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KPFA

I noticed looking at the SF ratings, that KPFA gets a pitiful 0.3 share. I also notice that KQED is number 4 in the market, so obviously it's not a market that's unfriendly to public radio. I've listened somewhat over the internet, and my impression is that while I agree with much of what they have to say (but not all), their presentation is so poor that it must be pushing people away. As in "let's take a controversial subject and make it boring".

I understand, though, from watching a TV documentary on the station, that KPFA has built nice studios in a nice building, so they must be getting money from somewhere. Is it a few donors giving large amounts, or do they get a lot of money from people who listen to the internet stream but obviously don't show in the ratings? Or are people who believe in the cause but none-the-less don't listen who are giving large sums.

I also understand (correct me gently if I'm wrong) that the station's signal does not cover the whole market, so that would obviously influence their share.

Can anyone give me some insight here? And please don't turn this into a political argument, thank you!
 
kc1ih said:
I noticed looking at the SF ratings, that KPFA gets a pitiful 0.3 share. I also notice that KQED is number 4 in the market, so obviously it's not a market that's unfriendly to public radio. I've listened somewhat over the internet, and my impression is that while I agree with much of what they have to say (but not all), their presentation is so poor that it must be pushing people away. As in "let's take a controversial subject and make it boring".

I understand, though, from watching a TV documentary on the station, that KPFA has built nice studios in a nice building, so they must be getting money from somewhere. Is it a few donors giving large amounts, or do they get a lot of money from people who listen to the internet stream but obviously don't show in the ratings? Or are people who believe in the cause but none-the-less don't listen who are giving large sums.

I also understand (correct me gently if I'm wrong) that the station's signal does not cover the whole market, so that would obviously influence their share.

Can anyone give me some insight here? And please don't turn this into a political argument, thank you!

KPFA have never been mass appeal in the last 61 years.
 
Pacifica sister station WBAI New York has never had mass appeal and lately has been lucky to pay its bills! KPFA and WBAI both have sticks on the commercial FM band in SF and NYC respectively. How are they able to hang onto those valuable pieces of broadcast real estate? :)
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
kc1ih said:
I noticed looking at the SF ratings, that KPFA gets a pitiful 0.3 share. I also notice that KQED is number 4 in the market, so obviously it's not a market that's unfriendly to public radio. I've listened somewhat over the internet, and my impression is that while I agree with much of what they have to say (but not all), their presentation is so poor that it must be pushing people away. As in "let's take a controversial subject and make it boring".

I understand, though, from watching a TV documentary on the station, that KPFA has built nice studios in a nice building, so they must be getting money from somewhere. Is it a few donors giving large amounts, or do they get a lot of money from people who listen to the internet stream but obviously don't show in the ratings? Or are people who believe in the cause but none-the-less don't listen who are giving large sums.

I also understand (correct me gently if I'm wrong) that the station's signal does not cover the whole market, so that would obviously influence their share.

Can anyone give me some insight here? And please don't turn this into a political argument, thank you!

KPFA have never been mass appeal in the last 61 years.

KPFA was one of the stronger signals a better coverages in the Bay Area. KPFA's sister station in Los Angeles has the strongest signal and the largest coverage footprint in Southern California. That being said, it has a relatively small audience as well.

Pacifica Radio= Strong Signal= Small Audience for both KPFA and KPFK

KPCC (NPR for LA)- Moderately Weak Signal- Large Audience

KQED = Strong Signal = Largest Audience of all NPR stations on the west coast.
 
kc1ih said:
I understand, though, from watching a TV documentary on the station, that KPFA has built nice studios in a nice building, so they must be getting money from somewhere. Is it a few donors giving large amounts, or do they get a lot of money from people who listen to the internet stream but obviously don't show in the ratings? Or are people who believe in the cause but none-the-less don't listen who are giving large sums.

