KRTH ......and more

[krth101]

With no intent to turn this thread into another debate about KRTHs music and the change in format, I'd like to ask the following:

A - now that KRTH has become primarily an 80s station - and to their credit have done exceptionally well in the ratings because of this, the question is where did KRTH pull their new audience from. And which stations have experienced down turns since this

B - what percentage of former KRTH listeners stuck with the station and comprise their audience

C - as for the disenfranchised KRTH audience that enjoyed the oldies, and have moved on, where did you go? What stations, what other outlets have you discovered in the past year?

D - do you foresee a time - and a station where the music from the 60s and early 70s may return in some form to terrestrial radio?

On a personal note, even though the KRTH I enjoyed for many years essentially went away when jhani Kaye retired 2 years ago, I find the decision to not renew Charlie van dykes contract as the stations imaging voice *to really signal the end of an era. CVD was the sound of KRTH to many of us. Thank you Charlie for all those great years

 

[K.M. Richards]

With no intent to turn this thread into another debate about KRTHs music and the change in format, I'd like to ask the following:

A - now that KRTH has become primarily an 80s station - and to their credit have done exceptionally well in the ratings because of this, the question is where did KRTH pull their new audience from. And which stations have experienced down turns since this

First, remember that very few listeners, other than those who listen to religious stations and those who speak a foreign language that is only on a single station (e.g., KIRN, KVNR), are going to listen to just one station. KRTH is probably pulling listeners from several stations, some of whom never listened before and some who had KRTH among their set of favorite stations but now listen to KRTH more than they did.

In other words, that question requires a more simplistic listening pattern to answer than what actually exists.

But David -- when he's finished unpacking from his move last week -- can find in the Nielsens which stations have the highest amount of shared listenership with KRTH.

B - what percentage of former KRTH listeners stuck with the station and comprise their audience

That one's going to be even more difficult, if not impossible, to answer. Again, it's not a listen/don't listen, all or nothing situation. Some KRTH listeners, especially at the young end, will still be there. Some at the older end will also stay, if they like the sound of the station's music mix. And some will either increase or decrease their listening amount.

C - as for the disenfranchised KRTH audience that enjoyed the oldies, and have moved on, where did you go? What stations, what other outlets have you discovered in the past year?

Again, what if they haven't "moved on"? What if they are just listening less?

And what makes you think those listeners are going to come here and answer you? It has been proven that the only non-radio professionals who post here are radio groupies and radio junkies. I'll bet you that far less than 1% of those "disenfranchised" listeners even know this site exists.

D - do you foresee a time - and a station where the music from the 60s and early 70s may return in some form to terrestrial radio?

This has been answered many times before, so you get the short version, in boldface:

Only if the advertising community (comprising the national advertisers and the ad agencies) decides that listeners over the age of 55 are worth marketing to and start looking to buy air time on stations that serve that older demographic. I promise you, if that unlikely situation would occur, you would find at least one station per market would flip to an oldies format. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you waiting for that to happen.

On a personal note, even though the KRTH I enjoyed for many years essentially went away when jhani Kaye retired 2 years ago, I find the decision to not renew Charlie van dykes contract as the stations imaging voice *to really signal the end of an era. CVD was the sound of KRTH to many of us. Thank you Charlie for all those great years

And that is the most likely reason the Rev. Van Dyke's contract wasn't renewed. CBS wants to break from the "old" KRTH sound as much as they can ... because this shift in demographics was so long overdue. It had to happen sometime, even though I agree CVD has an incredible set of pipes.

 

[TheBigA]

Again, what if they haven't "moved on"? What if they are just listening less?

Or what if they have moved OUT? From what I see, statistically, there has been a huge demographic shift in the LA audience. It's very different from other markets in the US. I think it's an incorrect assumption to think that people who listened to the station 30 years ago still live in the market, or are still alive period.

 

[davideduardo]

But David -- when he's finished unpacking from his move last week -- can find in the Nielsens which stations have the highest amount of shared listenership with KRTH.

