took 4 years after Westinghouse and CBS merge to move their prime time back to 8-11 slot?


Also what will happen to GD Sacramento. Are they going to cancel the 5-7AM slot for KOVR?
>
 
> They could easy move their 10 O'clock news to KMAX UPN 31
> since they are sister station right now and move their prime
> time from 7-10PM to 8-11PM. DId KPIX took 4 years after
> Westinghouse and CBS merge to move their prime time back to
> 8-11 slot?

KPIX did have early prime as a Viacom/CBS O&O, but I can't remember for how long. It was Viacom which made the decision to go back to regular prime.

The problem with your scenario above: The newscast won't be nearly as successful on UPN 31 at 10. You've got the UPN lead-in 8-10 PM vs. the CBS lead-in from 7-10. The "10 O'Clock News" would languish on 31, and probably be on the same plane as KQCA. On 13, it makes a lot of money.

It's a tough decision for Viacom. The prime time being off hurts their national schedule, but moving to 8-11 PM hurts their 10 PM money machine on 13. It sounds like Viacom's willing to swallow the slight damage an early prime does in Sacramento, to keep the money from the 10 PM show.

Good Day Sacramento? Good question. It's not going anywhere. CBS won't blow out the "Early Show" on its O&O, and "GDS" is clearly driving the ratings and revenue bus on UPN 31. My guess - they also keep the 5-7 AM news on 13, but recast it as a harder alternative to the more entertainment-oriented "GDS" on 31 (or for that matter, the competing "Armstrong & Getty Show" on KQCA/58).

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
> KPIX did have early prime as a Viacom/CBS O&O, but I can't
> remember for how long. It was Viacom which made the
> decision to go back to regular prime.

When did they? I vaguely remember maybe in the late 90's back when it may have still been CBS/Group W...Still very unsure of when this had happened...

> Good Day Sacramento? Good question. It's not going
> anywhere. CBS won't blow out the "Early Show" on its O&O,
> and "GDS" is clearly driving the ratings and revenue bus on
> UPN 31.

WHy not blow Early show as an O & O. Actually a few CBS affiliates preempt The Early Show altogether. At one point it was moderately preempted nationally. Also in the late 90's even many O & O stations preempted half this Early Show only running one hour. KOVR could well drop The Early Show. As mentioned with Guiding Light...which only has one other station not running it...being an O & O does not always stop preemptions.

Also one of The Top rated CBS affiliates in the country 4 WWL TV New Orleans owned by Belo (which coincidentally started the percedent of not running Guiding Light when it owned KXTV back in 1992 which incidentally is an ABC affiliate owned by Gannett today) does not run Early Show/This Morning or whatever its been called since the 1980's (even longer than Guiding light has been preempted in Sacramento)(actually Loyolla University owned WWL TV back in the late 80's when they dropped CBS Morning news shows...sold to Belo shortly after).

In fact In New Orleans a religious based independent woned by World Harvest 20 WHNO ran CBS Early Show from about 1995 or 1996 to the Fall of 2002. In the Fall of 2002 WHNO dropped it. By then UPN 54 WUPL was owned by CBS. CBS was not all that anxious to add Early Show so they did not put it on UPN 54. Finally last spring after 2 and a half years off in New Orleans they finally added The Early Show to WUPL. So in that scenerio O & O stations did not equal clearence of all CBS shows.

CBS offered to buy WWL TV last year as well. Belo opted not to sell it. CBS then sold WUPL to Belo. Had CBS bought WWL TV chances are high The Early Show WOULD NOT have been put on WWL TV. Their morning news is just way too successful. They proabably would have done what they did anyway...put Early show on WUPL when they did a few months ago.

> My guess - they also keep the 5-7 AM news on 13,
> but recast it as a harder alternative to the more
> entertainment-oriented "GDS" on 31 (or for that matter, the
> competing "Armstrong & Getty Show" on KQCA/58).

OF COURSE KOVR WILL RUN LOCAL NEWS 5-7 AM..That is a given no matter what.

