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KROQ's decline, Latino's rise?

C

creativegenius

 
Quote taken from RnR...

"The spring story continues, as KROQ/Los Angeles pulls in its lowest Arbitron showing in close to five years" This aint no wobble babble.

What is surprising is that Clear Channel hasn't really counter programmed any of it's stations against Jack or Infinity for that matter to get it's male numbers up or at least take a risk and convert a station like STAR into a Indie Hybrid format to counter KROQ and lean alittle more female.

Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.

Well, we are well past those marks and their spot loads and quality remain as they were, high and high quality. Given the crap ads that Groove and KDL had day in and day out, this format has at least in this department been a winner. Seems more and more that the format itself would do more harm on a broader signal given the recent Book results in San Diego showing the ne0-alt up book and veteran alt rocker 91x at it's near lowest level in almost 20 years. It is apparent to me that this market could be shaken by moving Indie's format to a signal like STAR at that would push veteran KROQ down to the low level 2's 91x is seeing. I sight San Diego as a good example because Alt wise, the market tastes and actions of the all important male demo 18-34 lifestyles are very similiar.

As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds very ethnic, that concerns me.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by creativegenius on 07/20/05 07:29 PM.</FONT></P>
 
>  
> Quote taken from RnR...
>
> "The spring story continues, as KROQ/Los Angeles pulls in
> its lowest Arbitron showing
> in close to five years" This aint no wobble babble.
>
> What is surprising is that Clear Channel hasn't really
> counter programmed any of it's stations against Jack or
> Infinity for that matter to get it's male numbers up or at
> least take a risk and convert a station like STAR into a
> Indie Hybrid format to counter KROQ and lean alittle more
> female.

Clear Channel is NEVER going to dump one of their female friendly FM's. They own females from teens to where the advertisers don't care anymore.
The only thing you'll see from Star in the fall is more variety - female friendly oldies they've been playing on their "Totally Whatever Weekends".
>
> Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all
> impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with
> NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board
> said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.

But unlike when CCU controlled sales, the spots are a lot of trade. That isn't worth a dime of profit in my pocket.

>
> Well, we are well past those marks and their spot loads and
> quality remain as they were, high and high quality. Given
> the crap ads that Groove and KDL had day in and day out,
> this format has at least in this department been a winner.

I wouldn't call a station that hovers just above and below a 1 share 12+ a winner. It's not the dominant station or anywhere near so in its target demo either.

> Seems more and more that the format itself would do more
> harm on a broader signal given the recent Book results in
> San Diego showing the ne0-alt up book and veteran alt rocker
> 91x at it's near lowest level in almost 20 years. It is
> apparent to me that this market could be shaken by moving
> Indie's format to a signal like STAR at that would push
> veteran KROQ down to the low level 2's 91x is seeing.

Indie would be a failure on a full market signal. 91X is down because CCU is selling it (well, putting it in "friendly" hands) and isn't putting a dime into it. KROQ is the king of all alternative stations nationwide and will remain so. Alternative music is going through some growing pains right now so between that and Jack, you can chalk their losses up to those reasons.

I
> sight San Diego as a good example because Alt wise, the
> market tastes and actions of the all important male demo
> 18-34 lifestyles are very similiar.

Not in the least. San Diego is quite different than Los Angeles. Let me repeat that, QUITE DIFFERENT.

>
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles.

But the emperor has no clothes.
Latino won't ever kill of Power but it can sure do some damage. Hopefully, Emmis will regain those damages in court.

SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>

Clear Channel tags all their hurban (Mega) stations "Latino & Proud" so what's the difference? It is the core ethnicity of these stations and the format.
 
Do you really know what a National Spot is?

First it's probably $10 a Spot, that's good Money isn't it though?. Stations in larger Markets clear Network Inventory for Pennies on the Dollar. As Glenn said, it's either a Trade, or as I have just informed you, Network Spots that can help pay for the Electric Bill, and the Arrowhead Dispenser. I'm sure Indie's Street Team hasn't sold a single National Account, sorry!



> Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all
> impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with
> NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board
> said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.
 
>
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet.

The biggest initial impact, paralleling other markets, is against CHR... KIIS in this case. Latino appears to have hit them significantly in 12-24 in just 3 weeks.

> Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends??

Yes. The name is good. It identifies a group membership.

> Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books.

Actually, it is Kalle, which mirrors a contemporary way of substituting a K for a C in messaging and communication in 12-34 demos.

> Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>

That is its intent. The Clear Channel Mega`s are "Latino and Proud" which also is very poitive in Mexican based markets.
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

Gotta agree with that. Indie's penetration is way below any media buyer's cutoff line.

