KPLU expects West Seattle interference at 88.1

[valvashon]

As of 5:15 pm on Sunday night (Dec. 18th) the 88.1 signal is being interfered with by a dead carrier that has no stereo pilot. Happening south of 35th and Trenton and gets worse in the Arbor Heights area. Interference in Arbor Heights is to the point of making the KPLU 88.1 translator unlistenable. The interference in these areas is new.

Val

 

[Bongwater]

While on the topic of KMTT, does anyone remember the reasons why they switched frequencies from 103.9 to 103.7 back in the late 1970's (as KBRD)? I've always been curious about this.

103.9 at the time was a Class A Local channel with a max power of 3,000 watts. So for a power boost, they had to switch to 103.7.

These channels and their limited power outputs were done away with in the '90s......

 

[IndigoCoyote]

You are correct, BW. Seems most new stations are either short spaced Cs of some sort, or imported higher powered rimshots.

 

[Bongwater]

You are correct, BW. Seems most new stations are either short spaced Cs of some sort, or imported higher powered rimshots.

Now, does anybody remember what the Class A FM frequencies were?

(92.1, 92.7, 93.5, 94.3, 95.3, 95.9, 96.7, 97.7, 98.3, 99.3, 100.1, 100.9, 101.7, 102.3, 103.1, 103.9, 104.9, 105.5, 106.3 & 107.1).

 

[Dan Sys]

Thanks for explaining the situation Bongwater. I guess back then I thought it was strange as 103.9 had a clear shot to this area. Moving to 103.7 resulted in KBRD being obliderated by slop from CHQM 103.5.

 

[semoochie]

I believe KTAC-FM was running about 900 watts. It got out pretty well for a Class A but there's only so much you can do. 100KW @ 600 meters HAAT is better than 3KW @ 100 meters, no matter how you slice it!

 

[Bongwater]

I believe KTAC-FM was running about 900 watts. It got out pretty well for a Class A but there's only so much you can do. 100KW @ 600 meters HAAT is better than 3KW @ 100 meters, no matter how you slice it!

Wasn't KTAC-FM's 103.9 transmitter/tower in Tacoma proper before moving to Three Sisters as 103.7 (and KBRD)?

Speaking of KBRD, does anybody remember their legendary "As Beautiful As A Bird In Flight" TV commercial? I swear they ran it from 1979 all the way to early 1991 (I last saw it just DAYS before their switch to KMTT.)

I can't find it on YouTube......

 

[multiplex]

It'll be a sad thing if KPLU's translator moves to 92.1. I'll miss the CBC-2 in Victoria on that frequency. Unfortunately, I seldom get Vancouver's 105.7 as clearly. Yes, I know CBC-2 isn't designed for my ears. God forbid hearing anything but locals, on multiple frequencies.
Thank God for the Internet as radio becomes more and more cluttered and unlistenable.

 

[FMSteve]

I also assume that's why KMTT has the 103.3 translator? I was over there a few years ago, but haven't actually been down towards the water.

I've always said that Entercom's 103.3 translator is not being maximized to it's full extent. They have it in downtown to provide a stronger signal for KMTT. KMTT is running about 88 dbu vs. about 105 dbu for the translator. Yet apparently the translator doesn't utilize a digital or HD transmission system, as far as I can tell (I have an HD Radio). No, the purpose of the translator is simply to penetrate into the buildings downtown. It would be quite interesting to know how many people are actually listening to The Mountain on 103.3. I'd like to hedge my bets and say de minimus.

 

[valvashon]

As of Wednesday at about 5:00 pm the "Ocean Park" station has not been heard since Sunday night. Perhaps they are waiting for the KPLU translator to move or final FCC approval on their installation.

 

[SeattleObserver]

It'll be a sad thing if KPLU's translator moves to 92.1. I'll miss the CBC-2 in Victoria on that frequency. Unfortunately, I seldom get Vancouver's 105.7 as clearly. Yes, I know CBC-2 isn't designed for my ears. God forbid hearing anything but locals, on multiple frequencies.
Thank God for the Internet as radio becomes more and more cluttered and unlistenable.

Ditto. This is the best part of owning a smart phone and (for now) "unlimited" data plan.

 

[valvashon]

As of early Wednesday morning, the new and "improved" KLOP at 88.1 is on the air and interfering with the KPLU translator.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I have not heard the new "Ocean Shores" station interfere with KPLU's translator in Shoreline/North Seattle - I'm still getting KPLU on 88.1, as well as 88.5, pretty strong on the kitchen radio (88.1 with an antenna extended), tho if I whirl the antenna around a bit, there is some sort of K-Love thing happening weakly at one spot on the compass. I drove down to Seattle from Vancouver on Monday, and there was no sign of K-Love on the dial. (Perhaps someone else in this thread mentioned they went back off the air for a few days then.) (Seems like its getting hard to imagine a part of the United States without at least three K-love frequencies available on the car radio! Isn't that what satellite radio was invented for??)

