KPFK translator/XHTIM

[davideduardo]

Re: ""

Yeah, I figured ad hominem attacks were coming.

Describing the attitude you have demonstrated in your posts is hardly an ad hominem, unless you think that saying "it's raining" is an ad homimem against the weather.

You clearly don't know me if you're attempting to suggest I hold any racist bias toward anyone. I am as non "jingoistic" as they come. For you to imply such is a cheap shot of the greatest magnitude.

Jingoism has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It's defined in the Oxford dictionary as "Extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive foreign policy."

Or, in this case, one who thinks their government's way of doing things is just by nature better than any other government's way of doing things.

You continuously try to justify the illegal operations of numerous Mexican border stations with terms like "sovereignty" and "interpretation" and "absoluteness of the agreement" and "more tolerance to margins."

A Mexican station can only be deemed "illegal" by the pertinent authorities in Mexico. You can claim that some operations are illegal, but since you do not know the degree of enforcement, margins of tolerance, the Mexican equivalent of case law, etc. the most you can say is that a station might not be in accordance with the existing agreements between the US and Mexico. And those agreements are not law.

This is nothing but spin on the fact that there are once again known numerous Mexican border stations that simply operate outside of their assigned parameters,

How do you know what the parameters are? What if power changes are tolerated if they are within +/- 75% of the permit value? Then many stations you claim are "illegal" are in full compliance with the regulations of the licensing country.

at will, with no enforcement of the agreements between the U.S. and Mexico as to assignments.

If the matters have been raised via the Mixed Commission, and nothing has been done, then the operations have to be deemed as being within the realm of the margins of tolerance by Mexico. If the US State Department has not acted on an escalation of the matter to a higher level, then the US government has also decided that the variation is tolerable or, in the overall picture of diplomacy, not worth the effort.

How many are there in the American border zone? KSIQ? Who else?

More than you think. Start with 890 in Laredo... and then go back to the "gold rush" use of frequencies in or near the border zone by the US, both AM in the 30's and 40's and then FM in the 70's, it is not so easy to point the finger south in righteous indignation.

If there is anyone that presents a jingoistic attitude, I submit it is you, Mr. Gleason.

Thus proving, a second time, that you don't understand the word.

 

[Big 121]

In all fairness to XHTIM, there were some seasonal atmospheric conditions which lasted until a "spectacular" ending on Friday. I had checked the
90.7 signal Wednesday, and it was close to the normal level in E. county. But at the Woodson height, it must have "ducted" enough to be
the signal captured by the RX. At Miramar, line of sight to Woodson, KDB (Santa Barbara) was so strong, it blanked out the translator. Friday brought in FM's from Texas and Oklahoma so strong, the CCrane SW was picking them up on 1 foot of antenna. 95.9, 96.1, 98.5 , 104.1 ,106.1 & 106.9 each had several stations coming in and out.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Re: ""

Yeah, I figured ad hominem attacks were coming.

Describing the attitude you have demonstrated in your posts is hardly an ad hominem, unless you think that saying "it's raining" is an ad homimem against the weather.

You clearly don't know me if you're attempting to suggest I hold any racist bias toward anyone. I am as non "jingoistic" as they come. For you to imply such is a cheap shot of the greatest magnitude.

Jingoism has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It's defined in the Oxford dictionary as "Extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive foreign policy."

Or, in this case, one who thinks their government's way of doing things is just by nature better than any other government's way of doing things.

And the rest of the definition is "In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism." You are in fact accusing me of bias, which is nothing more than an effort on your part to divert the real issue of legality of operation of many Mexican licensees.

You continuously try to justify the illegal operations of numerous Mexican border stations with terms like "sovereignty" and "interpretation" and "absoluteness of the agreement" and "more tolerance to margins."

A Mexican station can only be deemed "illegal" by the pertinent authorities in Mexico. You can claim that some operations are illegal, but since you do not know the degree of enforcement, margins of tolerance, the Mexican equivalent of case law, etc. the most you can say is that a station might not be in accordance with the existing agreements between the US and Mexico. And those agreements are not law.