> -OA
>
 
> Or maybe "Guiding Light 9/11"? Or "Bowling for Soaps"?

You're right..."Guiding Light & Me" would be good for the Flint Market...I loved that Roger & Me movie by the way...one of my favorites.

But "Bowling For Soaps" or "Guiding light 911" are indeed more suitable titles for Sacramento.
 
> When did they? I vaguely remember maybe in the late 90's
> back when it may have still been CBS/Group W...Still very
> unsure of when this had happened...

I have been doing some Google searching, and it appears Early Prime started up in late 1991.

I have another source that says it ended in September, 1998, but I'm not entirely sure of that. I know it was still running in 1995, when KOVR/13 went to Early Prime as a new CBS affiliate in the swap.

> OF COURSE KOVR WILL RUN LOCAL NEWS 5-7 AM..That is a given
> no matter what.

Well, of course, I was just talking about the prospect of running its current news vs. speculation that they'd move "Good Day" over from 31.

I still say "GDS" won't move.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
> I know this would a bit far-fetched, but if Viacom wants a
> 11PM newscast in our State's Capital, why not do a 11
> O'Clock show on KMAX, and still keep a 10PM show on KOVR.
> Just a thought...
>
Not really far fetched but KOVR could just keep the 10pm show and add an 11pm newscast as well. Several stations do this like the Fox affiliate in Miami and the Fox affiliate in Dallas (an hour at 9 and half hour at 10 since they are central time.) I just wonder why all the nets just do not go 7-10 on the west coast.
 
From the network perspective, having a 7-10 prime time keeps KOVR's audience from being incorporated into the national numbers they can use to sell the network's avails, as I understand it.

Being the 19th market, that's not exactly chump change in the network's pocket. (Anyone with some factual data here?)

I suspect the issue would be whether KOVR's late news makes more profit than the loss of the network's prime time schedule in Sacramento.

As for the news broadcasts, one can't exactly say what the new owners may do to improve ratings.

Adding more money for staff and equipment is one thing. Adding a bigger promotion budget is another. Get that "top of mind awareness" up to promote sampling of an improved product.

I don't think more promotion will happen until there's something new to promote and that isn't likely to happen until after KMAX has been co-located and the bugs have been worked out about how to do news on two stations from the same building.

I do know it will be much easier than it is today when, say, a KMAX truck or crew is sent to do something for KOVR.

As for an 11 p.m. news on KMAX... I don't think you'll see that.

A couple of things that may have an effect... viewer habits (which are hard to change) and the lead in.

Newscast ratings are often affected by the "lead in"... the show that's on before.

Look at the market ratings for what's on the Sacramento-Stockton stations at 9:30 (for 10 p.m. newscasts) and 10:30 p.m. (for 11 p.m.) and then look at market ratings for any news that follows.

As for networks moving prime time up on the West Coast: want to see a BIG uproar from affiliates? Stations make a lot of money in prime time access (7-8) airing ratings winners like Wheel of Fortune and the other fare you see during that hour.

Viacom (owners of King World, which distributes Wheel and Jeopardy among other shows) would be kinda shooting itself in the foot, wouldn't it?

And the issue isn't whether Viacom wants an 11 pm news in Sacramento... it's more "Do the market's viewers want to watch an 11 p.m. news on a Viacom station, here?"

Ted.


> > I know this would a bit far-fetched, but if Viacom wants a
>
> > 11PM newscast in our State's Capital, why not do a 11
> > O'Clock show on KMAX, and still keep a 10PM show on KOVR.
>
> > Just a thought...
> >
> Not really far fetched but KOVR could just keep the 10pm
> show and add an 11pm newscast as well. Several stations do
> this like the Fox affiliate in Miami and the Fox affiliate
> in Dallas (an hour at 9 and half hour at 10 since they are
> central time.) I just wonder why all the nets just do not go
> 7-10 on the west coast.
>
 
> > I guess early prime time has worked for 13 in Sacramento, or it wouIdn't have lasted all these years, but I can't help but remember what a disaster it was for KRON and KPIX in San Francisco. Westinghouse owned KPIX at the time (92 or 93), and thought they could make a dent in KTVU's 10 O'Clock News ratings. Unfortunately for KPIX, KRON followed suit almost immediately. So Channel 7 was alone with news at 11:00 and got a big ratings boose. They also picked up Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy from KRON which had to clear the 7:00 hour for NBC programming. ABC must have laughed all the way to the bank. Neither KRON nor KPIX made a dent in KTVU's ratings.

