KRRV Overtaking 97.9 Tyler, TX Translator

[cotton belt]

97.9 K250AJ is a licensed Tyler translator in service of the neighboring Standards/Oldies formatted "QX-FM" 100.3 KZQX near Longview, licensed to Tatum, Texas. On two different occasions this last week, co-channel Country station "K double R V" from Alexandria, Louisiana has been getting out over the air, here in Tyler, on the 97.9 translator. This has occurred in the early to mid morning hours on both occasions. My question is how does this happen? KZQX and KRRV both operate on 100.3 MHz. Is the KRRV signal overriding KZQX at the KZQX transmission site, causing K250AJ to repeat KRRV instead of its licensed primary KZQX? The same does not occur with the other somewhat nearby 100.3 co-channel KJKK "Jack-FM" in Dallas, during tropospheric conditions. 97.9 continues to rebroadcast KZQX while KJKK comes in like a local in the heart of downtown Tyler (on the square, for any fellow East Texans who may reading), although if KJKK is that clear in Tyler, the translator is typically receiving interference of its own from Dallas co-channel KBFB "97.9 The Beat". My QTH is too far west of the main "QX-FM" 100.3 signal to typically hear it over the air, rendering it impossible for me to confirm that KRRV is airing on KZQX on these past two occasions.

While I have heard licensed stations in their own COL get overtaken by an out of town signal on the same frequency many times in my life, this particular scenario is somewhat of a phenomenon to me.

 

[Kent]

My question is how does this happen? KZQX and KRRV both operate on 100.3 MHz. Is the KRRV signal overriding KZQX at the KZQX transmission site, causing K250AJ to repeat KRRV instead of its licensed primary KZQX? The same does not occur with the other somewhat nearby 100.3 co-channel KJKK "Jack-FM" in Dallas, during tropospheric conditions. 97.9 continues to rebroadcast KZQX while KJKK comes in like a local in the heart of downtown Tyler (on the square, for any fellow East Texans who may reading), although if KJKK is that clear in Tyler, the translator is typically receiving interference of its own from Dallas co-channel KBFB "97.9 The Beat". My QTH is too far west of the main "QX-FM" 100.3 signal to typically hear it over the air, rendering it impossible for me to confirm that KRRV is airing on KZQX on these past two occasions.

What is most likely happening is that the translator receives KZQX over-the-air, and it is picking KRRV up over KZQX. I occasionally get distant stations over a K-Love repeater where I live because the actual K-Love station is somewhat of a rimshot. The translator picks up a co-channel distant station.

I'm not an engineer, but I've been told you can directionalize your reception at the translator site in much the same way as the FCC inspectors can figure out where a pirate station originates. With KRRV being in roughly the same direction as KZQX from 97.9 and KJKK being the opposite, I'm guessing that's what's going on.

 

[cotton belt]

What is most likely happening is that the translator receives KZQX over-the-air, and it is picking KRRV up over KZQX. I occasionally get distant stations over a K-Love repeater where I live because the actual K-Love station is somewhat of a rimshot. The translator picks up a co-channel distant station.

I'm not an engineer, but I've been told you can directionalize your reception at the translator site in much the same way as the FCC inspectors can figure out where a pirate station originates. With KRRV being in roughly the same direction as KZQX from 97.9 and KJKK being the opposite, I'm guessing that's what's going on.

Kent, thank you for your reply. I am still unclear as to how K250AJ could possibly pick up KRRV over the air, however, not KJKK. There are mornings where you would think you've woken up in Dallas, with most all of the FM's in full HD quality. KJKK included. In one of these situations, wouldn't it, too, be picked up over the air at the translator's tower site in Tyler, and broadcasted over 97.9? I have been in East Texas for many years, and do not recall the translator ever previously having this happen.

The translator's signal already takes a regular beating from KBFB, mostly in the mornings. Country music coming from the translator itself is a whole new ballgame for me. Quite obviously, I am no engineer, either.

 

[Chuck]

K250AJ receives its signal "Direct Off Air" as required by the FCC for this kind of translator. (The FCC rules for translators are about as convoluted as southern liquor laws.) There is a highly directional and high gain receiving antenna at the translator site, which points due east toward the 100.3 originating station. Unfortunately, that is the same direction as the Louisiana station. The translator's receiver is programmed to shut of K250AJ if it loses its receiving signal;. The problem is if the 100.3 Tatum signal goes away, the Louisiana station can come bombing in, especially this time of year, and especially in the morning due to tropospheric ducting.

