KRTH 2013 Labor Day Countdown

[michael hagerty]

Michael, your See's Candies analogy is irrelevant. See's would not sell sushi because See's is a candy store. KRTH, on the other hand, is a "classic hits" station. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to try to explain why there can't be any "classic hits" from the 1990s or 2000s. And how can you be so positive that listeners won't vote for a song that KRTH isn't already playing?

It would be fun to compile a top-ten list based on the choices of all of us on this thread. We might all be surprised.

First of all, I've said, in this thread, that if the votes are there, you'll find 1990s and later songs in the KRTH countdown. I'll be amazed if "Smooth" isn't on it. And the Selena track they play.

Beyond that, though, it comes back to the average listener having between six and nine stations they listen to. "KRTH is my classic hits station. KKGO is my Country station. When I want to hear softer music, I tune to KOST." And so on.

I didn't say listeners won't vote for a song KRTH isn't already playing. But mathematically, figuring tens of thousands of votes, the odds of enough of them voting for the same song KRTH isn't playing aren't all that great. And as we've seen from David's experience, mine and the WABC list you posted, people tend to vote for what the station plays.

The fact is that See's and Meshuga 4 Sushi on LaBrea both serve things that people eat. And that they eat at different times for different reasons and that have very different flavors.

But, if we have to be metaphorically consistent beyond that:

It's why people don't walk in to Musso & Frank and ask for Dim Sum.

It's why people don't go to Yamashiro and order pizza.

It's why they don't go to Lucille's Smokehouse and say "I'd like Daal Makhani".

They go to Musso for steaks and chops, to Yamashiro for Japanese food (and the view), to Lucille's for barbecue. If they want Dim Sum, pizza or Indian food, they have places they go for those.

 

[Thomps2525]

Maybe KRTH's listeners are aware that there have been "classic hits" in the years since the mid-1980s. Maybe there are more recent songs that will get a lot of votes. Maybe this year's Top 500 will include Born This Way, We Belong Together, End Of The Road, One Sweet Day, My Heart Will Go On, I Gotta Feeling and Candle In The Wind 1997. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to Jack-In-The-Box and get an Arby-Q and some curly fries for lunch.

 

[michael hagerty]

Maybe KRTH's listeners are aware that there have been "classic hits" in the years since the mid-1980s. Maybe there are more recent songs that will get a lot of votes. Maybe this year's Top 500 will include Born This Way, We Belong Together, End Of The Road, One Sweet Day, My Heart Will Go On, I Gotta Feeling and Candle In The Wind 1997. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to Jack-In-The-Box and get an Arby-Q and some curly fries for lunch.

Curly fries they've got.

 

[michael hagerty]

It would be fun to compile a top-ten list based on the choices of all of us on this thread. We might all be surprised.

So far, six people have contributed to this thread. At three songs each, I'm betting you'd have an 18-way tie for #1. If we were totally honest, didn't look at each other's posts, didn't communicate with each other in any way and just posted our three favorite songs, I'd be amazed if a single song got more than one vote.

 

[oldies76]

First of all, I've said, in this thread, that if the votes are there, you'll find 1990s and later songs in the KRTH countdown. I'll be amazed if "Smooth" isn't on it. And the Selena track they play.

Those are just two songs from the 90's, out of hundreds of potential song titles.

Here's a small list, if I could vote for all of these, I would:

1) Crazy - Seal (1991)
2) Don't Walk Away - Jade (1993)
3) Tom's Diner - Suzanne Vega & DNA (1990)
4) You Can't Deny It - Lisa Stansfield (1990)
5) Unbelievable - EMF (1991)
6) Just Another Day - Jon Secada (1992)
7) Come Undone - Duran Duran (1993)
8 I Swear - All 4 One (1994)
9) Fantasy - Mariah Carey (1995)
10) Run Away - Real McCoy (1995)
11) As I Lay Me Down - Sophie B Hawkins (1995)
12) Don't Speak - No Doubt (1996)
13) Return of the Mack - Mark Morrison (1997)
14) Tubthumping - Chumbawamba (1997)
15) Do You Know (What It Takes) - Robyn (1997)
16) Gettin' Jiggy With It - Will Smith (1998)
17) Crush - Jennifer Paige (1998)
18) Smooth - Santana (1999)
19) Someday - Sugar Ray (1999)
20) Bailamos - Enrique Iglesias (1999)

I could list 50 more 1990's songs that would fit KRTH, but 20 is good enough.