>
> > 11PM newscast in our State's Capital, why not do a 11
> > O'Clock show on KMAX, and still keep a 10PM show on KOVR.
>
> > Just a thought...
> >
> Not really far fetched but KOVR could just keep the 10pm
> show and add an 11pm newscast as well. Several stations do
> this like the Fox affiliate in Miami and the Fox affiliate
> in Dallas (an hour at 9 and half hour at 10 since they are
> central time.) I just wonder why all the nets just do not go
> 7-10 on the west coast.
>
 
> > >
>
> >
> > > I just wonder why all the nets just do not
> go
> > 7-10 on the west coast.
> >
>
Why DO Pacific stations follow Central Time in the
daytime and Eastern Time (with exceptions like
Monday Night Football)at night? I know it goes back before
LA stations started running 4 PM newscasts. I live in
the Southeast but am told that most communities on the
left coast are early-to-bed (my dad worked with a guy who
had to be in his office in LA at 6 AM in order to talk to
their company's headquarters in South Carolina, where it
was 9 AM). So you raise a good question: why not 7-10 PM
prime time out there?
 
> Why DO Pacific stations follow Central Time in the
> daytime and Eastern Time (with exceptions like
> Monday Night Football)at night?

Actually the Pacific Times on network programming varies. The Morning News shows like Good Morning America and Today air at 7 AM everywhere pretty much. but daytime west coast schedules are earlier The Price Is Right and The View are both at 10 AM. Young & The Restless is at 11:30 AM, Bold & Beautiful 12:30, As The WOrld Turns 1 PM , and Guiding Light (except in Sacramento) 2 PM. I know of no west coast CBS stations running Guiding Light in mornings. That seems to be an east coast thing. On ABC All My Children airs at Noon, One lIfe To Live at 1 PM, and General Hospital at 2 PM. Syndicated shows begin on the west coast at 3 PM. NBC's daytime lineup of 2 shows I believe airs various times dependning on the affiliate...not sure where offical times for DAys and Passions are.

Network News I believe is at 5:30 PM rather than 6:30 PM with Local News back at 6 PM. But then Prime Time begins at 8 PM still and goes till 11 PM. Late Night shows also begin at 11:30.

Saturday morning cartoons when they had an 8 AM to 1 PM slot ran from 7 AM to Noon on the west coast. If Sports began early like at 9 AM though they would be live and cartoons would be bumped to a 3 or 4 PM slot depending how early sports ended. If a 1 PM east coast sporting event began at 10 AM and sports shows ended at 6 PM on the east coast..it ended at 3 PM on west coast and therefore cartoons would be put in an afternoon slot.

Today though affiliates run the saturday cartoons blocks where convienent. Some CBS affiliates run 2 hours sometime Saturday morning and an hour Sunday mornings. Some ABC stations now do that as well. Cartoon lineups on CBS seem to not be preempted at all (with a one or two show exception in a market or two). ABC affiliates seem to all be running at least 3 hours of the 4 hour cartoon lineups today...and most are now running it all.


> So you raise a good question: why not 7-10 PM
> prime time out there?

Well the daytime shows are all earlier on the west coast...Still it cuts the amount of time stations have for syndicated shows. Now that UPN, WB, and Fox all have prime time lineups, starting at 7 PM would cut an hour off when these stations run high priced sitcoms. In Central and Mountain time zones the early fringe is shorter so that could cut into viable timeslots to run stronger shows.

Maybe though an early prime time should happen on west coast provided all stations observe it and not just some.
 