Contrary to some earlier postings in this thread, 92.1 would not work well as alternate translator frequency, due to the equally strong (but low modulation, usually) CBC station from Victoria - actually from a transmitter site on Salt Spring Island. And if you're trying to boost coverage in West Seattle, you don't want to try to compete with any signals coming from across the water. Almost any station with a bit of wattage from Victoria, and even the new stations in Pt Townsend, seem to cover the entire Puget Sound coast, (or should I call it the Salish Sea now?) from Seattle to Vancouver. I say try 102.1 for a translator freq in Seattle if you need to move off of 88.1. The Wenatchee station is just too far away behind a mountain range to be heard anywhere outside of a little weak spurt thru the pass near Everett.

And I want to know how a Seventh Day Adventist group got to build such a good facility on 91.1 this late in the game, without anyone else going for that freq years ago. That new station gets out a long ways - even into Canada.

 

[valvashon]

As of Wednesday at about 5:00 pm the "Ocean Park" station has not been heard since Sunday night. Perhaps they are waiting for the KPLU translator to move or final FCC approval on their installation.

Oops- I meant Tuesday afternoon, not Wednesday. Or maybe they were not on Wednesday afternoon but were on by very early Thursday morning. I have forgotten the day already and it only happened earlier this week. Working in broadcasting wrecks your brain. Don't do it kids! Or maybe it was all that crappy jazz I had to listen to, except for that one Nina Simone song. I discovered that I really don't like jazz. So I don't know why I was so interested in the whole KLOP vs. KPLU on 88.1 thing.

And another episode of Stream of Consciousness Radio comes to a close...

 

[Goldilocks94941]

Correction to my earlier reception report: the new station is now overwhelming the usually strong 88.1 translator in N Seattle/ Shoreline today. Guess they're at full power now. Or else KPLU turned off the translator and gave up.

As for me and my house, we do like jazz, and appreciate the style of jazz KPLU plays weekdays. Tho' it would be nice to get a few of the NPR, PRI and APM Christmas specials in Seattle, since neither NPR outlet here seems to ever deviate from their usual schedule around the holidays to air them. (I say this because I find the 1pm Saturday show a bit hard to listen to when I'm in the mood for something more Christmas-Eve.) Will have to DX the signal on 90.9 from Tacoma. CBC usually has some nice stuff for the holidays, too.

As for how the usually persnickety and oft-feared FCC let K-love upgrade their own translator to a full unattended class C is beyond me. I don't think it's "an act of God." Any insider news on this front since the last thread ran on this topic? The FM band, particularly in the non-commercial area from 88-92 is really getting hard to listen to in the car, from all of the extra interference in recent years.

 

[valvashon]

The FCC website only lists the new power and height as the "licensed" station- it is no longer the "construction permit" (there used to be two listings). That said, KLOP has always been a real station with a real call sign, not a translator in the strictest sense of the word (i.e., having a call sign such as K201AA). However, since there's no real local origination to speak of stations such as these operate as translators, even though they have four letter call signs.

I'm not sure in what sense you called the Ocean Park K-Love station a translator, but it can be an apt description.

Val

 

[Dan Sys]

I dug up the application from last April for CBU-2 88.1 to increase power from 19,500 to 97,600 watts maximum ERP. Towards the south the coverage maps included in the application show the 3mV/m contours reaching Bellingham and the 500 uV/m contours reaching Mount Vernon, nothing towards the Olympic peninsula. Not really a huge increase in coverage from their existing signal. I expect approval any day now as previous issues with CHEK TV-6 moving to digital have been resolved now.

Here's all the technical jargon from the application for those who understand it (I sure don't):

ENGINEERING BRIEF FOR AN INCREASE IN OPERATING PARAMETERS FOR CBC RADIO ONE SPECTRUM ENGINEERING - TRANSMISSION Page 11

3.1.6 Case 6: Proposed station versus KLOP(FM) ch. 201C in Ocean Park, WA

Azimuth towards proposed station: 2.9o
Azimuth from proposed station: 183.0o
Distance to proposed station: 265.1 km
Minimum distance required: 306.0 km
Margin: -40.9 km

Interference of proposed station on KLOP(FM):

Maximum permissible interfering field strength on KLOP(FM)’s 54 dBu contour: 34 dBu
Extent of KLOP(FM)’s protected contour towards the proposed station (Calculated with F(50,50) curves, using limited parameters ERP = 11.0 kW and HAAT = 638.7 m): 84.4 km
Extent of the proposed station’s 34 dBu contour towards KLOP(FM) (Calculated with F(50,10) curves, using ERP = 84.3 kW and HAAT = 852.7 m) : 245.3 km
Margin between KLOP(FM)’s protected contour and the proposed station’s F(50,10) 34 dBu contour: -64.6 km