 

[michael hagerty]

First of all, I've said, in this thread, that if the votes are there, you'll find 1990s and later songs in the KRTH countdown. I'll be amazed if "Smooth" isn't on it. And the Selena track they play.

Those are just two songs from the 90's, out of hundreds of potential song titles.

Here's a small list, if I could vote for all of these, I would:

1) Crazy - Seal (1991)
2) Don't Walk Away - Jade (1993)
3) Tom's Diner - Suzanne Vega & DNA (1990)
4) You Can't Deny It - Lisa Stansfield (1990)
5) Unbelievable - EMF (1991)
6) Just Another Day - Jon Secada (1992)
7) Come Undone - Duran Duran (1993)
8 I Swear - All 4 One (1994)
9) Fantasy - Mariah Carey (1995)
10) Run Away - Real McCoy (1995)
11) As I Lay Me Down - Sophie B Hawkins (1995)
12) Don't Speak - No Doubt (1996)
13) Return of the Mack - Mark Morrison (1997)
14) Tubthumping - Chumbawamba (1997)
15) Do You Know (What It Takes) - Robyn (1997)
16) Gettin' Jiggy With It - Will Smith (1998)
17) Crush - Jennifer Paige (1998)
18) Smooth - Santana (1999)
19) Someday - Sugar Ray (1999)
20) Bailamos - Enrique Iglesias (1999)

I could list 50 more 1990's songs that would fit KRTH, but 20 is good enough.

That's a good list. At some point, KRTH will probably play some if not all of them.

But let's remember that people on this board less than a year ago were in full freak-out over KRTH embracing the 80s to the extent that it has.

 

[oldies76]

I'll be amazed if "Smooth" isn't on it.

It might not be actually. Listeners usually identify Santana by their early hits, such as "Black Magic Woman" or "Oye Como Va"...those two should make the top 500 (I hope..)

 

[davideduardo]

KRTH, on the other hand, is a "classic hits" station.

It may help to understand that "classic hits" is simply the banner that the station parades under for business purposes.

Internally, the station is defined by the target demo that they wish to reach. It does not matter what other classic hits stations play elsewhere. It does not matter what charted 30 years ago. What matters is what will attract listeners today.

 

[Thomps2525]

To the list of 1990s songs that Mister oldies76 posted, I would add all four of Ace Of Base's top-ten hits: The Sign, Don't Turn Around, All That She Wants and Cruel Summer. I'd also add Barbie Girl by Aqua; Mattel objected to the song but I bought the CD and it's fun dance-pop. Maybe Rick Thomas will add most of those songs...and maybe sooner than we think---although I can't imagine Return Of The Mack and Gettin' Jiggy With It on KRTH. Considering that KRTH plays a Selena song and still plays La Bamba, then Bailamos is a perfect fit. The others are good choices too.

In the late 1980s KRTH played only a few songs from the early 1970s. When 1990 arrived, KRTH had a new competitor, KODJ, and the decade of the '60s was now an additional decade older. I thought then that KRTH would add more '70s songs and maybe some early '80s. They didn't. Now in 2013 KRTH plays a lot of '80s songs and two from the '90s. Here is a question for David and/or Michael to answer: Has KRTH ever asked listeners if they want to hear songs from the late '80s and the '90s? Or is that "target demo" content to keep hearing the same 900 songs over and over and over and over and over, year after year after year after year after year?