- Doc

> First it's probably $10 a Spot, that's good Money isn't it
> though?. Stations in larger Markets clear Network Inventory
> for Pennies on the Dollar. As Glenn said, it's either a
> Trade, or as I have just informed you, Network Spots that
> can help pay for the Electric Bill, and the Arrowhead
> Dispenser. I'm sure Indie's Street Team hasn't sold a single
> National Account, sorry!
 
Re: Indie demos

What about demos? I would assume Indie reaches a pretty affluent, targeted demo -- and if an advertiser was looking for that targeted buy (white male, 25-54, $75K plus) it might not be a bad L.A. buy.
 
Re: Indie demos

> What about demos? I would assume Indie reaches a pretty
> affluent, targeted demo -- and if an advertiser was looking
> for that targeted buy (white male, 25-54, $75K plus) it
> might not be a bad L.A. buy.

Without running the socieoeconomic part, Indie is out of the top 10 in 25-54 males, but it is the strongest demo it has. KROQ has more male female balance, and beats Indie considerably in both men and women.

Most advertisers going into LA would not want to exclude ethnic listeners in a market that is 60% ethnic. The biggest selling Lexus dealer sells over 60% of the new cars to Hispanics.

he fact that Indie does not cover mmost of the market would turn off most accounts who want to make sure all their retail outlets or stores or locations get equal ad benefit.
 
> >  
> > Quote taken from RnR...
> >
> > "The spring story continues, as KROQ/Los Angeles pulls in
> > its lowest Arbitron
> showing
> > in close to five years" This aint no wobble babble.
> >
> > What is surprising is that Clear Channel hasn't really
> > counter programmed any of it's stations against Jack or
> > Infinity for that matter to get it's male numbers up or at
>
> > least take a risk and convert a station like STAR into a
> > Indie Hybrid format to counter KROQ and lean alittle more
> > female.
>
> Clear Channel is NEVER going to dump one of their female
> friendly FM's. They own females from teens to where the
> advertisers don't care anymore.
> The only thing you'll see from Star in the fall is more
> variety - female friendly oldies they've been playing on
> their "Totally Whatever Weekends".

Looking at the ratings - their weekends have been sliding dramatically. I cannot remember exactly how many of them they did each month - but in the 25-54 cell (theirs) - they dropped from a mid 3 range in April to a low 2 range in May to the mid 1's by June ... Initially, Jack didn't seem to affect Star as much - but as the book went on - it began to make more of an impact.





> >
> > Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all
> > impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with
> > NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board
>
> > said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.
>
> But unlike when CCU controlled sales, the spots are a lot of
> trade. That isn't worth a dime of profit in my pocket.
>
> >
> > Well, we are well past those marks and their spot loads
> and
> > quality remain as they were, high and high quality. Given
>
> > the crap ads that Groove and KDL had day in and day out,
> > this format has at least in this department been a winner.
>
>
> I wouldn't call a station that hovers just above and below a
> 1 share 12+ a winner. It's not the dominant station or
> anywhere near so in its target demo either.
>

Again, you cannot compare a station that covers one-third of the market to others that cover the full market. That's what bothers me ... To compare KDLD/KDLE to KROQ in any way shape or form is moronic...

They still have the ability to carve out a niche and they seem to be doing so well. They are up four consecutive books in the 25-54 cell (nearly doubling from where they were in the summer to this spring - and about a 50% cume jump in that particular cell as well.

For a fringe signal - I think people should be applauding them for what they've accomplished. For the signal they have, these are very respectable numbers.










> > Seems more and more that the format itself would do more
> > harm on a broader signal given the recent Book results in
> > San Diego showing the ne0-alt up book and veteran alt
> rocker
> > 91x at it's near lowest level in almost 20 years. It is
> > apparent to me that this market could be shaken by moving
> > Indie's format to a signal like STAR at that would push
> > veteran KROQ down to the low level 2's 91x is seeing.
>
> Indie would be a failure on a full market signal. 91X is
> down because CCU is selling it (well, putting it in
> "friendly" hands) and isn't putting a dime into it. KROQ is
> the king of all alternative stations nationwide and will
> remain so. Alternative music is going through some growing
> pains right now so between that and Jack, you can chalk
> their losses up to those reasons.
>
> I
> > sight San Diego as a good example because Alt wise, the
> > market tastes and actions of the all important male demo
> > 18-34 lifestyles are very similiar.
>
> Not in the least. San Diego is quite different than Los
> Angeles. Let me repeat that, QUITE DIFFERENT.
>
> >
> > As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off
> POWER
> > just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
>
> > moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to
> their
> > friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> > factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> > STREET king of Los Angeles.
>
> But the emperor has no clothes.
> Latino won't ever kill of Power but it can sure do some
> damage. Hopefully, Emmis will regain those damages in court.
>
>
> SBS failed at the moniker, and
> > in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> > moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming
> it's
> > new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> > winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and
> sounds
> > very ethnic, that concerns me.
> >
>
> Clear Channel tags all their hurban (Mega) stations "Latino
> & Proud" so what's the difference? It is the core ethnicity
> of these stations and the format.
>
 
>
> They still have the ability to carve out a niche and they
> seem to be doing so well. They are up four consecutive books
> in the 25-54 cell (nearly doubling from where they were in
> the summer to this spring - and about a 50% cume jump in
> that particular cell as well.