KRTH shares with loads of stations. I cite 25-54 only, as the 55+ is irrelevant to the business.

KBIG, KOST, KIIS and KCBS-FM share 30% or more of KRTH's cume. Those over 20% are KAMP, KYSR, KROQ, KHHT, KSWD and KLOS. Between 15% and 20% are KLVE, KTWV, KLAX, KLYY and KRCD.

Before anyone asks, the sharing adds up to much more than 100%, as the average PPM participant uses 5 or 6 different stations in the course of a week.

 

[TheBigA]

KBIG, KOST, KIIS and KCBS-FM share 30% or more of KRTH's cume.

The one that surprises me the most there is KIIS.

 

[davideduardo]

The one that surprises me the most there is KIIS.

Considering that KIIS is 4th in 35-64 women, there is going to be a lot of crossover between the younger KRTH listeners and the older KIIS listeners.

 

[radio128]

I will answer part C of your question. When I'm in the mood for 60s music the stations I enjoy most are WDJO in Cincinnati and Real Oldies on Iheart Radio in the afternoon when Marty Thompson is on. Once in a while I will check out WLNG.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

With no intent to turn this thread into another debate about KRTHs music and the change in format, I'd like to ask the following:

A - now that KRTH has become primarily an 80s station - and to their credit have done exceptionally well in the ratings because of this, the question is where did KRTH pull their new audience from. And which stations have experienced down turns since this

B - what percentage of former KRTH listeners stuck with the station and comprise their audience

C - as for the disenfranchised KRTH audience that enjoyed the oldies, and have moved on, where did you go? What stations, what other outlets have you discovered in the past year?

D - do you foresee a time - and a station where the music from the 60s and early 70s may return in some form to terrestrial radio?

On a personal note, even though the KRTH I enjoyed for many years essentially went away when jhani Kaye retired 2 years ago, I find the decision to not renew Charlie van dykes contract as the stations imaging voice *to really signal the end of an era. CVD was the sound of KRTH to many of us. Thank you Charlie for all those great years

C - Sirius XM has an excellent 60s channel, especially their weekly countdown show "Sixties Satellite Survey" with Lou Simon. Lou plays a wide variety because he doesn't skip over anything on the countdown. Has great information about the music too. I am really a fan of how much effort he must put in on the show to make it so good.

D - It is satellite or the internet for you my friend. The older you get, the more you realize that terrestrial radio is really just for those kids who don't care about the history of their music, dagnabit.

 

[TheBigA]

Considering that KIIS is 4th in 35-64 women, there is going to be a lot of crossover between the younger KRTH listeners and the older KIIS listeners.

How many songs in KIIS playlist?

 

[davideduardo]

How many songs in KIIS playlist?

KIIS has a number of mix or feature segments. So only counting songs that got 3 or more spins a week, 125 songs total. If you go to songs with 5 or more weekly spins, there are 81 songs.

The top 5 songs all got over 100 spins. In fact, just about 1/3 of all plays during the entire week was just those 5 songs, which totaled 545 spins among them. Yeah, those are 90 minute rotational turnovers.

KIIS cumes 3.5 million on average, or 30% of all 6+ persons in the entire market.

Guess what station wins the title for the perception of "greatest variety"?

 

[davideduardo]

C - Sirius XM has an excellent 60s channel, especially their weekly countdown show "Sixties Satellite Survey" with Lou Simon. Lou plays a wide variety because he doesn't skip over anything on the countdown. Has great information about the music too. I am really a fan of how much effort he must put in on the show to make it so good.

Here is where our opinions differ (and I clarify that neither of us is "right" or "wrong" but simply are looking for different things).

I have pretty much given up on the 60's channel. While I played many of those songs on the radio when they were currents and have a radio person's familiarity with Top 40, I find that in general that the 60's channel digs a bit too deep and I hear too many "ho-hum" songs waiting for a solid universal hit that still sounds good.