 

[michael hagerty]

In the late 1980s KRTH played only a few songs from the early 1970s. When 1990 arrived, KRTH had a new competitor, KODJ, and the decade of the '60s was now an additional decade older. I thought then that KRTH would add more '70s songs and maybe some early '80s. They didn't. Now in 2013 KRTH plays a lot of '80s songs and two from the '90s. Here is a question for David and/or Michael to answer: Has KRTH ever asked listeners if they want to hear songs from the late '80s and the '90s? Or is that "target demo" content to keep hearing the same 900 songs over and over and over and over and over, year after year after year after year after year?

Yes. They ask by playing the songs to a representative sample in music tests. When the number of positives hits a sweet spot in the sales demo, they'll move those songs in.

And given the huge strides KRTH has made both in terms of playlist size, variety and eras covered, I'm somewhere between stunned and bemused at the "same 900 songs over and over and over and over and over, year after year after year after year after year" remark.

 

[Thomps2525]

KRTH, 1975: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1976: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1977: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1978: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1979: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1980: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1981: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1982: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1983: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.

Need I continue?

Space precludes me from listing the other 895 songs...and yes, the playlist is much larger than it was during the Jay Coffey era, but it's still very predictable and very repetitious.

 

[oldies76]

And given the huge strides KRTH has made both in terms of playlist size, variety and eras covered, I'm somewhere between stunned and bemused at the "same 900 songs over and over and over and over and over, year after year after year after year after year" remark.

And knowing that there are thousands of top 20 singles from 1964 to 1985 that aren't being played, 900 seems like a drop in the bucket. Steve does have a few points here, especially the fact that the same two 90's songs are the only ones that KRTH has played in the last 10 years, it seems. Actually, it might be three, if you include "Black or White" from 1991.

Jhani Kaye has done a tremendous improvement over at KRTH, but many listeners know it as much as Rewind or myself, that the current selection, while very good, has to be changed up every so often, to rid of the stagnation impression. That's where the extra lost hit or two every hour comes into play....but Michael, we've been through this.......maybe 900 times. ;D

 

[oldies76]

Space precludes me from listing the other 895 songs...and yes, the playlist is much larger than it was during the Jay Coffey era, but it's still very predictable and very repetitious.

You forgot "Don't Stop Believin" and "Low Rider".... ;D 893 to go!

 

[oldies76]

the playlist is much larger than it was during the Jay Coffey era, but it's still very predictable and very repetitious.

Do you actually recall hearing KRTH in the mid 90's (Mike Phillips) or 2002 (Coffey)? I can't remember the number of times I had to change the station. Probably since I was so used to hearing and enjoying the KRTH of the 80's and the drastic change to "boredom" and thinking "the way it used to be....."

Kaye did a great job and hopefully Thomas can return KRTH to it's glory days, even with the newer cuts in rotation. Specialty weekends can be done with "newer" classic hits too.

 

[michael hagerty]

KRTH, 1975: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1976: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1977: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1978: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1979: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1980: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1981: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1982: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.
KRTH, 1983: Brown Eyed Girl, My Girl, Happy Together, Do Wah Diddy Diddy, Oh Pretty Woman.

Need I continue?

Space precludes me from listing the other 895 songs...and yes, the playlist is much larger than it was during the Jay Coffey era, but it's still very predictable and very repetitious.

Actually, starting your list in 1992 would be more accurate, since KRTH was Adult Contemporary from 1976-1985 and those songs made very infrequent appearances (as they do now).

And if you're a 40-something woman instead of a 60-something man, not only are you relevant to KRTH's advertisers, but you very likely weren't listening to KRTH before Jhani Kaye.

Combine that with normal listening patterns resulting in the most-frequently played songs (which no longer includes the ones listed above) being heard by the average listener roughly every three weeks and...

 

[michael hagerty]

And given the huge strides KRTH has made both in terms of playlist size, variety and eras covered, I'm somewhere between stunned and bemused at the "same 900 songs over and over and over and over and over, year after year after year after year after year" remark.