And the pertinent authorities in Mexico refuse to act on complaints brought forth by the pertinent authorities of the U.S. This game has been played for years and continues to deteriorate to the degredation of properly operating U.S. licensees. Just because Mexico won't enforce doesn't make the illegal operations legal.

This is nothing but spin on the fact that there are once again known numerous Mexican border stations that simply operate outside of their assigned parameters,

How do you know what the parameters are? What if power changes are tolerated if they are within +/- 75% of the permit value? Then many stations you claim are "illegal" are in full compliance with the regulations of the licensing country.

This is nonsense. The allocations and parameters are easily found just as they are with U.S. licensees. Is it really your position that a +/- 75% variation in power or directional parameters are the allowed tolerance in Mexico? Really? Can you point me to the pertinent section of the rules for Mexican licensees?

at will, with no enforcement of the agreements between the U.S. and Mexico as to assignments.

If the matters have been raised via the Mixed Commission, and nothing has been done, then the operations have to be deemed as being within the realm of the margins of tolerance by Mexico. If the US State Department has not acted on an escalation of the matter to a higher level, then the US government has also decided that the variation is tolerable or, in the overall picture of diplomacy, not worth the effort.

Or the reality that the Mexican authorities don't care, or may be corrupt in allowing these violators to operate as they please.

How many are there in the American border zone? KSIQ? Who else?

More than you think. Start with 890 in Laredo... and then go back to the "gold rush" use of frequencies in or near the border zone by the US, both AM in the 30's and 40's and then FM in the 70's, it is not so easy to point the finger south in righteous indignation.

I couldn't care less what happened 70 or 80 years ago. I care about the present day blatant operation of out of licensed parameters.

If there is anyone that presents a jingoistic attitude, I submit it is you, Mr. Gleason.

Thus proving, a second time, that you don't understand the word.

Already addressed above.

 

[jprg]

I think all the AM staton in San Diego needs to raise power to 250,000 watts with a directional signal south

 

[Big 121]

Let's not forget that on some of these "border blasters", American engineers consulted, designed and assisted in building them. Along with
American companies which supplied the higher power transmitters, and "special" antennas....

 

[davideduardo]

Let's not forget that on some of these "border blasters", American engineers consulted, designed and assisted in building them. Along with
American companies which supplied the higher power transmitters, and "special" antennas....

And those stations were completely legal. They were licensed and ran per the parameters of Mexican law, and whether the US thought they were legal or not did not matter.

The maximum power, today, on AM in Mexico is 250,000 watts... although Mexico is trying to move what may be as many as 75% of all AM stations to FM, with the first group of 5 states to have no AM after the transition period.

 

[davideduardo]

I think all the AM staton in San Diego needs to raise power to 250,000 watts with a directional signal south

That is about what the US did in the 30's and 40's... pushing dozens of directional signals towards Mexico in the period when the US did not much care what other countries did. Mexico retaliated by allowing quite a few higher power stations, most targeted at US listeners.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Let's not forget that on some of these "border blasters", American engineers consulted, designed and assisted in building them. Along with
American companies which supplied the higher power transmitters, and "special" antennas....

Absolutely agreed, and it continues today. However, it's the final operator responsible for compliance.

 

[SDRadio]

As of today, there are more posters and readers to this thread than listeners to the translator of KPFK.

 

[600kogo]

Hummm the highest power in Mexico is 250kw and the highest allowed in the US is 50KW......Something doesn't quite sound fair there. If I were CC, CBS, Cumulus, and all of the biggies I would get some really good lobbyists and stir up something in Washington to renegotiate the treaty with Mexico to even the playing field. As Gleason has said they are abiding by the rules of mexico, and conforming to the "spirit" of the treaty. So since the current system doesn't work then its time to fix it!