KPFA's previous studios were a rundown wreck they'd been in for decades. KPFA and Pacifica had expanded a lot over the years and they simply had to get out. Sure, they build new studios and offices. They mortgaged themselves to the hilt to do that. They're not rich at all. The struggle with KPFA and other Pacifica stations is how to stay true to their vision and yet make the stations listenable enough to attract a wider audience. Other Pacifica stations began to augment their formats with lots of music. KPFT specializes in country music, WPFW in jazz and R&B. Their ratings went up, but at a sacrifice of time devoted to politics.

So, which would you prefer, a station with a political vision or a station with ratings? That's basically what it comes down to with Pacifica.
 
The signal is not very good to me, I am in the hills of the east bay and can't even get the signal
 
KPFB, you only can hear a 8-mile radius around downtown Berkeley, otherwise KOHL 89.3 from Fremont is killing the signal so is KPOO 89.5fm from San Francisco.
 
The site on top of the Caldecott Tunnel seems to be a prime location for a transmitter. That site means they there's less of a need to set up a network of boosters for the Tri-Valley area. The site would be especially good for TV as it's troublesome from my experience to receive SF TV signals from Concord, Walnut Creek, etc. But I guess no matter where a SF/OAK transmitter is located, there's bound to be dead spots.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
KPFA's sister station in Los Angeles has the strongest signal and the largest coverage footprint in Southern California. That being said, it has a relatively small audience as well.

"Relatively small" is an understatement... the station regularly averages around 52nd or so in the LA 12+.

Whle the signal has improved in the last few years, it used to be pretty erratic arond the market due to the 10 bay antenna up on Wilson which was quite "toothy" and did not have the right beam tilt and null fill ever.
 
The Chief Engineer (not the current one) at KPFK once told me about a frequency swap offer made to KPFA by King Broadcasting, when they owned KYA-FM. KPFA's expenses would have been paid in perpetuity. Pacifica turned the offer down cold, to avoid any chance of being beholden to anyone but its listeners.

That is one hell of a signal!
 
bobgowa said:
The Chief Engineer (not the current one) at KPFK once told me about a frequency swap offer made to KPFA by King Broadcasting, when they owned KYA-FM. KPFA's expenses would have been paid in perpetuity. Pacifica turned the offer down cold, to avoid any chance of being beholden to anyone but its listeners.

That is one hell of a signal!

My big fantasy here in Los Angeles is for KPCC (The local NPR News station) to swap frequencies with KPFK for financial consideration. Cume wise, KPFK has about 1 watt for every listener and KPCC has about 900 listeners for every watt at their current frequency.

I'm sure people at Pacifica would scream at that idea. Perhaps, I should suggest this on the LA board.
 
bobgowa said:
The Chief Engineer (not the current one) at KPFK once told me about a frequency swap offer made to KPFA by King Broadcasting, when they owned KYA-FM. KPFA's expenses would have been paid in perpetuity. Pacifica turned the offer down cold, to avoid any chance of being beholden to anyone but its listeners.

That is one hell of a signal!

After Lorenzo Milam left KRAB in Seattle the board who ran the Jack Straw Memorial Foundation (owners of KRAB) decided to take an offer from a commercial broadcaster and give up their commercial channel for $$$ and the hope that they could land a NCE channel as a replacement. Well, time went on and they couldn't get one except an extreme rimshot to Seattle. After a few years running KSER, the board lost interest and spun off KSER to local listeners. Now what was once KRAB is now basically just a small Seattle recording studio.

So, I guess with that kind of legacy, it's no wonder Pacifica doesn't want to be tempted by an endowment or a frequency swap to an inferior signal. And believe me, 93.3 is inferior.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
bobgowa said:
The Chief Engineer (not the current one) at KPFK once told me about a frequency swap offer made to KPFA by King Broadcasting, when they owned KYA-FM. KPFA's expenses would have been paid in perpetuity. Pacifica turned the offer down cold, to avoid any chance of being beholden to anyone but its listeners.

That is one hell of a signal!

My big fantasy here in Los Angeles is for KPCC (The local NPR News station) to swap frequencies with KPFK for financial consideration. Cume wise, KPFK has about 1 watt for every listener and KPCC has about 900 listeners for every watt at their current frequency.