And knowing that there are thousands of top 20 singles from 1964 to 1985 that aren't being played, 900 seems like a drop in the bucket. Steve does have a few points here, especially the fact that the same two 90's songs are the only ones that KRTH has played in the last 10 years, it seems. Actually, it might be three, if you include "Black or White" from 1991.

Jhani Kaye has done a tremendous improvement over at KRTH, but many listeners know it as much as Rewind or myself, that the current selection, while very good, has to be changed up every so often, to rid of the stagnation impression. That's where the extra lost hit or two every hour comes into play....but Michael, we've been through this.......maybe 900 times. ;D

The only stagnation impression is with atypical listeners. Regular listeners are having their expectations met, which is why they're still regular listeners.

The ratings problem that KRTH needs to address isn't a declining number of listeners...that's fairly consistent. Their problem is they need to fatten up the sweet spot in the demo.

 

[Thomps2525]

I very seldom listen to KRTH anymore. I get off work at 3:30 and sometimes when I get in my car I'll turn on KRTH just to see what they're playing. Many times I've heard Brown Eyed Girl, Mrs. Robinson or California Dreamin' at 3:30. I've been told that each song has a rotation that prevents it from airing at the same time on two different days in the same month. That may be true. If it is, and considering that I don't listen often, then it's just coincidence that I so often hear one of those three songs at 3:30. But it is no coincidence that I immediately switch to another station.

Michael mentioned KRTH's "variety" and "eras covered." So where are the instrumental hits and the doo-wop hits and the modern-rock hits and the new-wave hits and the MOR hits and the AC hits and the 1950s hits and the 1990s hits and the 2000s hits? "Variety"? Pfffttt!!!

 

[oldies76]

Michael mentioned KRTH's "variety" and "eras covered." So where are the instrumental hits and the doo-wop hits and the modern-rock hits and the new-wave hits and the MOR hits and the AC hits and the 1950s hits and the 1990s hits and the 2000s hits? "Variety"? Pfffttt!!!

Instrumental hits?? Yeah, "Tequila" and ONLY "Tequila".

How about "Love is Blue", "Honky Tonk", "Calcutta", "Patricia", "Hang 'em High", "Time is Tight", "TSOP", "Axel F" or even "Rainforest"?? I could name 50 more, but I won't.

Speaking about Instrumentals, wonder how many will appear in the 500?? None, one?

 

[Thomps2525]

So far this year, the biggest-selling CD offered by Collectors Choice Music (ccmusic.com) has been the three-disc set of Complete Instrumental Hits Of The 1960s, Volume 3: 1962. That's the most recent release in the series, which will eventually cover 1960 through 1969 and include every 1960s instrumental to make the Hot 100 and many more that never charted. It may be that part of the reason so many people---myself included---are buying these CDs is because we know we'll never again hear any of the 1960s instrumentals on the radio. Every weekend KRTH plays the same songs that they play every day of the week, just in a slightly different order. Wouldn't it be fun to have a '60s Instrumental Weekend and have every other song be a...well...a '60s instrumental? Rick Thomas? Do you dare?

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael mentioned KRTH's "variety" and "eras covered." So where are the instrumental hits and the doo-wop hits and the modern-rock hits and the new-wave hits and the MOR hits and the AC hits and the 1950s hits and the 1990s hits and the 2000s hits? "Variety"? Pfffttt!!!

Instrumental hits?? Yeah, "Tequila" and ONLY "Tequila".

How about "Love is Blue", "Honky Tonk", "Calcutta", "Patricia", "Hang 'em High", "Time is Tight", "TSOP", "Axel F" or even "Rainforest"?? I could name 50 more, but I won't.

Speaking about Instrumentals, wonder how many will appear in the 500?? None, one?

Axel F and TSOP are about the only ones you could reasonably expect to do well with the target. Maybe the Booker Ts.....