With CC and CBS' resources this should be pretty easy, at least to stir up the can of worms. Get some CBS reporters to put this on the nightly news and put it right out front in the public eye.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

"Might makes right" seems to be the impetus behind some of this discussion. Not a very sustainable way to live with your neighbors, whether on the dial, or across the border, in the long run now, is it?

Then again, it goes both ways. Perhaps I'll start a new threat to feed the frustration over a small, high wattage AM station that has popped up recently and has caused severe interference to an all-news station whose transmitter is just a few miles over the US border in British Columbia.

It seems that the FCC has been unable or unwilling to respond to massive interference complaints from a newly licensed AM station in Oregon that's on the same frequency (AM 1130) as the 50kw all news CKWX in Vancouver. The Vancouver station has a highly complex directional array, to protect San Diego's AM 1130, I believe, but still puts a decent fulltime signal south to Seattle. Until the new station in Oregon popped up a few months ago and, especially during critical hours, wipes out CKWX not only on the US side of the border in Washington, but also in many of the eastern suburbs of Vancouver. Until the Oregon station powers down at sunset. Coincidentally, the new station from Oregon is running high power daytime with an all-Mexican music format (which is simulcast on several other AM and FM outlets in the region).

From what I gather, the FCC has had complaints lodged by the Canadian station, and from listeners in BC, and probably in Washington state, too, but doesn't seem to have done anything to make the new station power down and directionalize away from the north.

The result: one of only two all-news radio stations in the Pacific Northwest loses out, due to American inactivity over licensing new stations without regard to the reality of how signals travel thru the air, versus contour lines on a piece of paper. And no longer honoring the protection that used to be required for nearby stations in Canada. Turning one of the few AM stations programmed for a general audience into mush because of sloppy FCC licensing practices is the LAST thing the AM band needs right now to retain listeners in the Northwest, Southwest, or anywhere in the USA.

 

[600kogo]

The FCC would not have licensed the station without the approval of the Canadian government. The FCC makes it extremely difficult to license a station. If there is interference in the protected contour they will make them power down. If it is not in the protected contour of the station all bets are off! But I would guess with the cuts at the FCC and the federal government that it is taking them a while to get their "ducks in a row". It took 5 years for the FCC to revolk the license of a station that had not been on the air for over 5 years (the tower site was taken by the county for back taxes), but because it was a minority broadcaster they had to make sure it didn't look like discrimination!! It takes time, and they have to make sure it's a repeat problem not just atmospheric or temporary equipment failure.

The FCC takes all complaints seriously ESPECIALLY ones from another government! Stand by there will be action if it is interferening in the canadian station's protected contour.

 

[davideduardo]

Hummm the highest power in Mexico is 250kw and the highest allowed in the US is 50KW......Something doesn't quite sound fair there.

During the NARBA negotiations starting in the late 30's. Mexico was encouraged not to allow any more Goat Gland stations, but in the process they got more clear channels. Mexico granted a number of 100 and 150 kw stations, and one 250 kw station. In further NARBA negotiations, Mexico got 1 B status on 540, forcing KFMB to 760 and creating a 150 kw station in Central Mexico.

There's nothing to negotiate. The treaty that created the various classes of channels that exist today included the US and Mexico.

There was an association of clear channel broadcasters in the US, representing the 1.A clears and which tried all the way through 1968 to get powers of up to 750 kw on the US clears, which they interpreted that NARBA, but not the FCC, allowed.

If I were CC, CBS, Cumulus, and all of the biggies I would get some really good lobbyists and stir up something in Washington to renegotiate the treaty with Mexico to even the playing field. As Gleason has said they are abiding by the rules of mexico, and conforming to the "spirit" of the treaty. So since the current system doesn't work then its time to fix it!

I don't think a single one of the former 1-A clears could increase by much, if at all, due to the breakdown of the clears, adjacents and the reality that coverage outside the local rated market is not of much, if any, sales value.

With CC and CBS' resources this should be pretty easy, at least to stir up the can of worms. Get some CBS reporters to put this on the nightly news and put it right out front in the public eye.

