KRTH 2013 Labor Day Countdown

[Thomps2525]

KRTH's top ten from 1983---thirty years ago---was, in order, Light My Fire, Stairway To Heaven, Hey Jude, Yesterday, Satisfaction, Let It Be, Peggy Sue, Bridge Over Troubled Water, American Pie and Jailhouse Rock. Six of those songs were in the 1982 top ten. Eight of those songs were in the 1981 top ten. The top ten doesn't change much from year to year...but we can't conclude that listeners haven't liked any songs from the 1990s or later. KRTH just won't play those songs, regardless of how many votes they get. I'm hoping this year's countdown will be honest and fair and accurate. I wonder what each year's top ten would have looked like if KRTH had included votes for any song from any decade instead of including only the same ol' songs they play every day. And I wonder how many people have never voted for obscure or low-charting songs because they think---and rightly so---that KRTH won't play them.

 

[davideduardo]

And I wonder how many people have never voted for obscure or low-charting songs because they think---and rightly so---that KRTH won't play them.

Just to see how it worked, I voted for my three favorite songs. The system accepted them, and I absolutely guarantee you that nobody else will vote for them.

However, as Michael has said, people who vote in a KRTH poll will generally vote for songs that are close to what KRTH plays. And the ones that KRTH does not play are likely not to get many votes among the KRTH core.

 

[Thomps2525]

Then we need to encourage all the casual KRTH listeners, those who are not part of "the core," to not only vote but to vote for songs that are not on KRTH's regular playlist.

In 1981 WABC in New York compiled a listener-voted Top 200. The list includes Elvis, Sinatra, Streisand, Manilow, Christopher Cross, Air Supply, the Knack and the DeFranco Family---way different than KRTH's boring and predictable list.

http://www.musicradio77.com/Top200.html

 

[michael hagerty]

The top ten doesn't change much from year to year...but we can't conclude that listeners haven't liked any songs from the 1990s or later. KRTH just won't play those songs, regardless of how many votes they get. I'm hoping this year's countdown will be honest and fair and accurate. I wonder what each year's top ten would have looked like if KRTH had included votes for any song from any decade instead of including only the same ol' songs they play every day. And I wonder how many people have never voted for obscure or low-charting songs because they think---and rightly so---that KRTH won't play them.

You make a huge assumption there, Steve. And one not supported by any evidence.

Again: If you ask 20,000 KRTH listeners their three favorite records for the purpose of a KRTH countdown, odds are they're going to self-edit and pick songs they hear on KRTH. Remember, the key phrase, the one I keep coming back to, is "how people use radio". If KOST was doing the countdown, these same listeners wouldn't nominate "Satisfaction".

On the other hand, if there are enough votes for "Smooth" or the Selena track, they'll make the countdown. I'm sure Rick Thomas would love to be able to move toward newer music in the countdown.

Seriously: How many listeners who actively seek out a hit music station will have "obscure or low-charting songs" among their top 3 all-time favorites?

And do we need to discuss how a listener poll from 3,000 miles away 32 years ago from a station that had fallen so far in the four years previous that it had a year left to live as a music station has zero relevance to what KRTH in Los Angeles plays or should play today?

 

[oldies76]

Then we need to encourage all the casual KRTH listeners, those who are not part of "the core," to not only vote but to vote for songs that are not on KRTH's regular playlist.

In 1981 WABC in New York compiled a listener-voted Top 200. The list includes Elvis, Sinatra, Streisand, Manilow, Christopher Cross, Air Supply, the Knack and the DeFranco Family---way different than KRTH's boring and predictable list.

http://www.musicradio77.com/Top200.html

Wow, what a list! If only we can get those who voted in 1981 to vote this year, even if it's 3000 miles away! ;D

I didn't see "Brown Eyed Girl" on that list. And look at #48, far ahead of #120. And we thought people were sick of that song, even in 1977.

 

[oldies76]

Seriously: How many listeners who actively seek out a hit music station will have "obscure or low-charting songs" among their top 3 all-time favorites?

But KRTH's question to their listeners is, name your favorite 3 songs of all time. It does not ask, name your favorite three songs of all time as heard on K-Earth 101. Sure many of the songs chosen will be KRTH spins, but many will also be personal favorites that aren't played, they have to be Mr. Hagerty.

BTW, I wasn't accusing Mr. Thomas of changing the countdown. I said, it's a possibility that it could happen, since it's happened in the past, based on identical countdowns aired in subsequent years in the past during Coffey's or Phillips time as PD. I'm just skeptical of these countdowns when listeners choose the songs and whether they are really being counted, based on the sound KRTH is really looking for.

