-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
KPLZ is #1!!!
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
R
RadioEatsItsYoung
Guest
SRP said:
:
well first, i think BROADcasting refers to casting a broad signal. If you want to get literal, "The original term 'broadcast' referred to the literal 'sowing of seeds' on farms by scattering them over a wide field". So, I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the programming offered by radio.and secondly, if you think that all 45 Seattle AM/FM stations are mass appeal you're crazy. Smooth Jazz mass appeal? No way. AAA mass appeal? No way.
I appreciate you trying to add something to the conversation, but you obviously failed.
RadioEatsItsYoung said:
Try closer to 63 stations within the rated market.
There is no such category as a "passion" format. Not sure if you were trying to be descriptive or actually claiming there was such a format category. Smooth Jazz is doing okay in some larger markets. If one can develop a reasonably sized loyal audience yet keep the costs of operation down, it's not a bad format for a large market group owner. SJ potentially fills in a demographic spread and holds up TSL pretty well, especially with at-work listening. That being said, it will never be a top 10 or even 20 in a 60+ station market.
R
RadioEatsItsYoung
Guest
TVradioguru said:
Wow...ok....I wasn't saying there is a "passion format". I was saying that there are such things as passion stations. Meaning, people are passionate about certain stations and not about others. Smooth Jazz and some other formats are so niche that they are passion stations. Listeners who listen to Smooth Jazz are hardcore P1's and they would claim to listen all day long. And in diary, that benefited them because they had hours and hours of imaginary TSL. That doesn't translate in PPM.
But thank you for clarifying that there isn't a passion format.
Not sure if you understand how PPM works because TSL absolutely wins. At a minimum, one has to be listening long enough to run through a decode cycle of a station for it to count. Smooth Jazz listening actually has quite good TSL, especially when those participating are working at a place where SJ is in the background (Medical or Dentist office as an example). The problem is it isn't mass appeal enough to have a high total sample. But those who do listen, usually leave it on for an extended period of time.
I get what you're saying that Smooth Jazz is a niche' format, but the statement that Smooth Jazz stations do not command high TSL is completely without merit.
I get what you're saying that Smooth Jazz is a niche' format, but the statement that Smooth Jazz stations do not command high TSL is completely without merit.
R
RadioEatsItsYoung
Guest
TVradioguru said:
Wow, you really don’t understand anything I’m saying. I know PPM pretty well, thanks.
OK, so let me try and make this easier for you to understand. I was saying that Smooth Jazz benefited from fake TSL. In diary, people would say they listened all day long when they really didn’t. So TSL has gone down tremendously for Smooth Jazz in PPM and that’s the only thing that can keep them afloat is TSL. Just look at KWJZ for example. With Adults 25-54 in the Winter 09 Diary, they had an 8:45 TSL. 8 HOURS AND 45 MINUTES!! That was the 4th highest in the market behind only the Spanish stations and kxxo. That gave them a .4 aqh rating. In the June PPM monthly however, their TSL was down to 2:45 which was 14th in the market and their new AQH is a .3.
Of course TSL helps stations win in PPM. Only an idiot would argue otherwise. The problem is, Smooth Jazz stations really DONT have good TSL. In diary, people just said they listened to the station all day long, but they really actually don't according to PPM! PPM, for the most part, has hurt TSL based stations, the Smooth Jazz format included.
Does that make sense now?
True. TSL based stations in the diary for the most part saw declining ratings in the PPM across the country.
Cume in PPM is dramatically higher which ironically makes Time Spent Listening a key factor in who wins and loses. In Diary eight hours of TSL was huge. In PPM 4 hours is huge. In the end the guesswork of the diary meant people voted for stations they liked, rather than what they really listened to. It turns out people listen to many more stations in a given day than they ever could remember and for much less time. In the diary 60% of your AQH rating came from a core listener, a P-1. In PPM it is closer to 80%. Keeping those who listen tuned in longer is the game. So PPM is some ways is designed to benefit stations that have listeners who are passionate about their format or talent.
In the end it is about creating moments on radio that keep people tuned in whether you are in a diary market North Carolina, or PPM Seattle or LA. The goal is the same, the measurement less forgiving to radio that doesn't compel core fans to stay tuned
Cume in PPM is dramatically higher which ironically makes Time Spent Listening a key factor in who wins and loses. In Diary eight hours of TSL was huge. In PPM 4 hours is huge. In the end the guesswork of the diary meant people voted for stations they liked, rather than what they really listened to. It turns out people listen to many more stations in a given day than they ever could remember and for much less time. In the diary 60% of your AQH rating came from a core listener, a P-1. In PPM it is closer to 80%. Keeping those who listen tuned in longer is the game. So PPM is some ways is designed to benefit stations that have listeners who are passionate about their format or talent.
In the end it is about creating moments on radio that keep people tuned in whether you are in a diary market North Carolina, or PPM Seattle or LA. The goal is the same, the measurement less forgiving to radio that doesn't compel core fans to stay tuned
This was posted after BJ called me out on a video blog on Monday and on the air on Tuesday: "BJ, You can call me out, call me names and discredit my opinions all you want. The point is you are listening. You've done a wonderful job so far at KISW...up until now...Listening to the 6'er...BJ, I love how you use numbers to prove your points. Here's my numbers...