June to June, Indie is up 25-54 about 35%. They had two very high side months in a row, April and May, which has never happened before. June was right in the 25-54 range, just a tick over a 1.
>
> For a fringe signal - I think people should be applauding
> them for what they've accomplished. For the signal they
> have, these are very respectable numbers.

It may well be that those signals can do no better. However, I don't think a music station that is not ethnic can make it on a .7 to 1.0 12+ share in LA.
 
> >
> > They still have the ability to carve out a niche and they
> > seem to be doing so well. They are up four consecutive
> books
> > in the 25-54 cell (nearly doubling from where they were in
>
> > the summer to this spring - and about a 50% cume jump in
> > that particular cell as well.
>
> June to June, Indie is up 25-54 about 35%. They had two very
> high side months in a row, April and May, which has never
> happened before. June was right in the 25-54 range, just a
> tick over a 1.
> >
> > For a fringe signal - I think people should be applauding
> > them for what they've accomplished. For the signal they
> > have, these are very respectable numbers.
>
> It may well be that those signals can do no better. However,
> I don't think a music station that is not ethnic can make it
> on a .7 to 1.0 12+ share in LA.


David, I agree with you on that. A 0.7 to a 1.0 is a challenge - but that is probably about the best those signals will do - and that is my point...

And considering we have a number of full sticks with heritage calls pulling under a 2.0 (which for me is a bigger issue) - I don't think Indie hovering around a 1.0 share is all that bad.


>
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

The reason Indie is doing well with National buyers is that Indie is the BUYERS favorite station.

The buyers are uppper income folks and they think it's the best thing to happen to LA radio in years. They themselves feel passionately about the station as listeners, and also want their clients associated with "cutting edge" and the utimate "hip" station.

June was their best sales month ever and that's with Entravision keeping all the marbles, not just taking a fee from CC. They are doing as good as a station can do on that signal and they have on air properties that are poised for syndication.









> Gotta agree with that. Indie's penetration is way below any
> media buyer's cutoff line.
>
> - Doc
>
> > First it's probably $10 a Spot, that's good Money isn't it
>
> > though?. Stations in larger Markets clear Network
> Inventory
> > for Pennies on the Dollar. As Glenn said, it's either a
> > Trade, or as I have just informed you, Network Spots that
> > can help pay for the Electric Bill, and the Arrowhead
> > Dispenser. I'm sure Indie's Street Team hasn't sold a
> single
> > National Account, sorry!
>
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

> The reason Indie is doing well with National buyers is that
> Indie is the BUYERS favorite station.
>
> The buyers are uppper income folks and they think it's the
> best thing to happen to LA radio in years. They themselves
> feel passionately about the station as listeners, and also
> want their clients associated with "cutting edge" and the
> utimate "hip" station.

You didn't read a damned thing in this thread on how media buyers work, did you?

THE.
BUYERS.
MAKE.
DECISIONS.
BASED.
ON.
STATION.
RATINGS.
IN.
TARGET.
DEMO.
AND.
MARKET.
SIGNAL.
COVERAGE.
NOT.
BASED.
ON.
THEIR.
PERSONAL.
FEELINGS.

Glenn, David, ANYBODY ... explain this to Freddy ... again ...
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

> The reason Indie is doing well with National buyers is that
> Indie is the BUYERS favorite station.

Most national buyers are not in LA. The biggest buying center is New York. All they know about Indie are its call letters. National business is nearly 100% transactionl business which means that all that is looked at is ratings data vs. price.
>
> The buyers are uppper income folks and they think it's the
> best thing to happen to LA radio in years.

Agency buyers are mostly entry level employees, who simply do computer work to select stations based on a media plan made at much higheer levels. They have to fill so many GRPs at a target CPP and they do this by computer.

> They themselves
> feel passionately about the station as listeners, and also
> want their clients associated with "cutting edge" and the
> utimate "hip" station.