If "You Light Up My Life" or any song of that nature managed to receive enough votes and qualified to position in the Top 500, would KRTH really play it? That's what it boils down to.

 

[michael hagerty]

Then we need to encourage all the casual KRTH listeners, those who are not part of "the core," to not only vote but to vote for songs that are not on KRTH's regular playlist.

In 1981 WABC in New York compiled a listener-voted Top 200. The list includes Elvis, Sinatra, Streisand, Manilow, Christopher Cross, Air Supply, the Knack and the DeFranco Family---way different than KRTH's boring and predictable list.

http://www.musicradio77.com/Top200.html

Wow, what a list! If only we can get those who voted in 1981 to vote this year, even if it's 3000 miles away! ;D

I didn't see "Brown Eyed Girl" on that list. And look at #48, far ahead of #120. And we thought people were sick of that song, even in 1977.

If all of them were still alive and you asked them to give you their 3 favorite songs now, you'd get a very different list. 82 of that 200 were five years old or newer. This is what I talked about with the KOLO countdown. A chunk of that was driven by what was in fashion at the time and current events (Lennon's death, Sinatra's comeback). People who got married and had "You Light Up My Life" sung at their wedding were still relative newlyweds. Motown oldies were nowhere until "The Big Chill" soundtrack a year or two later.

Even five years later, 1986, the same people would have given you a very different list.

 

[michael hagerty]

Seriously: How many listeners who actively seek out a hit music station will have "obscure or low-charting songs" among their top 3 all-time favorites?

But KRTH's question to their listeners is, name your favorite 3 songs of all time. It does not ask, name your favorite three songs of all time as heard on K-Earth 101. Sure many of the songs chosen will be KRTH spins, but many will also be personal favorites that aren't played, they have to be Mr. Hagerty.

Right, but as I said, these are people who listen to KRTH and other stations for specific moods and feelings. If KROQ was doing the countdown, they wouldn't nominate "Happy Together", just as they're not likely to enter "Smells Like Teen Spirit" for the KRTH countdown.

And of the songs that aren't on the KRTH playlist that are nominated, it'll be a lack of consensus that dooms them. Because while a chunk of people are going to have "Hotel California" in their top three, the number that will have "Desperado" will be a lot smaller.

20,000 people voting for three songs each fills 500 slots fast...and they're all going to be songs that get a lot of votes.

 

[oldies76]

Mr. Hagerty, does KRTH actually play "You Light Up My Life" if it received enough votes to make the top 500? (Let's just assume it did..)

 

[michael hagerty]

And before someone says "Whaddya mean? WABC was number one!"...they fell from an 8.3 in 1977 to a 3.9...tenth place...in 1981. So that survey was of the less than half of WABC's audience that hadn't abandoned ship yet. I wouldn't have put a lot of stock in even when new.

 

[michael hagerty]

Mr. Hagerty, does KRTH actually play "You Light Up My Life" if it received enough votes to make the top 500? (Let's just assume it did..)

Sure. You pointed out a few months back that they're giving "Afternoon Delight" an occasional spin. If it got the votes and there was no reason to believe the votes weren't legitimate, I think they'd play it.

 

[michael hagerty]

And a bit of research turns up the reason "Brown Eyed Girl" didn't show up in WABC's countdown.

WABC played the record for exactly one week (9/26/67). It was #33. And then gone.

Likely reason: WMCA added it in mid-July and played it for at least a month. It looks like it was a mid-charter for them. But KHJ added it in early August and it was #2 by the end of the month. That translated to a lot of copies moving in L.A., which generated excitement and boosted wholesale orders.

My guess is when it hit #10 in Billboard, WABC figured they couldn't ignore it, added it and found that New York had already heard it and wasn't impressed.

 

[oldies76]

And a bit of research turns up the reason "Brown Eyed Girl" didn't show up in WABC's countdown.

WABC played the record for exactly one week (9/26/67). It was #33. And then gone.

Likely reason: WMCA added it in mid-July and played it for at least a month. It looks like it was a mid-charter for them. But KHJ added it in early August and it was #2 by the end of the month. That translated to a lot of copies moving in L.A., which generated excitement and boosted wholesale orders.

My guess is when it hit #10 in Billboard, WABC figured they couldn't ignore it, added it and found that New York had already heard it and wasn't impressed.

Very interesting data here, thanks. You're right, it did peak at #2 on the KHJ radio surveys. It did air on KRTH's specialty weekend, the #2's back in the 80's. It's really a good song, just like hearing every so often though.

 

[davideduardo]

In 1981 WABC in New York compiled a listener-voted Top 200. The list includes Elvis, Sinatra, Streisand, Manilow, Christopher Cross, Air Supply, the Knack and the DeFranco Family---way different than KRTH's boring and predictable list.