With the new reporting card system in place, there's probably around 1,000 PPM meters in Seattle. That's a sample of 1,000 people to the overall population of 3,353,200 people. A thousand people are the voice for 3.35 million? Come on now BJ! You don't trust YOUR OWN time proven formula over what 1,000 people say? You claim at least 100,000 people listen to the show on a daily basis, How many of those people have the PPM Meter? Maybe 100 people? You know the people who have those meters usually posses those meters from anywhere from 9 months to 2 years?
The new reporting card system is bullshit and is completely flawed. You would rather trust flawed Data then the loyal voice of your fans?
Secondly, I think the sample of 6,800 REAL FANS on Your Facebook page is a more accurate representation of what the people want to hear, not a survey you paid for.
I'm sorry you have to use my past against me and attack me when you know I'm not listening. I'm relaying an honest opinion. I find it extremely entertaining that my posts upset you so much, must hit home pretty well, doesn't it?
I have supported this show since June 2005 where I created a Podcast for the program and the SSUC members, almost a full 2 years before Entercom saw a worth value in the recordings of the show. I have facilitated angles and contributed to your show, IE Dub's Ass Tattoo, Dane Cook, Double R's Roughest Rider Bit...Things that we're once sticking points to the shows presentation.
You guys have listened to me in the past and now...You've jettisoned my opinions on the wayside and threaten to ban me from this page?
Pretty sad. At least I live my life without having to pick on the little guy to justify doing something that damages the product you once had so much pride in, BJ... I feel sorry for you, Bro... "
BJ's Reply: "*****, Your opinion comes from a man who doesn't have a job in our biz. It's this simple, the ratings determine our success... end of story. Whether you like it or not, they are the final say, not you, not this Facebook page...they are the final say. It's illogical to ignore them, they are the only currency that matters... the only system that has value. If I ignore that system, I will eventually fail, and you won't have any show to listen to. So, please understand, it's not personal, it's what I believe has to be done.
You have three choices, listen, don't listen, or download the podcast. If you can't understand the logic of this, then we have no more to talk about."
I relpied: "I understand how the ratings work. I understand the logic. I just don't like it. I will not accept it. The changes you have made are wrong. Produce better content, don't do wholesale changes like adding 40+ year old music 2 or 3 times an hour. That's just stupid!
The damage has already been done.
The changes you've made to the show is personal to me. I have idolized you and the members of your show for years now and have used your show as an example on the 'how to' guide on producing better radio. Now, you've become another mediocre product that everyone else in the Country has the outline too.
I can hear the same thing in with most any radio show. You've discarded your unique image and presentation to put out some cookie-cutter content that doesn't flow with your audience. The survey data you have has some severe flaws.
I guess no one listeners opinion really matters anymore...So why try? I think I've learned everything I can from you and your show...but I'm
done...and personally, I hope the show falls flat on it's face with this format.
Secondly, you still don't have the right answers about my numbers on how the market is metered. You have to agree the way PPM is done is flawed nationwide. You also have to agree that PPM is killing radio shows all over the US that are talk radio based.
I posted the start of this thread later on in the day: "I'd also like to call on Friday but your phone screener is bias against me and will not let me on the air anyway."
BJ replied: "*****, until you can show respect for others on this page, you're not getting on anywhere. You of all people should know the realities of our job, but instead you hammer us for doing what must be done to keep this show on. You're just selfish & throwing a temper tantrum, because you lost your favorite toy. Frankly, that pisses me off."
My reply was: "Just let it be known that I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in your companies logic and direction of the program. You are the one who's making changes. When you fail, it will be all your fault. Not some a**hole poster of your minority Facebook page. Good luck in your future endeavors, BJ. You are going to need all the luck you can get.
I'm also surprised that one washed up, wanna-be, radio guy opinions effects you so much. Maybe you should schedule some more therapy sessions? I'm really sorry you feel this way instead on focusing on what can make this situation better. God forbid, someone's honest with you about how they feel about what YOU do.
Also, some of those posters attacked me first. Maybe you should go back and re-read some of those posts more clearly."
With the new reporting card system in place, there's probably around 1,000 PPM meters in Seattle. That's a sample of 1,000 people to the overall population of 3,353,200 people. A thousand people are the voice for 3.35 million? Come on now BJ! You don't trust YOUR OWN time proven formula over what 1,000 people say? You claim at least 100,000 people listen to the show on a daily basis, How many of those people have the PPM Meter? Maybe 100 people? You know the people who have those meters usually posses those meters from anywhere from 9 months to 2 years?
The new reporting card system is bullshit and is completely flawed. You would rather trust flawed Data then the loyal voice of your fans?
Secondly, I think the sample of 6,800 REAL FANS on Your Facebook page is a more accurate representation of what the people want to hear, not a survey you paid for.