I'm sure people at Pacifica would scream at that idea. Perhaps, I should suggest this on the LA board.

Why on earth would you want KPCC to take over KPFK's channel? The NPR programs are already heard in LA on KCRW and in San Berdoo on KVCR. KPCC really offers nothing new except a 2-hour interview show, unless I'm missing something here. Meanwhile, KPFK offers all kinds of stuff not duplicated elsewhere in Southern California.
 
DavidKaye said:
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
bobgowa said:
The Chief Engineer (not the current one) at KPFK once told me about a frequency swap offer made to KPFA by King Broadcasting, when they owned KYA-FM. KPFA's expenses would have been paid in perpetuity. Pacifica turned the offer down cold, to avoid any chance of being beholden to anyone but its listeners.

That is one hell of a signal!

My big fantasy here in Los Angeles is for KPCC (The local NPR News station) to swap frequencies with KPFK for financial consideration. Cume wise, KPFK has about 1 watt for every listener and KPCC has about 900 listeners for every watt at their current frequency.

I'm sure people at Pacifica would scream at that idea. Perhaps, I should suggest this on the LA board.

Why on earth would you want KPCC to take over KPFK's channel? The NPR programs are already heard in LA on KCRW and in San Berdoo on KVCR. KPCC really offers nothing new except a 2-hour interview show, unless I'm missing something here. Meanwhile, KPFK offers all kinds of stuff not duplicated elsewhere in Southern California.

KPCC is LA's version of KQED. KVCR doesn't reach most of LA and KCRW is too focused on their music shows. KPCC became the dominant NPR station down here taking advantage of KCRW's mixed programming. KPCC has a large audience, in spite the their building penetration issues. Their a Sub-Par Class B on Mt. Wilson with an ERP of 600 watts.

I find KCRW to be a nice backup station for Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Their talk shows are pretty good, but they don't have much of a news department.
KPCC, on the other hand, has a strong news department.
 
I've become a semi-regular listener to "Democracy Now" on KPFA (apparently their highest-rated program) but I've noticed that some of their other programming - such as their Morning Show - has become much more "NPR-ish" in style/sound than I remember KPFA sounding in the past... I suspect that one of their ratings problems is the public perception of what they sound like, based on past experience. In other words, people tuned in, heard things that were grating or otherwise "difficult" and went elsewhere, never to return.

There was a huge stink about 10 years ago when Pacifica tried to homogenize the programming on all of its 5 stations to make them more listener-friendly and NPR-like in style. Massive protests and demonstrations ensued at the KPFA location and elsewhere... major drama... and that attempt mostly failed. ( More info about that here: http://www.fsm-a.org/kpfa/ - note: some links there are dead or have changed...)
 
marshallstax's email reminds us that Pacifica's biggest "enemies" are inside the building. Relying on hundreds of volunteer on-air hosts, as if it's a mark of honor, has really kept their presentation value marginal, at best, during a lot of the broadcast day.

In the past, there were several times I heard lengthy dead air (like, 30 minutes or more) because the next volunteer host didn't come in for their every-third-week airshift, and the previous program host wasn't about to stick around to fill in for them. And they told us so on the air. Otherwise, hosts with timid quavering voices and lots of lip smacking and "ums" also tend to run recorded announcements at about half the volume that they should air. Really made it a strain to listen and enjoy, when the nervous energy overrides the programming. Unless you're so uber-contrarian that you take it as a requirement to be unprofessional, just to stick it to whomever! (Which does seem to summarize a lot of their core audience, from those I've tried to talk to about this over the years.)

No one without a masochistic complex will even apply for a management job at KPFA anymore, because there's always some wannabe-wounded soul with a tiny program ready to rally the troops to oppose any sort of management policy for how to conduct oneself on-air, or for a revision of the extremely complicated program schedule so that any but a self-chosen few can figure out what's on the air. I also think they've had an opening for a new general manager for at least 5 years now.