There is nothing to gain.

Clear, for example, would rather get some decent night power on their 640 in Atlanta than to add some power on KFI, where the benefit would be having a better signal in Barstow, Blythe, Bishop and Brawley.

 

[davideduardo]

The FCC takes all complaints seriously ESPECIALLY ones from another government! Stand by there will be action if it is interferening in the canadian station's protected contour.

I don't see any evidence of an official complaint. What we have here is one person's anecdotal experience, which may in fact be two signals "interferring" in areas where neither is entitled to protection.

 

[Big 121]

CKWX and KPWX are approx. 240 miles apart. In Centralia, their "beyond fringe" signals overlap. In any case, the FCC website for KPWX has
correspondence files approving the field measurements/calculations which protect CKWX.No protests have been filed RE:KPWX. On the way to Sacramento,I noticed 920 has two stations audible in much the same way, up I-5.

 

[600kogo]

Actually David I believe that CC would probably take more issue with the AM 620 that the gangster Bonilla licensed as a directional, and has it running non directional 10kw. This causes interference to AM 600 KOGO! The 620 is supposed to be pushing all of it's power towards Ensenada, not non-directional right into KOGO. But since the SCT disregards this there is nothing for KOGO to do.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually David I believe that CC would probably take more issue with the AM 620 that the gangster Bonilla licensed as a directional, and has it running non directional 10kw. This causes interference to AM 600 KOGO! The 620 is supposed to be pushing all of it's power towards Ensenada, not non-directional right into KOGO. But since the SCT disregards this there is nothing for KOGO to do.

Add to all that the fact that Mexico licenses AMs at 20 kHz separation, so they see 600 and 620 as normal.

Mexico City (day powers)
690 100 kw
710 10 kw
730 100 kw

 

[SML]

"Add to all that the fact that Mexico licenses AMs at 20 kHz separation, so they see 600 and 620 as normal"

That is one thing I tend to agree with. The very conservative spacings here in the US seem antiquated to me. Radio tuners are much improved, at least as far as selectivity, so insisting on 3rd adjacent protections don't make much sense in this day and age. The FM separations in San Diego/Tijuana are a perfect example of 2nd adjacent spacings working fine. The general public has no problems tuning in 91.1 and avoiding 90.3, or vice-versa, at least that I know of. I never had a problem listening to KNX, XERB and KRLA back in the 1960's either.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I think 2nd adjacent channel spacing would work, if other factors were taken into consideration. I think it varies by market - and I'm not sure it's due to terrain or soil types.
I lived in LA years ago, and even on my most recent visit back there, found no trouble listening to AM 1070, 1090, 1110 and 670, 690, 710 without any splatter issues between the So Cal stations, and the Tijuana ones squeezed in between them.

However, in Seattle, where I now live, the local AM stations splatter all over the dial, and make listening to 50kw CBU on 690 from 100 miles away in Vancouver next to impossible much of the time. Even third adjacents to the local 50kwers on 710 and 1000 often suffer a lot of jamming noise from the sidebands. It's not because I'm using a faulty radio - I've noticed it on all receivers. And I'm not adjacent to any transmitter sites - the splattering is good for at least a 50 mile radius of the TX sites on Vashon Island. But Seattle's AM1090's not so bad splattering on 1070 and 1110 up here. Also KIXI AM880 and KVI AM570 regularly show up on AM 690, 860 and 900, among other splatter zones well outside what I would consider customary, on every radio I've tried.

I'm noticing a little less splatter since 710 KIRO switched to an all-sports format. And the splatter on 690 CBU used to go away Sunday nights when KIRO used to air old time radio shows. But as soon as the commercial breaks came on, splatter was all over the second adjacent below and up to the third adjacent above the main freq.

I'm not sure what accounts for the difference in Seattle versus LA and other markets, where I've heard nearby 2nd adjacents w/o much splatter. Lack of parental supervision?? I've found the local FCC field office to be less than intelligent or interested in discussing any such technical matters.