KRKO/KKXA To Test All Digital AM Broadcasting

[fordranger797]

There was a comical article in the Everett Post today; this was the opening line:
"If you’re hearing silence on your radio this weekend, it may be time to purchase a new receiver."

OR do one of the following
1. Find a new radio station to listen to that doesn't require an investment in an HD radio.
2. Find a radio station on the internet with the same programming.
3. Dust off the ole' CD's.

 

[bossbill]

The past is a great place to visit but a terrible place to live

 

[Kelly A]

Amen Bill!

 

[notalent]

The tests will be happening this weekend, Friday and Saturday after 9pm, Sunday during the daytime.

I'm curious how analog tuners will hear silence if they are not broadcasting an analog signal... wouldn't an analog tuner hear the digital carriers?

 

[Kelly A]

KJR and KVI were both stereo and running oldies at the time. I had an AM stereo tuner when I lived in Tsawassen and could easily hear both in Stereo...I was sad that KKFX and KJET were mono.

To clarify, KVI never ran AM stereo. The KVI transmitter, notch filters at the antenna, nor audio chain wouldn't support stereo. KJR was stereo for a few years until 1989, when I took it out.

 

[davideduardo]

I still think that AM stereo could be a way to keep AM alive in the future if they could come up with a plan. AM stereo really CAN compete with FM radio. Well, maybe not small stations that don't have the license and power to stay noise free, but bigger stations for sure.

The real problem, with or without stereo, is that most AM stations do not cover their whole markets.

Of the roughly 1800 AM stations in the top 100 markets in the US, only about 170 have a signal that covers 80% or more of the market day and night.

Add stereo to most AMs and you just have a gold plated turd.

Then there is the little issue that it will take years to get a different AM stereo system in a significant number of cars and radios to make any difference.

Millenials already think of their smartphone as their "radio" so OTA broadcasting is increasingly irrelevant as time moves on.

 

[Carmine5]

From what I was told, KRKO and KXA are going to have to do make-goods on their advertising during this all digital test.

As for the times of the test, it will be a combination of day and night. Here is the copy for their promotion:

"Saturday from 9:30 AM to 4:30 PM and Sunday night from 9 PM to 1 AM, Fox Sports 1380 will be the ONLY AM radio station in North America broadcasting a 100% digital signal. If you have a radio with HD Radio Technology, you’ll hear our regular broadcast with crystal clear, FM-like stereo, our coverage area will get larger, but we need you to tell us where you lose the signal (under bridges, powerlines, in your home, near buildings). If you have an old analog radio and try to tune in during the test times on Saturday and Sunday, you’ll hear silence, but we’ll still be streaming online. HD Radio Technology users who provide feedback on our signal during the tests will be entered for a chance to win a $50 gas card, movie passes, or a $100 restaurant gift certificate. Learn more at Fox Sports 13-80 dot com and look for the orange and black HD Radio logo, that’s Fox Sports 13-80 dot com."

 

[Grounded Grid]

Amen Bill!

Glad you found your way back, Kelly!

 

[fordranger797]

The real problem, with or without stereo, is that most AM stations do not cover their whole markets.

Of the roughly 1800 AM stations in the top 100 markets in the US, only about 170 have a signal that covers 80% or more of the market day and night.

Add stereo to most AMs and you just have a gold plated turd.

Then there is the little issue that it will take years to get a different AM stereo system in a significant number of cars and radios to make any difference.

Millenials already think of their smartphone as their "radio" so OTA broadcasting is increasingly irrelevant as time moves on.

That is indeed true. I've said it before, but I think getting rid of some of the AM stations out there would do a lot of good for the band in general. Too many stations all sandwiched between 530 and 1700... it's just messy.

 

[fordranger797]

The past is a great place to visit but a terrible place to live

Very true, but sometimes the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" also holds truth. As it stands right now, AM is a working system; if AM were to go digital only it may not work at all. Plus, it costs a pretty penny to engineer AM radio with all of the field testing and transmission programming that needs to be done, may as well not mess with it.

 

[mimo]

To clarify, KVI never ran AM stereo. The KVI transmitter, notch filters at the antenna, nor audio chain wouldn't support stereo. KJR was stereo for a few years until 1989, when I took it out.

I had an AM stereo tuner in 1987 who's pilot light lit when I tuned to KVI every time and did get stereo separation that would argue with you if it could talk.

 

[boombox4]

That is indeed true. I've said it before, but I think getting rid of some of the AM stations out there would do a lot of good for the band in general. Too many stations all sandwiched between 530 and 1700... it's just messy.

How do you figure that? The daytime band in the Seattle area isn't even filled. At night it's filled, but most radio listening is during the day.

 

[fordranger797]

How do you figure that? The daytime band in the Seattle area isn't even filled. At night it's filled, but most radio listening is during the day.

While much of the interference you hear on the AM dial is caused my local electrical appliances and weak signals, a major portion comes from all of the various co and adjacent channels out there. I think if we could just get rid of a few, the AM dial would be more user friendly and listenable. Take the local channels allotments for example; to an extent they are not usable at night due to how many stations are crammed in.