In summary, I think KPFA, for all of its laudible intentions, is a model for keeping radio irrelevant to the broader community, by being obsessivly focused on internal spats, etc, instead of trying to complete in the media landscape. KPFA could still cover plenty of controversial topics and have local discussion programming and esoteric music shows and attract three times their current audience - if someone would be given the authority to make programming changes, reduce the on-air volunteer numbers to only those with talent and a reliable track record, and then put more effort into making them better radio hosts, instead of wondering if someone is going to fire a bullet thru their window tonight.

Relying so heavily on specialized shows balkanizes the station's potential for being an outlet that more people would rely on consistently, when they know they're going to hear a host they like every morning or afternoon, and for more than an hour. I know that they have made some strides in that direction. But not nearly enough, due to the guaranteed bloodletting that occurs over every little thing, and with a snarky alternative press ready to further promote the cause of the ne'er do wells, and keep the station from being a geniune media competitor to themselves.

Saddest part of this, to me, is the number of small "community radio" outlets, particularly in the Western US, who model themselves after KPFA, and find similar levels of insignificance in their communities, apart from a too-small core of listeners who can't understand why everyone else doesn't owe them a contribution to stay on the air. Wonder how many more years these stations have left, since raising money is always a huge challenge for them, and the program schedule and presentation style have a lot to do with that, from what I hear.

There's lots of opportunity to compete with KQED, or to counterprogram it, and attract a significant Bay Area audience to another non-comm signal. Too bad KPFA, KALW, and KCSM all severely underperform their potential for gaining new listeners. Anyone care to speculate on why SF has public radio listening so heavily skewed to one station, when many other markets often have two or three different public radio outlets that each seem to attract audiences above a 1.0 share?
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
marshallstax's email reminds us that Pacifica's biggest "enemies" are inside the building. Relying on hundreds of volunteer on-air hosts, as if it's a mark of honor, has really kept their presentation value marginal, at best, during a lot of the broadcast day.

No one without a masochistic complex will even apply for a management job at KPFA anymore, because there's always some wannabe-wounded soul with a tiny program ready to rally the troops to oppose any sort of management policy for how to conduct oneself on-air, or for a revision of the extremely complicated program schedule so that any but a self-chosen few can figure out what's on the air. I also think they've had an opening for a new general manager for at least 5 years now.

In summary, I think KPFA, for all of its laudible intentions, is a model for keeping radio irrelevant to the broader community, by being obsessivly focused on internal spats, etc, instead of trying to complete in the media landscape.

That's always been my frustration with the station, and why I rarely listen. To me, KPFA is a microcosm of what's wrong with left-wing radicals. I spent some time in college radical circles in the late 60s, and I always felt we were our own worst enemies. All of our "laudable intentions" ended up breaking down into internecine warfare. At the time, I attributed it to immaturity - most of us (and I include myself) were coddled young middle class Caucasians without any real world experience. But later it became clear that it was a trait of left-wing radical movements in general.

Circular firing squad, and all that.
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
marshallstax's email reminds us that Pacifica's biggest "enemies" are inside the building. Relying on hundreds of volunteer on-air hosts, as if it's a mark of honor, has really kept their presentation value marginal, at best, during a lot of the broadcast day.

In the past, yes. I think it's much better run these days.

There's lots of opportunity to compete with KQED, or to counterprogram it, and attract a significant Bay Area audience to another non-comm signal. Too bad KPFA, KALW, and KCSM all severely underperform their potential for gaining new listeners. Anyone care to speculate on why SF has public radio listening so heavily skewed to one station, when many other markets often have two or three different public radio outlets that each seem to attract audiences above a 1.0 share?

What's KALW doing wrong? Nothing. KQED-FM has 115,000 watts. KALW has 1900 watts, or about 1/100th the power of KQED. Their signal is hemmed in by co- and adjacent channel assignments that prevent them from boosting power. For its signal coverage, KALW does quite nicely, thank you.
 
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