I'm sorry you have to use my past against me and attack me when you know I'm not listening. I'm relaying an honest opinion. I find it extremely entertaining that my posts upset you so much, must hit home pretty well, doesn't it?
I have supported this show since June 2005 where I created a Podcast for the program and the SSUC members, almost a full 2 years before Entercom saw a worth value in the recordings of the show. I have facilitated angles and contributed to your show, IE Dub's Ass Tattoo, Dane Cook, Double R's Roughest Rider Bit...Things that we're once sticking points to the shows presentation.
You guys have listened to me in the past and now...You've jettisoned my opinions on the wayside and threaten to ban me from this page?
Pretty sad. At least I live my life without having to pick on the little guy to justify doing something that damages the product you once had so much pride in, BJ... I feel sorry for you, Bro... "
BJ's Reply: "*****, Your opinion comes from a man who doesn't have a job in our biz. It's this simple, the ratings determine our success... end of story. Whether you like it or not, they are the final say, not you, not this Facebook page...they are the final say. It's illogical to ignore them, they are the only currency that matters... the only system that has value. If I ignore that system, I will eventually fail, and you won't have any show to listen to. So, please understand, it's not personal, it's what I believe has to be done.
You have three choices, listen, don't listen, or download the podcast. If you can't understand the logic of this, then we have no more to talk about."
I relpied: "I understand how the ratings work. I understand the logic. I just don't like it. I will not accept it. The changes you have made are wrong. Produce better content, don't do wholesale changes like adding 40+ year old music 2 or 3 times an hour. That's just stupid!
The damage has already been done.
The changes you've made to the show is personal to me. I have idolized you and the members of your show for years now and have used your show as an example on the 'how to' guide on producing better radio. Now, you've become another mediocre product that everyone else in the Country has the outline too.
I can hear the same thing in with most any radio show. You've discarded your unique image and presentation to put out some cookie-cutter content that doesn't flow with your audience. The survey data you have has some severe flaws.
I guess no one listeners opinion really matters anymore...So why try? I think I've learned everything I can from you and your show...but I'm
done...and personally, I hope the show falls flat on it's face with this format.
Secondly, you still don't have the right answers about my numbers on how the market is metered. You have to agree the way PPM is done is flawed nationwide. You also have to agree that PPM is killing radio shows all over the US that are talk radio based.
I posted the start of this thread later on in the day: "I'd also like to call on Friday but your phone screener is bias against me and will not let me on the air anyway."
BJ replied: "*****, until you can show respect for others on this page, you're not getting on anywhere. You of all people should know the realities of our job, but instead you hammer us for doing what must be done to keep this show on. You're just selfish & throwing a temper tantrum, because you lost your favorite toy. Frankly, that pisses me off."
My reply was: "Just let it be known that I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in your companies logic and direction of the program. You are the one who's making changes. When you fail, it will be all your fault. Not some a**hole poster of your minority Facebook page. Good luck in your future endeavors, BJ. You are going to need all the luck you can get.
I'm also surprised that one washed up, wanna-be, radio guy opinions effects you so much. Maybe you should schedule some more therapy sessions? I'm really sorry you feel this way instead on focusing on what can make this situation better. God forbid, someone's honest with you about how they feel about what YOU do.
Also, some of those posters attacked me first. Maybe you should go back and re-read some of those posts more clearly."
Well that little note shattered the thread! You probably would have been better off just sending BJ an E-mail :
TVradioguru said:Well that little note shattered the thread! You probably would have been better off just sending BJ an E-mail :
No kidding. I was kinda enjoying the volleying between you and REIY - it was entertaining to see him/her getting so flustrated.
Bottom line: Good, bad or otherwise - PPM is here to stay, just like voicetracking and corporate radio. Adapt or get out of the business.
Wonder if the rant against BJ belonged on the KISW thread. Seems a bit out of place here unless BJ is headed to KPLZ. The argument between Guru and REIY actually was an interesting battle back and forth. Got me to read this site again. Other state's board seem a less vitriolic.
SRP said:
That's of course assuming those who regularly rail against radio on this site actually work in radio to begin with. Who knows, some could be driving a truck while others sit in their home out of the Seattle market smoking pot all day. Yet in all cases, they KNOW how the radio industry functions in Seattle and every other market too. Those of us who have many years in the business in multiple markets apparently know nothing.
I got a laugh out of the last out of REIYs last post. On one hand they agree that TSL wins in PPM, but claims that the local Seattle SJ station doesn't have very high TSL, so one can only conclude that all SJ stations don't have good TSL. I may be reaching myself, but could it be that the local SJ station just isn't doing something right when in fact, other SJ stations do quite well in TSL? This really goes back to the original discussion about the recent success of your local AC station, KPLZ. That being all AC stations were pronounced dead, may as well switch to country, active rock, whatever. Yet PPM comes around and wouldn't you know it, people are indeed listening! That same situation as in Seattle, is not the same in other markets with an AC station. So does one deduce that because Seattle has a strong AC station, AC is the way to go elsewhere?
- Status