In fact, quite a few tunes dredge up the image of record ducks pushing songs we all knew were stiffs. Somehow, a lot of those songs got played a bit and sold a coupla' boxes of singles and popped on and off the chart for a brief moment. But I don't enjoy hearing them either at all or too often.

D - It is satellite or the internet for you my friend. The older you get, the more you realize that terrestrial radio is really just for those kids who don't care about the history of their music, dagnabit.

Agreed. I think that the 50's and 60's fans, as well as doo-wop followers and partisans of other pre-1970 music can enjoy quite a few offerings via new media and, if you can bear the audio quality, satellite. It's an option folks did not have in other eras and is definitely an option for those who commercial radio can not serve.

 

[TheBigA]

Guess what station wins the title for the perception of "greatest variety"?

Exactly...it's all about context. That's why I always say: If you're tired of the songs on KRTH, just spend a day with Amp or Star.

 

[oldies76]

D - do you foresee a time - and a station where the music from the 60s and early 70s may return in some form to terrestrial radio?

Unfortunately we now have to rely on certain AM's for music like this, for the most part. Honestly, I don't see L.A. being successful with an AM, unless you drive out to some smaller town out in the desert and catch one on the other side of the San Gabriels.

 

[davideduardo]

Unfortunately we now have to rely on certain AM's for music like this, for the most part. Honestly, I don't see L.A. being successful with an AM, unless you drive out to some smaller town out in the desert and catch one on the other side of the San Gabriels.

The problem in LA is two-fold.

First, it is an agency driven town as far as English language non-religious radio is concerned and agencies don't buy the ages that "music like this" appeals to.

Second, to get any audience at all, an AM would have to have a pretty good signal. The economics of what such a signal would cost vs. the revenue it could attract from low-rate local direct clients just does not work.

 

[TheBigA]

Unfortunately we now have to rely on certain AM's for music like this, for the most part. Honestly, I don't see L.A. being successful with an AM, unless you drive out to some smaller town out in the desert and catch one on the other side of the San Gabriels.

But then again, you don't live in LA, so why do you care?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Maybe he likes to DX��

 

[oldies76]

But then again, you don't live in LA, so why do you care?

I happen to have an lingering (historic) interest in L.A. radio (certain stations), considering I lived in Orange County from 1978 thru 2005, fair enough?

 

[TheBigA]

I happen to have an lingering (historic) interest in L.A. radio (certain stations), considering I lived in Orange County from 1978 thru 2005, fair enough?

There's a difference between having an "interest" and demanding a service in a place where you no longer live. You left. They have no obligation to you.

It's like expecting the new owner of your former house to keep it decorated as you had it.

 

[Groove1670]

It is going to be interesting what is going to happen with radio and the music industry in general. Several of today's current acts have cancelled their tours (For a lack of ticket sales) . However, acts such as Rush, Elton John and Bon Jovi continue to sell out with record crowds. Music sales are down, and the battle for so called artist royalties rolls on. The good news, more subscription services will come online (such as Apple - as a full subscription model). This will be an advantage for radio (for those who won't pay for music) and that is a good majority of the population. I see radio expanding with more splintering formats (not to be confused with large or obscure playlists). I think the biggest challenge is going to be how does radio retain younger demos ( terrestrial or online). With texting and smartphones attention spans have become shorter. Also you now have a generation that think that they shouldn't pay for music. Radio will need to find fresh and innovative ways to reinvent itself (and larger playlists will not solve the dilemma). It will be interesting to see how radio evolves in the next few decades.

 

[oldies76]

Several of today's current acts have cancelled their tours (For a lack of ticket sales) . However, acts such as Rush, Elton John and Bon Jovi continue to sell out with record crowds.

Timeless, proven acts will do just that, give you your money's worth. Having seen Elton John twice in concert, it's worth every penny. As for current acts, lack of talent (for the most part), musicianship and the price fans have to pay for something not nearly as proven as the classics, I can see why sales are down. I wouldn't go either. Give me the Stones tour any day.