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KRIS OLINGER DELETES HARTMANN IN DENVER

A

ABQTom

Guest
In a stunning and unanticipated move by KKZN-AM program
director KRIS OLINGER, Air America host THOM
HARTMANN has suddenly been dropped from the
lineup. Ed Schultz will be live, followed by
Randi Rhodes, and a new afternoon host who I've never heard of.
http://www.am760.net/main.html

If the afternoon host, Mario
Solio-Marich, has no former following in Denver,
he will do poorly, and KKZN ratings will plummett
after 4pm.

Why would they do this when Dr. Richard Florida's Bohemian index in
Denver and Boulder is so high. BOULDER'S SCORE
IS THE HIGHEST IN THE USA - 201 ! See this:

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/bestcities_sort/

My research shows that markets with a high
Bohemian index are the best markets for Thom
Hartmann (Seattle, Portland, Albuquerque, San
Francisco, L.A., Santa Fe). The Bohemian index is
the percentage of artists, designers, writers,
and other creative types.

Often, Hartmann is the ONLY talk host that
Bohemians listen to...they do not necessarily
like the abrasiveness of Ed Schultz and Randi
Rhodes.

I might mention other hosts that do well for
Bohemians: Bryan Styble, Mike Malloy, Laura Lee,
Jeff Rense, Peter B. Collins, and Bernie Ward. Sorry
to see Bryan's cancellation in Seattle, their score is also high.

Prediction: This is a bad move for Kris Olinger
for an all progressive station in a Bohemian
market, and KKZN will face rapidly declining
ratings.

It is more than readily apparent that KKZN needs
a new program director who understands
demographic and geographical variables that
affect the performance of individual progressive
hosts in differing markets!
 
And Kris is starting her new talent in the 4 o' clock hour in WINTER when KKZN power drops from 50,000 watts to 1,000 watts, probably around 515pm?

Ridiculous.

Sounds to me that they were waiting all winter to get this guy on...starting in February when they get another half hour of 50kW.
In March, daylight savings kicks in, and most of his show will be at 50kW.

But that's only through early November, but by then, due to poor management, do you think KKZN will still have the same format?

Goodness - a progressive station without *BOTH* Stephanie Miller *AND* Thom Hartmann?

They desperately need a new program director.

And FOUR hours of Jay Marvin? Way too long. They need at least an hour of Steph in the mornings.
 
The reason is numbers. His numbers have never been what Al's were. Also this makes it so the station is live all day long. Something I think the station has got a lot of complaints about. I went to Hartman's blog and of course many are blaming it on me. I do not and have never had control over what the station does. But of course in the typical non radio way everything is plot and Hartman's die hards have to pin it on someone. True, what he does is not my kind of radio. I have said over and over again if you look at the 25-54 adult numbers across the country AAR does not do very well. In fact they don't do well at all. PD's and OD's across the country are trying to make it work. Look at the lineup shuffle at KTLK. This is radio. This kind of thing happens all the time.
 
Hi Jay....you wrote:

"The reason is numbers. His numbers have never been what Al's were."

I would ask if Kris is promoting each and every host, with promos all day long, and live book signing appearances for Hartmann in Boulder? Is Hartmann and a link to his web site and books on your web site? Sounds like 760 has dropped the ball with station promotions, probably not just for Hartmann, but for everyone. Jay you've even said on radio-info that your numbers aren't that good.

I've listened to the 760 on-line stream. It's good imaging, better than most, but your announcer's promos are not intense enough to convince listeners to tune in each morning. And, Jay, to be competitive in a large market of several million, they should start you at 5am, and bring Steph on at 8am (9am in winter due to the signal, to give you more ratings). And, they should have you voice local commercials WITH the actual business owners THEMSELVES. Listen to Ronn Owens on KGO in San Francisco voicing commercials with KGO buyers. Ears perk up when they hear Ronn AND the owner.
Or, Peter B. Collins voicing his commercials with Veronque of the Organic Wine Co.

Your observation that Thom's numbers aren't as strong as Al's isn't consistent with other markets. 1090/Seattle, 620/Portland, have great Hartmann numbers, and he is actively promoted with book signings and Live appearances in both markets that are televised on station web sites....You continue....

"I have said over and over again if you look at the 25-54 adult numbers across the country AAR does not do very well."

Jay with all due respect you are making the same mistake as others are doing at the Albuquerque board right now. They say, as you do, that "the 25-54 air america numbers aren't doing well."

