Krth 101 personality changes - weekends purged?

[michael hagerty]

Didn't you leave for a few months last year and returned? So what's your point?

Yes, I did. November 12, 2013.

Guys, enjoy. I'm done. Life is too short to spend trying to explain to grown men why it's a bad idea to stick their fingers into light sockets.

My sabbatical didn't consist of moving to the New York board and misquoting posts from this one.

Nor did I go on other sites and slam you, as you did me on the XM Fan site last December:

Oldies76: Radio Discussions has shut down effective 12/4/13!! Wonder where Mr. Hagerty and David Eduardo will end up.It was a constant battle against those two……I think we made our points known. Good riddance.

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[michael hagerty]

I haven't listened to that tape for many years. It's somewhere in one of my dozens of boxes of airchecks. I had forgotten about the Dolly Parton song being on there. Yep, the tape was made in the 1980s. And, speaking of the '80s.....here is a letter that appears on LARadio.com today. When I complain about KRTH playing such a large number of songs four to six times a day, some of the "radio professionals" insist that the average listener doesn't have KRTH on for enough time each day to be aware of the repetition. Well.....

"On Tuesday around 2 pm I was running errands and listening to K-Earth. The station plays Summer of '69 by Bryan Adams and Super Freak by Rick James. Back out in my car at 6 pm, what do they play, yup - Summer of '69 and Super Freak.....The station is supposedly a 'Classic Hits' station. More like 'Classic '80s Repetition'.....I'll be listening to 100.3 The Sound in my car and other stations on the web." --Greg Wood, West Hills

Two songs played at 2 pm and played again four hours later. And KRTH has lost another listener. There ya go!

You left out the last sentence in Greg's letter, Steve:

"Long live the days of AM radio with KFI, KHJ, KTNQ, and KRLA when they played music.”

Those, of course, were the days that the same seven songs each played three times in four hours on those stations.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I haven't listened to that tape for many years. It's somewhere in one of my dozens of boxes of airchecks. I had forgotten about the Dolly Parton song being on there. Yep, the tape was made in the 1980s. And, speaking of the '80s.....here is a letter that appears on LARadio.com today. When I complain about KRTH playing such a large number of songs four to six times a day, some of the "radio professionals" insist that the average listener doesn't have KRTH on for enough time each day to be aware of the repetition. Well.....

"On Tuesday around 2 pm I was running errands and listening to K-Earth. The station plays Summer of '69 by Bryan Adams and Super Freak by Rick James. Back out in my car at 6 pm, what do they play, yup - Summer of '69 and Super Freak.....The station is supposedly a 'Classic Hits' station. More like 'Classic '80s Repetition'.....I'll be listening to 100.3 The Sound in my car and other stations on the web." --Greg Wood, West Hills

Two songs played at 2 pm and played again four hours later. And KRTH has lost another listener. There ya go!

Of course his letter doesn't count because he is not an average listener, and he wrote it to Don, who doesn't run an average website, and since the likelihood of him ever getting a people meter is nil, he won't affect the, you guessed it, average ratings. In short he doesn't count, because nothing about him is average. We all know KRTH is programmed to the average listener who only lives an average life, and when it comes to song rotations, doesn't ever notice due to their below-average attention spans.

 

[davideduardo]

And neither do you, to the eyes and ears of radio and music fans. Negativity is what you are great at.

Actually I do contribute. As does KM, Mr Hagerty, Channel Flipper, BigA, MadMan, SuperRadioFan and others. No, I don't always agree with all of them... right, Mr Flipper?... but their dialog is based in reality and not some nether world of fantasy and imagination.

Among the frequent posters to the LA board there must be several hundred years of actual radio experience. When those of that group tell you that your ideas are seriously defective and based on just your own limited and rather sui generis tastes and perspectives, you should listen.

You are a sucker for the Impossible Dream.

 

[davideduardo]

Anything you say. Too bad your world of reality is behind a computer 24/7.

In the last 20 years I flew over 4,000,000 work related miles to be in several dozen markets, on the street, in testing facilities, at stations, at ratings companies and at seminars and conferences. I was probably face to face in research projects with over 100 thousand people... in many cases as the interviewer and moderator.

I only detail all this to show that, once again, you jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts and make false, demeaning statements that further your agenda... an agenda that, if implemented, would destroy any real radio station.

You are the rootkit of radio forums.

I don't care what numbers you bring up, KRTH is going downhill. It's presentation and programming methods are left to be desired.

I am sure that if you were to take over a WalMart you would similarly fill it with only merchandise that you liked, even if shoppers would have nothing to do with it. You would explain that the cheap and common merchandise was making WalMart go downhill, even if sales and profits were up.

Give it a break?? Contribute nothing??? Too bad.