To further complicate things, in the last two weeks, there were two occasions when the KZQX primary signal was not present. The first was when the tower took a direct lightning strike, severely damaging the on air transmitter and a lot of other equipment. The station is currently running on our back up transmitter while the primary transmitter has been shipped off to the factory for a rebuild. The second outage occurred a few days ago, when a power surge took out the main circuit breaker on our back up generator's transfer switch panel. Our emergency generator switched on as it should, but with that circuit breaker tripped, no voltage was present at the transmitter, so no signal. Both of these occurrences were in the very early hours of the morning. Perhaps that explains what you observed.

 

[Chuck]

Kent, thank you for your reply. I am still unclear as to how K250AJ could possibly pick up KRRV over the air, however, not KJKK. There are mornings where you would think you've woken up in Dallas, with most all of the FM's in full HD quality. KJKK included. In one of these situations, wouldn't it, too, be picked up over the air at the translator's tower site in Tyler, and broadcasted over 97.9? I have been in East Texas for many years, and do not recall the translator ever previously having this happen.

The translator's signal already takes a regular beating from KBFB, mostly in the mornings. Country music coming from the translator itself is a whole new ballgame for me. Quite obviously, I am no engineer, either.

The reason it doesn't pick up the Dallas 100.3 station is because the translators receive antenna is a Log Periodic antenna that is more or less dead towards the rear. The way it is mounted on the tower also contributes to that. It was custom built by Katrine-Scala specifically for this installation.

If you are on the west side of Tyler, it is a miracle you can pick up 97.9 especially in the morning when Dallas stations come in like locals. I believe KBFB is 99,000 watts at around 1800 feet. The translator is 165 watts at a little under 200 feet above ground. It is on the east side of Tyler. Who do you think wins when reception conditions are strange?

 

[cotton belt]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, Chuck. Having the knowledge of these intricate details in relation to the translator's set up, you must be none other than the owner, Charles Conrad. First, it is my pleasure to communicate directly with you. Second, the work you have done with the museum over in Kilgore is very impressive. I had the pleasure to view several sets of pictures documenting the progress, several years ago. The KBTV/WFAA telecruiser is, by far, my favorite piece. I wish there were more operators like yourself, who value from where we have come and have such a vibrant passion to preserve some of the memories.

Getting back to topic, there were no miracles, sir. KBFB is the primary cause of interference to K250AJ at my QTH, which is more northwest than west of Tyler. Heck, it is the primary interference to the translator all over the county. I am roughly halfway between Toll 49 and Mount Sylvan, going towards Van, if you are familiar with the layout of Smith County. When the Metroplex stations meander our way down I-20, KBFB is one of the first to show up on the dial. This was different. This was the translator "going rouge", if you will. The translator was "winning", as you put it, although it was broadcasting KRRV instead of KZQX. Conditions were typical for Tyler, on both occasions. My wife is a loyal listener of yours, and called me to gripe about it. This is how I was made aware of it happening.

What I had mentioned to Kent was that I was surprised to hear country music on the translator, instead of either QX-FM or the often interfering "Beat of DFW". Given the detailed explanation of how the signal is received, and the directional aspect of the antenna, I see how this is a plausibility. BTW, this wasn't at home where I was hearing KRRV on your translator, this was from the CBS 19 parking lot! The signal from K250AJ was, obviously, in the 70dBu range. Each occurrence was in the mid to late morning, no later than 10:30am.

 

[Chuck]

If you live in Northwest Tyler. I'm surprised you can pick up the 97.9 translator at all. If you were in the CBS 19 parking lot and we were overtaken by the Louisiana station, it may have been one of the times the primary 100.3 signal was off the air. I don't remember the exact dates off hand, but your mid-morning description would be about right. The day we were hit by lightning, I believe it was about 12:30 when I got us back on at full power using our stand by transmitter. It was a long day....

 

[cotton belt]

K250AJ actually does quite well out here. I'm sure it helps that my immediate surrounding is a wide open, 210 acre pasture full of heifers and horses. Certainly no skyscrapers or multipath issues out here. About the tallest structure we have around is the steeple on top of the Mt. Sylvan U.M.C.. In the house, in the car, or most anywhere out on the property, the translator performs pretty well on most days.

I haven't heard KRRV on the translator since. Sounds like we happened upon it at just the right time. Those storms were indeed vicious. We lost a sweet gum tree and 12+ hours worth of electricity.