Re: NBC Daytime schedule and NEtwork news time

NBC's
> daytime lineup of 2 shows I believe airs various times
> dependning on the affiliate...not sure where offical times
> for DAys and Passions are.
All of the west coast NBC affilates run NBC daytime program at 1PM, Days of our Lives, and at 2, Passions. Only KGW in Portland, and KSBY in San Luis Osbusibo(sp.) run Days of our lives at a different. Time. KGW runs at 3PM while KSBY runs at Noon.


> Network News I believe is at 5:30 PM rather than 6:30 PM
> with Local News back at 6 PM. But then Prime Time begins at
> 8 PM still and goes till 11 PM. Late Night shows also begin
> at 11:30.
The only markets that I know run network news at 6:30PM is in Los Angeles and Bakersfield except for ABC 23 KERO. Majority of the affilates run Network News at 5:30PM Execpt for Seattle that they choose to run at 6PM.
 
> Network News I believe is at 5:30 PM rather than 6:30 PM
> with Local News back at 6 PM.

Depends on the market.
In Los Angeles, all three network O&Os (KABC, KCBS, KNBC) run the network newscasts at 6:30.
In San Diego, the NBC station (KNSD) runs network at 5:30, but the other two network affiliates (KFMB, KGTV) run network news at 6:00. Ditto Eureka (KIEM at 5:30; KVIQ, KAEF at 6:00).
In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO, KNTV, KPIX) run the network at 5:30. Ditto Fresno (KFSN, KGPE, KSEE), Sacramento (KCRA, KOVR, KXTV), Central Coast (KCOY, KEYT, KSBY) and Palm Springs (KESQ, KMIR, KPSP).
In Bakersfield, the ABC station (KERO) runs network at 5:30, the other two (KBAK, KGET) at 6:30.
In Chico-Redding, all three (KHSL, KNVN, KRCR) run the network at 6:00.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> In San Diego, the NBC station (KNSD) runs network at 5:30,
> but the other two network affiliates (KFMB, KGTV) run
> network news at 6:00. Ditto Eureka (KIEM at 5:30; KVIQ,
> KAEF at 6:00).

Ditto Seattle. KOMO and KING airs it at 6pm, and KIRO airs it at 5:30. KIRO used to air CBS Evening News at 6 as well; they only moved it to 5:30 within the last year.

> In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO, KNTV,
> KPIX) run the network at 5:30.

I seem to remember KPIX used to air CBS E/N at 6pm.<P ID="signature">______________
Derek
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.tvvancouver.cjb.net>TV.Vancouver</a>: Covering TV stations in Vancouver, BC</P>
 
Re: NBC Daytime schedule and NEtwork news time

> NBC's
> > daytime lineup of 2 shows I believe airs various times
> > dependning on the affiliate...not sure where offical times
>
> > for DAys and Passions are.
> All of the west coast NBC affilates run NBC daytime program
> at 1PM, Days of our Lives, and at 2, Passions. Only KGW in
> Portland, and KSBY in San Luis Osbusibo(sp.) run Days of our
> lives at a different. Time. KGW runs at 3PM while KSBY runs
> at Noon.
>
>
> > Network News I believe is at 5:30 PM rather than 6:30 PM
> > with Local News back at 6 PM. But then Prime Time begins
> at
> > 8 PM still and goes till 11 PM. Late Night shows also
> begin
> > at 11:30.
> The only markets that I know run network news at 6:30PM is
> in Los Angeles and Bakersfield except for ABC 23 KERO.
> Majority of the affilates run Network News at 5:30PM Execpt
> for Seattle that they choose to run at 6PM.
>
I believe NBC officially feeds "Days of Our Lives" and "Passions" in all time zones at 1 PM and 2 PM respectively. However, the network does make the soaps available to affiliates earlier to offer flexibility to those stations choosing to run the shows at different times. Hence, in addition to the stations you mentioned, NBC O&O WCAU in Philadelphia runs "Days" at noon followed by "Passions" at 1 PM.
 
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