Actually, I must beg forgiveness for saying you contribute nothing. You really contribute less than nothing.

 

[michael hagerty]

Of course his letter doesn't count because he is not an average listener, and he wrote it to Don, who doesn't run an average website, and since the likelihood of him ever getting a people meter is nil, he won't affect the, you guessed it, average ratings. In short he doesn't count, because nothing about him is average. We all know KRTH is programmed to the average listener who only lives an average life, and when it comes to song rotations, doesn't ever notice due to their below-average attention spans.

If you are suggesting that someone who lives an above-average life would either spend more time listening to KRTH or obsess over how long...exactly...it had been since they last heard each individual song, then we differ on the concept of "life".

See the list of activities I gave Steve (twice) for what an "average" life entails. An above-average life would have more, not less, on that list...and would also involve a broader range of tastes and interests, meaning more stations and music sources to split their time with, thus reducing time spent with any one station and lowering the likelihood of both real and perceived repetition.

 

[oldies76]

Among the frequent posters to the LA board there must be several hundred years of actual radio experience.

And I have seven years of them, and I contribute "less than nothing".....Once again......anything you say.

 

[oldies76]

In the I am sure that if you were to take over a Wal Mart you would similarly fill it with only merchandise that you liked, even if shoppers would have nothing to do with it. You would explain that the cheap and common merchandise was making WalMart go downhill, even if sales and profits were up.

And what has Wal-Mart done to thousands of mom and pop stores around the country, and their livelihoods since the 1990's?

Same thing mega, big city radio stations have done to the smaller ones. You fail to see the other side, as usual.

 

[oldies76]

I only detail all this to show that, once again, you jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts and make false, demeaning statements that further your agenda... an agenda that, if implemented, would destroy any real radio station.

You are the rootkit of radio forums.

And you telling me that my posts contribute "less than nothing" are demeaning??

Destroy any radio station?? Many small markets already implement my ideas to some degree. Where have you been? Behind a computer 24/7.

 

[oldies76]

You are the rootkit of radio forums.

Instead of once again, insulting classic hits radio fans, such as myself, try answering a question I left you under the Colorado board which you have ignored for seven days.

Even if we do disagree on some issues, I occasionally will ask for some responses on certain topics, which gives some credit to your knowledge on radio topics.

You're welcome.

 

[TheBigA]

And what has Wal-Mart done to thousands of mom and pop stores around the country, and their livelihoods since the 1990's?

Same thing mega, big city radio stations have done to the smaller ones. You fail to see the other side, as usual.

People have a choice. They don't always do the right thing. But in the case of radio, they choose big city stations that play the hits over smaller ones that don't. Your argument isn't with the radio stations, but with the people who don't share your taste in music. If other people were more like you, radio stations would program more to you. But you're in the minority.

 

[davideduardo]

Destroy any radio station?? Many small markets already implement my ideas to some degree.

They don't do that by choice. If you can't afford research, and don't understand how to emulate nearby larger market stations insofar as playlists are concerned, you will program based on inaccurate sources such as old charts and books. Since those stations have relatively little direct competition, the succeed... moderately. They would serve clients and listeners much better if they had the resources to find what listeners really wanted... and what they did not want.

 

[davideduardo]

And what has Wal-Mart done to thousands of mom and pop stores around the country, and their livelihoods since the 1990's?

The old retail model is obsolete. Poor selection, high prices, inconsistent service. It began to be replaced by Woolco and K-Mart in the early 70's and was joined by WalMart and all the other big box stores. Today, the small merchants are even more challenged by on-line sellers, who beat the pans off little local shops in almost every respect.

Who benefits? The consumer.

Same thing mega, big city radio stations have done to the smaller ones. You fail to see the other side, as usual.

Big city stations don't compete with little town stations unless the "little town" is adjacent to the big city. Stations can't increase coverage (except via streams) the way retailers open branches. But in the cases where the listener can get a farther away station and chooses it over the local station, it's probably because it is a better station... fewer bad songs, better jocks, tighter production, fewer corny local spots voiced by the advertiser.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I am looking at the title of this thread.

Krth 101 personality changes - weekends purged?

And once again, certain posters have turned it into a discussion of KRTH's music policies and programming.

Those same posters now wonder why the professionals here have no tolerance left for them.

I suggest they go look in the mirror for the answer.

 

[oldies76]

Since those stations have relatively little direct competition, the succeed... moderately. They would serve clients and listeners much better if they had the resources to find what listeners really wanted... and what they did not want.

And the listeners of those small stations don't have to put up with the hype and nonsense bigger stations provide.

Chatter, long spot breaks and 400 song repetitive playlists and.......chatter.

Listeners of the smaller stations, some myself and others referenced you over time, are aiming at the older crowd who wants their music and not the hype. Why spend the money on resources??? Just play the dang music! Use the books and charts for guidance and that's it.
They certainly can save that money and pay their employees a heck of a lot more than they do today.