Media buyers do not make emotional decisions, and most of them are not in LA anyway. Media uyers follow an evaluation formula based on costs vs. ratings. Period.
>
> June was their best sales month ever and that's with
> Entravision keeping all the marbles, not just taking a fee
> from CC. They are doing as good as a station can do on that
> signal and they have on air properties that are poised for
> syndication.

If they are doing 400 a month I would be surprised. That would place billing at under 5 a year. Which may be good for that signal, but is coing to produce only minimum BCF and a less than 3% ROI. Horrible, horrible, horrible. They will sell it as soon as they can.
 
> > The only thing you'll see from Star in the fall is more
> > variety - female friendly oldies they've been playing on
> > their "Totally Whatever Weekends".
>
> Looking at the ratings - their weekends have been sliding
> dramatically. I cannot remember exactly how many of them
> they did each month - but in the 25-54 cell (theirs) - they
> dropped from a mid 3 range in April to a low 2 range in May
> to the mid 1's by June ... Initially, Jack didn't seem to
> affect Star as much - but as the book went on - it began to
> make more of an impact.

Star did not have any "Totally Whatever Weekends" in June. They had them in May. Memorial Day weekend was just a "Totally Whatever 80's Weekend". They are quite happy with what the research shows. You'll hear that reflected in their music shortly as they prepare for the fall. And Star and KBIG listeners have been sampling Jack.
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

Hey sensitive one,

The post you are saying I didnt pay attention to before I posted was in RESPONSE to my post so how could I have read it?




>
> You didn't read a damned thing in this thread on how media
> buyers work, did you?
>
> THE.
> BUYERS.
> MAKE.
> DECISIONS.
> BASED.
> ON.
> STATION.
> RATINGS.
> IN.
> TARGET.
> DEMO.
> AND.
> MARKET.
> SIGNAL.
> COVERAGE.
> NOT.
> BASED.
> ON.
> THEIR.
> PERSONAL.
> FEELINGS.
>
> Glenn, David, ANYBODY ... explain this to Freddy ... again
> ...
>
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

> Hey sensitive one,
>
> The post you are saying I didnt pay attention to before I
> posted was in RESPONSE to my post so how could I have read
> it?

Hey, oversensitive one,

It's been explained many times before, that's how. I'm afraid you suffer from selective memory; facts about Indie that don't fit your concept of what the station is in your mind get conveniently discarded.

I'd do a search and make a list of posts, but everyone else here already knows those posts exist ...
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Do you really know what a National Spot is?

I think you're working on the assumption that media buyers are locally based and operating the same as they did in the 70's. As Mr. Fagen said, "Those days are gone forever... over a long time ago." (Oh yeah.)

- Doc

> The reason Indie is doing well with National buyers is that
> Indie is the BUYERS favorite station.
>
> The buyers are uppper income folks and they think it's the
> best thing to happen to LA radio in years. They themselves
> feel passionately about the station as listeners, and also
> want their clients associated with "cutting edge" and the
> utimate "hip" station.
>
> June was their best sales month ever and that's with
> Entravision keeping all the marbles, not just taking a fee
> from CC. They are doing as good as a station can do on that
> signal and they have on air properties that are poised for
> syndication.
>
 
Re: Indie... pros and cons.

> Hey sensitive one,
>
> The post you are saying I didnt pay attention to before I
> posted was in RESPONSE to my post so how could I have read
> it?
>

Please chill a moment.

No one is disputing the merits that Indie does have, which include>

1. Innovative programming for this market with lots of new artists and cuts and a different on air approach.
2. More creative freedom for the airstaff.
3. A new influence and launching pad for music.
4. Competition for KROQ which some perceived as being too conservative.

There are also some defects:

1. Insurmountable bad signal.
2. Inability to get ratings that will make it a good return on a $70 million investment, no matter how good the programming is.
3. Negative impact on KROQ... KROQ may have over-reacted, making their sound less familiar and attractive to the core, hurting the genre overall.
4. The eventual financial failure will discourage other stations in other markets where the signal issues and such are not as clearly known.
5. Lack of ratings growth beyond initial impact.

That is about it. Without emotion... it is not about whether we like or not the music. It is about the business model and its industry impact.
 
As the saying goes, "que es la problema"? Call it Salsa, Latino, Musica De La Raza or whatever, musicians from Santana to Los Lonely Boys (si, yo se) continue to mainstream. Lots of urbanized white kids have discovered the power of music with a kick and a soul, too.

Also, as the number of blancos decline and the number of Latinos increases, you'll see KROQ decline even more. Numeros, solamente.
 
> Also, as the number of blancos decline and the number of
> Latinos increases, you'll see KROQ decline even more.
> Numeros, solamente.

Your presumption and mildly racist choice of words is inaccurate.

A large percentage of Hispanics are white.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
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