That's not how you assess talent for any given network, whether it be TRN, AAR, or ABC. Look at individual hosts, in different dayparts, and see how they are doing in different markets. Then, renew the contracts for the syndicated hosts with the best ratings. And, then drop the hosts that underperform. Why are Lionel, Richard Green, and Jon Elliott still hosting on Air America?
Finally, replace the others with new talent. Remember, there's a huge talent pool of cancelled liberal hosts out there, but nobody ever hires them. Three more stellar performers in liberal talk are available as of yesterday...let go from KIRO/Seattle...Carl Jeffers (African American, great choice to increase diversity of AAR, great sense of humor), David Goldstein (intellectual type, thought provoking), and Bryan Styble (conservative on some issues but a genuine social liberal, strong rapport with callers, veteran talent for 30 years).
 
OK, you can think what you want to think. I see very few people in radio posting on these boards and now I know why. There's no point. You will think what you want to think no matter how many facts you're given. Yes, Hartman had tons of promos on the station all day and night. I see the 25-54 across the country. To have good numbers in two markets is not a sign a format or a talk show host is working. Everyone who is inside radio knows the AAR story. But what good would it do to sit here and give you the facts over and over again. Let's take your example of Miller. We don't run her because of the time factor. If we did run her we'd have to run her 24 hours later. That is hard to make work on a talk station. Also Look at Miller's 25-54. She has a 1 share last time I looked in LA. That's no better or no worse than the rest of the format. A 1 share is not good when the other radio stations in your format are pulling 3s and 4s. In my 33 years in radio a 1 share 25-54 has never been considered good. I have only a 1.1 25-54 and I don't think that's good. I have never had that low of numbers in my life. Kris Olinger has a great track record and is one of the smartest people I know in radio. And I've worked for a lot of people. The trouble with people like yourself is you allow your political views to cloud the real facts of what's going on. You sit there streaming the station and making judgments without knowing or living this market or even being able to see any research information or for that matter the 25-54 or 35-64 breakouts. I notice Phil hasn't posted here in awhile. I can understand why. This is my last post on this board. Why? Because it's too much like work. And we now live in a world where fiction is truth and truth is fiction. Thanks for your time. You should and can think anyway you want. I respect that. It's your right. So use it.
 
Jay,

I don't know you. I have never heard your show. And with you on a progressive talk station and me on a conservative talker I doubt we agree politically. But I have enjoyed both your insight and the perspective your vast knowledge of the history of this business brings to the table. I honestly can say I have learned alot from your posts and it is sad to see you go. Good luck.
 
He assumes I'm not in radio without even asking, that's unfortunate. I am in radio, but like most people here, I don't want to disclose my affiliations.

Dale, like you, I am sorry to see Jay leave the board. Jay has great talents and insights into the business. Jay, Kris, others, and I disagree, but there are no right or wrong programming decisions in this business. And, we all come from different backgrounds. I come from a market where talk radio is HEAVILY promoted and marketed on every other media source, and it works beautifully. And, no, my posts are not politically motivated. I've said again and again how Air America won't sell in red markets, whereas liberal hosts like Schultz and Colmes will sell. That's not a political statement, it's a radio marketing statement. As for various liberal hosts getting just one share in L.A. or Denver, again I would suggest more active marketing strategies, live appearances, debates among the hosts, book signings with Hartmann, etc. Up in Seattle, that's what they do on AM 1090, and the station has had (we can't post numbers here) ratings of a few shares 6A-7P. Take a look at their web site, it's the most interactive progressive talk web site that I've seen.....

http://am1090seattle.com




jaymarvin said:
OK, you can think what you want to think. I see very few people in radio posting on these boards and now I know why. There's no point. You will think what you want to think no matter how many facts you're given. Yes, Hartman had tons of promos on the station all day and night. I see the 25-54 across the country. To have good numbers in two markets is not a sign a format or a talk show host is working. Everyone who is inside radio knows the AAR story. But what good would it do to sit here and give you the facts over and over again. Let's take your example of Miller. We don't run her because of the time factor. If we did run her we'd have to run her 24 hours later. That is hard to make work on a talk station. Also Look at Miller's 25-54. She has a 1 share last time I looked in LA. That's no better or no worse than the rest of the format. A 1 share is not good when the other radio stations in your format are pulling 3s and 4s. In my 33 years in radio a 1 share 25-54 has never been considered good. I have only a 1.1 25-54 and I don't think that's good. I have never had that low of numbers in my life. Kris Olinger has a great track record and is one of the smartest people I know in radio. And I've worked for a lot of people. The trouble with people like yourself is you allow your political views to cloud the real facts of what's going on. You sit there streaming the station and making judgments without knowing or living this market or even being able to see any research information or for that matter the 25-54 or 35-64 breakouts. I notice Phil hasn't posted here in awhile. I can understand why. This is my last post on this board. Why? Because it's too much like work. And we now live in a world where fiction is truth and truth is fiction. Thanks for your time. You should and can think anyway you want. I respect that. It's your right. So use it.
Click to expand...
 