Interference of KLOP(FM) on proposed station:

Maximum permissible interfering field strength on proposed station’s 54 dBu contour: 34 dBu
Extent of proposed station’s maximum protected contour towards the proposed station: 97.0 km
Extent of KLOP(FM)’s 34 dBu contour towards the proposed station (Calculated with F(50,10) curves, using ERP = 11.0 kW and HAAT = 638.7 m): 181.6 km
Margin between the proposed station’s F(50,50) 54 dBu contour and KLOP(FM)’s 34 dBu contour: -13.5 km

Discussion of results

The above analysis demonstrates that there will be overlap between the maximum permitted interfering contour and the maximum protected contour of the proposed station and KLOP(FM) station in Ocean Park, WA. It should be noted that the proposed 34du contour towards KLOP(FM) is within IC’s allotment 34dBu contour located on Saturna Island, BC. Consequently, the proposed CBC station should be acceptable to the FCC. In addition, the KLOP(FM) station in Ocean Park, WA, will create interference to the proposed CBC station as shown on map F-8242 in Appendix F, and the CBC will accept such potential interference.

 

[w9wi]

Here's all the technical jargon from the application for those who understand it (I sure don't):

ENGINEERING BRIEF FOR AN INCREASE IN OPERATING PARAMETERS FOR CBC RADIO ONE SPECTRUM ENGINEERING - TRANSMISSION Page 11

3.1.6 Case 6: Proposed station versus KLOP(FM) ch. 201C in Ocean Park, WA

Azimuth towards proposed station: 2.9o
Azimuth from proposed station: 183.0o
Distance to proposed station: 265.1 km
Minimum distance required: 306.0 km
Margin: -40.9 km

Interference of proposed station on KLOP(FM):

Maximum permissible interfering field strength on KLOP(FM)’s 54 dBu contour: 34 dBu
Extent of KLOP(FM)’s protected contour towards the proposed station (Calculated with F(50,50) curves, using limited parameters ERP = 11.0 kW and HAAT = 638.7 m): 84.4 km
Extent of the proposed station’s 34 dBu contour towards KLOP(FM) (Calculated with F(50,10) curves, using ERP = 84.3 kW and HAAT = 852.7 m) : 245.3 km
Margin between KLOP(FM)’s protected contour and the proposed station’s F(50,10) 34 dBu contour: -64.6 km
Interference of KLOP(FM) on proposed station:

Maximum permissible interfering field strength on proposed station’s 54 dBu contour: 34 dBu
Extent of proposed station’s maximum protected contour towards the proposed station: 97.0 km
Extent of KLOP(FM)’s 34 dBu contour towards the proposed station (Calculated with F(50,10) curves, using ERP = 11.0 kW and HAAT = 638.7 m): 181.6 km
Margin between the proposed station’s F(50,50) 54 dBu contour and KLOP(FM)’s 34 dBu contour: -13.5 km

Discussion of results

The above analysis demonstrates that there will be overlap between the maximum permitted interfering contour and the maximum protected contour of the proposed station and KLOP(FM) station in Ocean Park, WA. It should be noted that the proposed 34du contour towards KLOP(FM) is within IC’s allotment 34dBu contour located on Saturna Island, BC. Consequently, the proposed CBC station should be acceptable to the FCC. In addition, the KLOP(FM) station in Ocean Park, WA, will create interference to the proposed CBC station as shown on map F-8242 in Appendix F, and the CBC will accept such potential interference.

F(50,50) means 50% of locations, 50% of the time. KLOP is presumed (by the US-Canada treaty) to provide service at any point where it provides at least 54dBu of signal at least half the time at at least half of locations. Using KLOP's authorized (increased) power, their service area extends 84km towards the CBC transmitter.

The new service (the CBC power increase) is presumed to cause interference to KLOP at any point where the CBC signal is stronger than 20dB below KLOP's signal, (i.e., 34dBu) at least 10% of the time. Using the new CBC power figures, this interfering signal extends 245km towards the KLOP transmitter.

The two transmitters would seem to be 65km too close.

However, the FCC has already accepted the assignment of 88.1 for a Class C station at Saturna Island, B.C., and I-C has determined the interference caused by the CBC power increase will be less than what would be caused by the use of the Saturna Island allotment, so they feel the FCC will approve it.

Looking in the other direction... KLOP will interfere with the CBC station. The CBC station will have a coverage radius of 97km in the direction of KLOP. KLOP will provide 34dBu -- enough to interfere with the CBC -- to a distance of 182km. The stations are 14km too close. The CBC agrees to accept the resulting interference. (indeed, most of it will happen in the U.S.)

 

[JakeMott]

I'm getting mixed reception of both signals in Renton. Thanks FCC for fewer listening options again.

 

[Dan Sys]

Thanks for the great deciphering job w9wi. I know who to ask now when it comes to technical questions in the future.