All those small town programmers have to do, is look at the playlists of large cities and incorporate that with the other songs they already play and you've got yourself a great mix of songs to play. That's what makes them unique and special which audiences like.

That's the problem, you refuse to look at the OTHER side of the spectrum. I realize life is great making $$$, but it can be done the other way as well, if implemented correctly. Something KRTH and others refuse to do.

And what I meant about KRTH going downhill, it's the programming methods and presentation of music, not the station as a whole. And doing it the other way will not destroy radio stations as you keep claiming. You tend to exaggerate.

Remember, when you programmed classic hits radio stations, it was decades ago. It's almost 2015, listeners expect changes and new things, not the same ole from your time.

 

[LKellerIII]

The old retail model is obsolete. Poor selection, high prices, inconsistent service. It began to be replaced by Woolco and K-Mart in the early 70's and was joined by WalMart and all the other big box stores. Today, the small merchants are even more challenged by on-line sellers, who beat the pans off little local shops in almost every respect.

Who benefits? The consumer.


.

Right. Walmart is criticized primarily for paying their employees poorly, and not providing health insurance for many. They are the target (no pun intended) because they are America's largest employer. But if you think those "Mom & Pop" stores have historically paid people better, you're kidding yourself. And those small local stores cannot even begin to afford health insurance for their employees. The retail sector have always paid people low wages.

The real problem is that so many manufacturing jobs have gone overseas, so a much larger perentage of Americans, including those without higher education or marketable skills, are now forced into retail jobs to survie.

 

[TheBigA]

Listeners of the smaller stations, some myself and others referenced you over time,

Once again, if you have a local radio station that does what you want, why do you feel this need to criticize a successful station in a market where you no longer live?

Why do you want to force your personal music taste on people who are obviously very happy with what they hear? It makes no sense to me. Enjoy what you have.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

They don't do that by choice. If you can't afford research, and don't understand how to emulate nearby larger market stations insofar as playlists are concerned, you will program based on inaccurate sources such as old charts and books. Since those stations have relatively little direct competition, the succeed... moderately. They would serve clients and listeners much better if they had the resources to find what listeners really wanted... and what they did not want.

Why should the smaller stations pay for the research? Big market stations like KRTH have done the work for them. There is no patent on playing "Hotel California" four times a day, "Brown-Eyed Girl" three times a day and "Brick House" twice a day, and then rotate them all by 18 hours each so the listeners won't even notice. What they have essentially done is given the results of the research away for free. The research must be spot on because the ratings say so, right?

The more relevant question is if the formula is so successful (and I have never argued that beating "Hotel California" like a dead horse is not successful - clearly it is THE winning strategy) why don't the smaller stations simply copy the KRTHs of the world? How hard can it be to listen to three days of KRTH (that is way more than enough) and then go back to your station in Smallville USA and start taking records out of the playlist?

 

[TheBigA]

How hard can it be to listen to three days of KRTH (that is way more than enough) and then go back to your station in Smallville USA and start taking records out of the playlist?

I find that smaller programmers don't listen to out of market stations, and really don't pay attention to posted playlists or any resources. They're focused on keeping the station on the air, making sure shifts are covered, spots are being done and aired, and local promotions are being carried out. And in addition to all that, they probably have a 5 hour air shift. That's a 24/7 job. The music is pretty much secondary.

Meanwhile at a station like KRTH or WCBS, they have separate jobs for PD and Music Director. The PD usually doesn't have an airshift, and he has access to staff who handle some of the other details like promotions. So more time to concentrate on the music.

 

[davideduardo]

The more relevant question is if the formula is so successful why don't the smaller stations simply copy the KRTHs of the world? How hard can it be to listen to three days of KRTH (that is way more than enough) and then go back to your station in Smallville USA and start taking records out of the playlist?

I think Big A's response is right on. It's not perceived as a priority.

But it's a good question with more than one answer. Here's my take on it.

I believe many smaller market owners and programmers believe that using the Billboard and other books is "good enough" as they have all the songs that were hits, right?

At some point in every programmer's or manager's career they find out that they don't know what the listener wants and that it is necessary to find out. It's a hard transition, speaking for my own experience. So in the minds of many, they "know what the listener wants" without ever asking.

So if you know what the listener wants and have a bunch of chart books, why monitor out of market stations? After all, West Lugnut is different from those big cities...

There are cases of a station taking another market's list and copying it, with no regard for the different demographics, ethnicities and competitive array between markets... and then they wonder why they fail.

But there are lots of medium market programmers, who can no longer afford research, who look at the combined lists of nearby and comparable markets, make some local adjustment based on competitors, and do a good job.