ABQ Tom..please give up this pointless arguing. You're not going to sway anyone's logical thinking.
You;ve worn out the New Mexico board, and now here.
A one share in today's radio market no matter where, is exactly that..a one share.
No amount of remotes and promos will change that.

I do however, compliment you on your passion.
But as you have encountered on this board and Albuquerque board, you are not swaying any opinions.
And to go head-to-head with David is an exercise in futility. He's got the facts..you've got the passion.
Game over.
 
"ABQ Tom..please give up this pointless arguing. You're not going to sway anyone's logical thinking.
You;ve worn out the New Mexico board, and now here.
A one share in today's radio market no matter where, is exactly that..a one share.
No amount of remotes and promos will change that."


Many here will disagree with you about station promos. They can make a big difference. I can see why there are very few radio people who actually post on these boards, because of statements such as that. In Seattle, where 1090 aggressively promotes their station, Hartmann / Schultz have had up to 6 shares M25-54, with Randi and Stephanie up to 3 to 4 shares.

"I do however, compliment you on your passion.
But as you have encountered on this board and Albuquerque board, you are not swaying any opinions.
And to go head-to-head with David is an exercise in futility. He's got the facts..you've got the passion."

I did not argue with David Eduardo. If you read my posts, you'll see that I asked for an explanation of what he meant, and he explained it. However, I am an independent who trends liberal, so you, David, and I will never agree politically. I also have the numbers, but I don't quote Arbitron shares on this board because it's against the rules. I also don't quote people I know, for example Hartmann sent me three emails over the weekend with numbers but it's private info. You'll note above for Seattle, I wrote, "up to X number of shares..." On the New Mexico board, I never quoted shares, but I listed the web site where Clear Channel quotes them http://ccnewmexico.com Middays in Albuquerque for Hartmann / Schultz performed well in the spring book against Citadel's 770 KKOB.

And finally I am not arguing with anyone. I am, however, a radio guy first, with my political views SECOND. That's why I don't agree with these folks who say that "Democracy Now" and Rachel Maddow should be on Air America stations. Indeed, IF 1090 in Seattle wasn't doing massive promotions, and they also had low ratings share, then I WOULD AGREE with you that the format isn't working! 8)
 
Tom, if you're a radio guy you don't act like one. I see that you go over to Tom Hartman's forum and post a link to my comments about Tom and Air America. In my 33 years in this biz I have never run in to someone who shoots their mouth of as much as you do and doesn't know a thing about what he is talking about. You don't live in this market. You have the nerve to try and talk about marketing and promos? Who are you to say what we did or didn't do? Tom Hartman, like every other host, had promos on all the time. When he came to town here we promoted that and his books. Anyone who is in radio will tell you promo money has been cut back. Of course you're a radio guy and you don't know this? You can't even read an ARB 25-54 breakout. In fact I don't think you even know how to read one. If you did you wouldn't make such stupid statements. This is not a flame war. This me calling you out on your BS. Your political views get in the way of your programing views. If you had a radio station you'd run it into the ground. No wonder most people in radio never post here. What's the sense. By the way in the last book the rest of the station, including me, pulled a 1 to a 1.5 adults 25-54. Hartman pulled a .5! Do you think that might have something to do with it? And don't go giving anyone the idea because I don't think Tom does good radio that I had anything to do with his show bering droped here. I don't have that kind of power. It's only what I think and it doesn't make it right or wrong. If it did I'd be a PD somewhere.
 
jaymarvin said:
Tom, if you're a radio guy you don't act like one. I see that you go over to Tom Hartman's forum and post a link to my comments about Tom and Air America. In my 33 years in this biz I have never run in to someone who shoots their mouth of as much as you do and doesn't know a thing about what he is talking about. You don't live in this market. You have the nerve to try and talk about marketing and promos? Who are you to say what we did or didn't do? Tom Hartman, like every other host, had promos on all the time. When he came to town here we promoted that and his books. Anyone who is in radio will tell you promo money has been cut back. Of course you're a radio guy and you don't know this? You can't even read an ARB 25-54 breakout. In fact I don't think you even know how to read one. If you did you wouldn't make such stupid statements. This is not a flame war. This me calling you out on your BS. Your political views get in the way of your programing views. If you had a radio station you'd run it into the ground. No wonder most people in radio never post here. What's the sense. By the way in the last book the rest of the station, including me, pulled a 1 to a 1.5 adults 25-54. Hartman pulled a .5! Do you think that might have something to do with it? And don't go giving anyone the idea because I don't think Tom does good radio that I had anything to do with his show bering droped here. I don't have that kind of power. It's only what I think and it doesn't make it right or wrong. If it did I'd be a PD somewhere.
Click to expand...