 

[Kelly A]

I had an AM stereo tuner in 1987 who's pilot light lit when I tuned to KVI every time and did get stereo separation that would argue with you if it could talk.

If listening outside the market, your tuner was probably being fooled from noise or heterodyne into thinking there was a 25hz pilot tone on KVI causing it to go into stereo receive mode. The little bit of seemingly L-R information decoded by the tuner made it sound like there was some sort of stereo. Really it was just some delay between the left and right channels when being demodulated. I was the engineer at KVI in the mid 80's and can assure you, KVI never ran AM stereo. I've had my 1998 Jeep factory radio switch to AM stereo receive mode on stations that I know don't run stereo. Stations in the Seattle market that were AM stereo at one time or another included: KING 1090 (Kahn ISB system for about two years) KMPS 1300, KOMO 1000, KJR 950. There may have been some others outside the market that I don't recall, but those were the major players.

 

[xmtrland]

Kelly, Great to hear your input again. 1090 latter went C-quam with stereo and so did 770when they moved to Vashon. The old stereo generators are still there and the one at 1090 is still in line with the Ampfet but the 25hz pilot is turned off. I found some of the original technical notes on the Kahn test at 1090 very interesting reading.

1090 runs IBOC now and I'm told it out performs the other IBOC stations in the area. They have a Nautel NX50, basically a computer power supply on steroids. The KOMO and KVI plants on Vashon still look GREAT! Tim Moore has done an excellent job in keeping both looking awesome. The old RCA is still at KOMO and sometimes I visit the site when I know Tim is there, lots off good reading in the old file cabinets. 1090 actually has all the local transmitter logs from 1946 to today and a stack of 45's from the mid 80's, some 78rpm disks and a few Frank Sinatra LP sets. KIRO has a whole year of program logs from 1945 stored over there. Which is very interesting reading, full of stuff that would make you cringe today. Lets just say there were PSA's that were not to friendly to Japanese. And of course one of the old PA tubes out of the water cooled Western Electric transmitter, I got to see on the air when my dad worked part time out there starting in 1974, is out there too.

 

[mimo]

The receiver never had that happen on other stations. There was a definite difference between left and right...as in hearing sounds that were supposed to be on the left channel on the left speaker and sounds that were supposed to be on the right on the right speaker. The radio had a "delay" in going into stereo..it waited for 5 seconds and then the light would go on, and the sound would go stereo. It was a TM 150 that Radio Shack sold. The was solid in the day in the middle of summer. My house was super quiet and had absolutely no electrical or any kind of interference, even the tv we had was so far away from the radio that it was not a factor in the least. If there was no stereo, I had no idea what would cause the radio to get fooled like that. There were no other stations on 570, and the next stereo station up (that was in C-QUAM) That I could tune in was CJVI 900. If there was a slight bit of interference, the radio would instantly switch to Mono on all but the very strongest of stations.

 

[multiplex]

Each station will conduct three tests--one seven-hour daytime test and two nighttime tests lasting for four hours each.
KKXA-1520 conducts the first test Thursday night from 9 PM to 1 AM.
No tests will begin on Friday night.
The first daytime test comes from KRKO-1380, Saturday from 9:30 AM to 4:30 PM.
Then KKXA-1520 tests again on Saturday night from 9 PM to 1 AM.
KKXA's daytime test is on Sunday from 9:30 AM to 4:30 PM.
The final two tests are on KRKO-1380--Sunday and Monday nights from 9 PM to 1 AM.

 

[Kelly A]

The receiver never had that happen on other stations. There was a definite difference between left and right...as in hearing sounds that were supposed to be on the left channel on the left speaker and sounds that were supposed to be on the right on the right speaker.

(Sigh) Now I remember why I stopped posting anything here for years..

Back to the original topic: I applaud Andy for stepping up and allowing his stations to be the test mules for AM full-digital testing. Several years ago, I followed some tests done by George Bisso (RIP) along with Harris of digital-only testing using KIXI. In spite of the fact that the Ibquity system was in its infancy at the time, digital-only mode proved to be pretty robust and significantly reduced the sideband interference that DX'ers get so worked up about with the analog/ digital hybrid mode. As with others, I look forward to seeing the test results.

Evolution or extinction.

 

[fordranger797]

I heard a rumor that HD radio was never intended to improve the AM dial. Rather, iBiquity only developed the AM technology to fulfill some sort of requirement. I'm curious to find out if it could be true.

Looking at the AM signals in the area that utilize HD signals, KRKO and KKXA are likely the most listened to stations of the lot. I don't know of too many people excited for 1090 and 850 in HD.

 

[multiplex]

The testing schedules are a bit unclear. I got the one I posted above from the web link at KKXA's website.
Some articles only mention the daytime tests (the ones that'll succeed over a wider area), and the KKXA promo only mentions tests on Saturday night and Sunday.
Discrepancies abound!
So caveat emptor (sorry, I don't know how to say "listener" in Latin, and shortly we'll know if the web listing is accurate.