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KPNW back to Country?

Speed Racer 1 said:
Yes, even more so. I've never met anyone with a PPM. I've asked lots of people and they've never known anyone to have them.
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If a market of 2,000,000 has about 1000 meters, how many random people would hour have to ask before finding one. And since they are told not to tell anyone about the meter, acknowledgement is very unlikely.
Speed Racer 1 said:
What kind of person wears one?
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A representative panel that mirrors the general population on over 20 stratification variables, from age and gender to income and education and area of residence.
Speed Racer 1 said:
How about we study that aspect of this. There is way too much drop off to get an accurate number.
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What is "drop off"? I have never heard that term except when applied to a steep decline in a lake or ocean bed.
Speed Racer 1 said:
And what about people listening on earbuds? It's everywhere now.
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No, over half of all listening is in cars. Most people do not wear earbuds in cars.
Speed Racer 1 said:
How does that work. It doesn't. It's a flawed system not much better than the diary system. The Big A was right, PPM was created for advertisers.
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And BigA is right: all ratings were created for advertisers, going back to the early 1930's. Just like tape measures were created for carpenters, ratings were needed by ad agencies and advertisers to measure the cost vs. reach of ad campaigns.

Ratings are a sales tool, not a programming device.
 
Speed Racer 1 said:
It is not a great or even good system period. No one can refute the earbud listening and it's not used everywhere. It's just okay. And Neilsen has zero competition, so they don't have to make it better. Why wouldn't you want better and more accurate numbers?
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You'd want the best possible because you want the Media Ratings Council accreditation.

Your degree in Quantitative Analysis and Statistics is from which university?
 
bobdavcav said:
The other question I have about PPM is if it's so much more accurate than the diary system, why hasn't it been expanded to more markets? I would think that there would be plans to expand the system to at least the top 100 if it worked better.
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As BigA said, it is about cost. Some of the markets between 51 and 100 don't even have continuous measurement and just have two books a year. The PPM is nearly double the cost of the diary survey, and in smaller markets there is not enough transactional buying by agencies and house agencies that use ratings to make a greater expense worthwhile.

And one problem with the PPM system is that it is not a random weekly sample. It requires a statistically sound sample, even in smaller markets and you start having trouble with that when you go below around 850 to 900 meters. So in market 99, the cost is going top just as much as in market 49, while there may be less than 25% of the agency business in the smaller market when compared to the larger one.

The PPM is not cost efficient in small markets. Even the diary system is being revised to use AI and OCR to read the diaries rather than having each one manually processed.
 
TheBigA said:
Who is the "you" you're asking about? Once again, Nielsen doesn't do these numbers for the public. They do them for the advertisers and paying subscribers. If you were one or the other, then you'd have a contact at Nielsen to make your demands. If a radio station has an issue with the numbers, they know who to contact, and can see the underlying data. For the most part, when the question about better numbers has been asked, it means the subscribers would have to pay more money. That's the tradeoff. Since you don't pay, you don't care.
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Why such an angry response because I am looking at the system? To personally attack my background? I thought you were better than that David. BTW, 20 years in the biz at a high level in several markets....and a college degree.
 
When it comes to radio ratings, there is no perfect way to get an accurate measurement. Save from finding a way to integrate technology into every new and existing radio to determine what every listener was listening to at any given time, it's impossible to get a perfect reading.
 
fordranger797 said:
Save from finding a way to integrate technology into every new and existing radio to determine what every listener was listening to at any given time, it's impossible to get a perfect reading.
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They can do that already (in fact that's how Sirius measures channel usage), but it doesn't give you demographics. It just tells you what the device is tuned to. Advertisers want demographics, so they need devices attached to people.
 
How are the ratings for Country music so far? I know KKWF 100.7 The Wolf is no longer 1st place in the latest Neilsens ratings.

https://ratings.****************/content/arb039
 
bobdavcav said:
Were Seattle and all other now PPM markets measured only four times a year prior to PPM's introduction?
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Yes, all the PPM markets had 4 books per year, with monthly rolling breakouts available to subscribers only. The rolling averages were not weighted and not published, but gave stations an idea of movement in between quarters.
When Arbitron began radio measurement in the late 60s, the top 8 markets at the time got 4 books per year, the remainder of the top 50-60 markets moved for 2x to 4x per years during the late 70s and early 80s.
 
While it’s still early, what this is showing is that the country cume is what it is, and in fact, decreased overall to the tune of a 60k decline. Will 3 twangers survive….time will tell.
 
RadioRon said:
While it’s still early, what this is showing is that the country cume is what it is, and in fact, decreased overall to the tune of a 60k decline. Will 3 twangers survive….time will tell.
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Remember, these numbers tend to statistically wobble or vary from month to month, as is expected in any sample.

Cume is not additive between stations, as most people in the PPM listen to 4 to 5 stations in a week on average. So those new country cumers of the new country stations may have been and may sill be listeners of KKWF.
 
RadioRon said:
While it’s still early, what this is showing is that the country cume is what it is, and in fact, decreased overall to the tune of a 60k decline. Will 3 twangers survive….time will tell.
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From the 6+ numbers, Lotus is about the same, while Hubbard has doubled their audience.

The approach Lotus is using is a different format from the other two. 90s Country isn't the same format as currents country.
 
What this book tells me is that it was a mistake for Hubbard to flip 98.9 to AAA in the first place, though I still think it's too early to see how the return to country will do. When the Bull went away the first time, the reaction was immediate, but that hasn't been the reverse. As for Hank's future, how long do such contracts last? I would think Lotus would have to honor the original contract they signed to run the format, but once that's up it's anyone's guess what 101.5 will do. If I were to make a somewhat educated guess, it's going to be about five years, and what's going to happen in five years is anyone's guess.
 
bobdavcav said:
What this book tells me is that it was a mistake for Hubbard to flip 98.9 to AAA in the first place,
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Duh.
bobdavcav said:
As for Hank's future, how long do such contracts last?
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Contract? Are you talking about talent contracts?
bobdavcav said:
I would think Lotus would have to honor the original contract they signed to run the format, but once that's up it's anyone's guess what 101.5 will do. If I were to make a somewhat educated guess, it's going to be about five years, and what's going to happen in five years is anyone's guess.
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Still don't understand what you mean by a contract. If sales meet expectations, then expect a longer tenure. If oldies country slogs along at under a 2 in Demo, then expect a change down the road.
 
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