Hi Jay,

Thom and I know each other, and he gave me more impressive numbers the other day.

These are posted in an ad in Talkers Magazine (not sure which edition).

And, I have 25-54 progressive ratings for several markets.

Sorry to hear that something isn't working at KKZN.

But I still wish you and Kris Olinger the best with your new schedule.

I'm not in your market, however, Hartmann has acheived huge ratings in Portland and Seattle, stations that are aggressively promoted and marketed.

Anyway, your characterization of me is appropriate here, because there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to programming philosophy.

Can we agree to disagree?

If we were face to face, would you treat me this way?
 
Yes. I would say the same thing to you. If you're in radio I'd like to know where. And you and Tom are friends? That explains a lot right there. The trouble with this whole thing is I have nothing against Tom. I don't even really know him. Here's what I do know: you keep going back to the same markets time and time again to prove your point. I'm using the breakouts I see not only here, but all over the country. Now I notice people posting on my station's forum that somehow I had something to do with the station changing the line up? Hartman's forum has a link back to this one on some comments I made about Tom and AAR. Now how did that happen? Once more if you are in radio than you know this kind of thing goes on all the time. No one at KKZN ever asked me what I thought. I walked in one day and found out. I also resent you trying to tell me or anyone else on this forum about promos or promotions on the part of my radio station when you don't even live here. So the station took Hartman off. Happens all the time. It's part of radio. You should know that. But you seem not too. Where in radio do you work? How long have you been in radio? Have you ever gotten fired? You posted on Hartman's forum I resigned from here. Really? How does that work? I'm not getting paid to post here. Yes, we can agree to disagree, but unlike you I put all my cards on the table. Can you say the same?
 
I am asking the board editors for a little indulgence since I posted this on the other thread regarding Hartmann. I just want to make sure Tom and Jay see this.

Jay, I'm glad you haven't left. :)

In reading the posts here and on the increase in Thom Hartmann's ratings, I felt the need to give the perspective from Columbus.

Franklin County, which is an urban blue county, is completely surrounded by rural red counties. The local talk show which replaced the third hour of Randi Rhodes is now getting calls not only from outside the Outerbelt (I-270 around Columbus) but from the rural counties surrounding us. Add to that the fact that Stephanie Miller and Ed Schultz have already been to Columbus, and the decision to focus the schedule around these two hosts and Bill Press was a no-brainer for General Manager Gary Richards.

Even the die-hard Thom Hartmann fans are fully aware of Big Eddie's wide appeal. No pun intended.

And despite the issues with getting dedicated satellite feeds, listeners are finding the station.

I'm not dismissing the numbers for Thom Hartmann...but as Lionel has probably found out after leaving WOR, Jones Radio Networks is becoming the dominant player in progressive talk. Ed Schultz has the biggest numbers, Stephanie Miller outnumbers Lionel as far as affiliates, and Bill Press is now the lone national progressive talker in morning drive.

And, unlike Air America, advertisers never put Jones' talkers on a blacklist.

Two other things I will mention here:

I have heard Jay substitute for Big Eddie. I'm surprised Jones didn't consider him to go national opposite Randi Rhodes.

As for Mario Solis-Marich...I heard him with Elayne Boosler when she substituted for Steph. He's good. I hope he's also picked up to go national.

Personally, I would love to see Jones make an offer to buy up Air America from Mark Green. It may be the only way for progressive talk to actually start making inroads and attract a larger and more diverse audience.
 
Sean Gilbow said:
I am asking the board editors for a little indulgence since I posted this on the other thread regarding Hartmann. I just want to make sure Tom and Jay see this.
Click to expand...

Sean...

Who, me (Tom), or Thom Hartmann (different spelling)? Both T(h)oms are aware of this forum and recent comments. This is an opinion board, for sharing different opinions, and not a board for trashing people. It doesn't matter what KKZN or WVKO (Colombus) decides to do with their programming, although people have complained on several message boards on the new programming in L.A. and Denver. I don't have any issues with any liberal hosts, including Jay Marvin. As for yr comment on surveys and ratings of hosts, Randi Rhodes is listed as #1 at this survey:

http://talkingradio.blogspot.com
 
For what it's worth, I glad that KKZN is attempting local hosts instead of syndication. Schultz and Miller are great and all, but when it comes to syndication too many liberal talk stations are as bad as most of the Salem and CC owned stations in the 100+ markets.
 
Hartmann returns

There is an annoucement on the KKZN website that Thom Hartmann is returning on Monday and airing from 7 to 10PM nightly.
 
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