But any poll reflects how people feel today.

What people liked 33 years ago half way across the continent is not relevant... mostly due to the time factor.

 

[Thomps2525]

David, this is only speculation but I wonder what KRTH's countdowns would have included if KRTH had always played songs that are one year old or older. For many years KRTH played 1955 to 1963, then 1955 to 1969, then added some early 1970s. Now it's mostly 1964 through the mid-'80s. If, in 1990, KRTH played songs from 1955 to 1989---and if, in 2000, KRTH played songs from 1955 to 1999---and if, in 2013, KRTH played songs from 1955 to 2012---do you think Satisfaction and Hey Jude and Light My Fire would continue to be among the top ten songs every year? If what Michael theorizes is true, that KRTH's core audience will vote for only the songs they hear every day on KRTH, then if KRTH played more recent songs, would those songs show up in the voting? Or would people still vote for the "same ol' songs" such as the three aforementioned?

 

[semoochie]

It's an interesting question but the point is moot because no one would listen! I am probably the exception, in that I like music covering that entire time span but I don't want to hear it mixed together.

 

[michael hagerty]

I'll say this as clearly as I can:

KRTH listeners know they're being asked to vote for a KRTH countdown. They'll vote for songs they like that either KRTH plays or that they think fit.

If they also listen to KOST, AMP, and KKGO, they're not going to put songs they like on those stations on the KRTH list. Nor would they ask any of those stations to play "Proud Mary".

It's why they don't walk into See's Candies and order sushi.

 

[davideduardo]

It's why they don't walk into See's Candies and order sushi.

But if sushi hit #10 in LA area food choices last year, then See's is manipulating its menu.

 

[michael hagerty]

I took that WABC 1981 Top 200 and crossed out everything that was newer than five years old. At that point, songs have demonstrated some staying power and are less likely to be influenced by then-current fads and events. Here's the Top 30:

1. Yesterday (The Beatles)
2. Bridge Over Troubled Water (Simon and Garfunkel)
3. Imagine (John Lennon)
4. The Way We Were (Barbra Streisand)
5. Mandy (Barry Manilow)
6. Help! (The Beatles)
7. Let It Be (The Beatles)
8. Sweet Caroline (Neil Diamond)
9. Stairway To Heaven (Led Zeppelin)
10.Young Girl (Gary Puckett & The Union Gap)
11.Color My World (Chicago)
12.My Way (Frank Sinatra)
13.Evergreen (Barbra Streisand)
14.Cherish (The Association)
15.Satisfaction (The Rolling Stones)
16.Tears of a Clown (Smokey Robinson & The Miracles)
17.Piano Man (Billy Joel)
18.Rag Doll (Four Seasons)
19.I Want To Hold Your Hand (The Beatles)
20.If (Bread)
21.Your Song (Elton John)
22.If I Fell (Beatles)
23.California Girls (Beach Boys)
24.American Pie (Don McLean)
25.Surfin' USA (Beach Boys)
26.This Magic Moment (Jay & The Americans)
27.In The Still Of The Night (Five Satins)
28.Cara Mia (Jay & The Americans)
29.Words (Bee Gees)
30.This One's For You (Barry Manilow)

I left in "Imagine" and The Beatles tracks even though a lot of it was probably driven by sentiment over John Lennon's murder.

I left in Streisand even though she was on a hot streak from "The Way We Were" onward that was still happening when they did the survey.

I left in "My Way" even though it's probably tied to his comeback with "New York, New York".

What's left when you set those aside for a moment?

Two Jay & The Americans records (they were big WABC faves).

One of four #1s by The Four Seasons (also a big WABC group).

One song older than 1963...from 1956, which would make it as old then as something from 1988 is today.

A left-field choice from Chicago, especially considering that it was the only one of their songs to make WABC's 200.

An equally left-field choice from the Bee Gees.

And....say it with me now:

Bridge Over Troubled Water, Sweet Caroline, Stairway To Heaven, Young Girl, Cherish, Satisfaction, Tears Of A Clown, Piano Man, If, Your Song, California Girls, American Pie, Surfin' USA.

 

[Thomps2525]

Michael, your See's Candies analogy is irrelevant. See's would not sell sushi because See's is a candy store. KRTH, on the other hand, is a "classic hits" station. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to try to explain why there can't be any "classic hits" from the 1990s or 2000s. And how can you be so positive that listeners won't vote for a song that KRTH isn't already playing?

It would be fun to compile a top-ten list based on the choices of all of us on this thread. We might all be surprised.