KRTH has finally added more 90's

[davideduardo]

I'm thinking that KRTH must have surveyed an audience outside of the city of Los Angeles, as big as it is. They probably had to sample the suburbs of Orange County.
Otherwise, KRTH wouldn't be playing Shania Twain and Johnny Cash. JMO

The radio market is all of LA County and the OC.

Music tests now are done, mostly, online. People are recruited to a quota, which has percentages of men, women, different age groups, ethnic group if warranted. Most important, they usually have to be heavy enough users of the station to know the music and to be able to give opinions.

For example, the specs for KRTH could be ages 34 to 49 in equal 5-year cells, 60% women, minimum 35% Hispanic, covering hot zips in the San Fernando and San Gabriel Valley area, Santa Clarita, Central LA county, Central OC, West Side, Long Beach as close to proportional as possible, listen to KRTH at least an hour a day.

The recruit is done by a professional recruiting firm who contacts people and runs through a questionnaire. If they "pass" they are invited to participate in an online "survey" of songs and they use a code to log in and grade each song based on a short hook.

Because of the use of phone recruiting and online testing, the participants will usually be sought from all the "hot ZIP codes" of the station based on ratings. Counties and ZIP codes are key. Individual cities are totally ignored as Nielsen does not measure cities, it measures markets.

I believe those two songs were played as part of a morning show feature and are not in the normal playlist. I can only find them once on one morning show date.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

The radio market is all of LA County and the OC.

Music tests now are done, mostly, online. People are recruited to a quota, which has percentages of men, women, different age groups, ethnic group if warranted. Most important, they usually have to be heavy enough users of the station to know the music and to be able to give opinions.

For example, the specs for KRTH could be ages 34 to 49 in equal 5-year cells, 60% women, minimum 35% Hispanic, covering hot zips in the San Fernando and San Gabriel Valley area, Santa Clarita, Central LA county, Central OC, West Side, Long Beach as close to proportional as possible, listen to KRTH at least an hour a day.

The recruit is done by a professional recruiting firm who contacts people and runs through a questionnaire. If they "pass" they are invited to participate in an online "survey" of songs and they use a code to log in and grade each song based on a short hook.

Because of the use of phone recruiting and online testing, the participants will usually be sought from all the "hot ZIP codes" of the station based on ratings. Counties and ZIP codes are key. Individual cities are totally ignored as Nielsen does not measure cities, it measures markets.

I believe those two songs were played as part of a morning show feature and are not in the normal playlist. I can only find them once on one morning show date.

David, thank you for taking the time to write this comprehensive and illuminating explanation. I found it to be very informative and helpful. 👍🏼😊

 

[michael hagerty]

I see this as an all or nothing principle at this point. Add these songs in, and you are most certainly going to change the overall “feel” of the station. The 70’s, 80’s and 90’s have enough in common that you can curate a playlist that bounces from Sheryl Crowe to Steve Winwood, but I have significant doubts about that being true when you add in music that is naturally going to be more polarizing.

(one more time----slowly, patiently)

It doesn't matter how it looks in a list of songs online.

What matters is how it sounds on the air.

And unless you're between 25 and 54 and living in the Arbitron Los Angeles metro survey area, it doesn't matter at all.

 

[fordranger797]

(one more time----slowly, patiently)

It doesn't matter how it looks in a list of songs online.

What matters is how it sounds on the air.

And unless you're between 25 and 54 and living in the Arbitron Los Angeles metro survey area, it doesn't matter at all.

How it sounds on air is disjointed, and that’s because it’s extremely difficult to go from music that defined the 1980’s to music that seems like a complete deviation from what is expected. AC radio can get away with it, but they’re aiming for a softer sound and concentrate only on certain tracks from the 80’s that listeners want to hear.

I don’t live in LA, but I frequently visit for work. I’m probably the type of listener that KRTH would like (in the ideal world) to appeal to at the bottom of 25-54, and this does not appeal to me in the slightest bit. But if it works for them, more power to them.

 

[TheBigA]

How it sounds on air is disjointed, and that’s because it’s extremely difficult to go from music that defined the 1980’s to music that seems like a complete deviation from what is expected.

It's called "variety." It's not any more difficult from going from do wop in the 50s to the slick synthesizers of the 80s, but that was OK when it was done in its time. The focus is on the songs, and not on the eras. People live through all of those sounds, but if they want a format that's more narrow, they can simply switch to a station that does the narrow approach.

 

[semoochie]

It's called "variety." It's not any more difficult from going from do wop in the 50s to the slick synthesizers of the 80s, but that was OK when it was done in its time. The focus is on the songs, and not on the eras. People live through all of those sounds, but if they want a format that's more narrow, they can simply switch to a station that does the narrow approach.

I can see it now: "Narrow Programing - for the narrow minded"

 

[davideduardo]

It's called "variety." It's not any more difficult from going from do wop in the 50s to the slick synthesizers of the 80s, but that was OK when it was done in its time. The focus is on the songs, and not on the eras. People live through all of those sounds, but if they want a format that's more narrow, they can simply switch to a station that does the narrow approach.

One of the things I dislike about the Sirius/XM approach of decade based channels is that after a few song I find it getting a bit monotonous. I’d much prefer a broader spectrum of years, giving greater age variety.

When I set up scheduling for a bunch of adult hits stations, I had a set of sound codes for style and texture that were not related to age and tempo so that variety would be apparent and “it sounds the same” would be avoided.

 

[ATSFGuy]

One of the things I dislike about the Sirius/XM approach of decade based channels is that after a few song I find it getting a bit monotonous. I’d much prefer a broader spectrum of years, giving greater age variety.

When I set up scheduling for a bunch of adult hits stations, I had a set of sound codes for style and texture that were not related to age and tempo so that variety would be apparent and “it sounds the same” would be avoided.

David you mentioned on another thread that sometime in the 2000's, you actually programmed 5 XM channels. Do you recall which ones?

 

[davideduardo]

David you mentioned on another thread that sometime in the 2000's, you actually programmed 5 XM channels. Do you recall which ones?

The Spanish language music ones, Spanish Rock, Spanish AC, Tropical, Tejano and Regional Mexican. That was between when XM launched and when they took commercials off the music channels. We had a deal between XM and HBC to share revenue, and we programmed the music.

 

[fordranger797]

I’ve been thinking about KRTH a bit over the past few days. After sampling more of the station, I would argue that they are doing certain things very well. They play many 80’s tracks that don’t get as much airplay as they should on other stations across the country. They played “Dance Hall Days” by Wang Chung, “Party all the Time” by Eddie Murphy, and “It’s my Life” by Talk Talk. All good songs and I’m glad that they’re getting airplay on KRTH. The 90’s tracks aren’t as abrasive as they may seem, and they don’t seem to spin them that often (or play anything too extreme).

With all that being said, it seems like the current format can be a bit jarring because most of the newer tracks have a different “sound” from the rest of the playlist. While I’m sure that these songs tested decently well, I would like to know why KRTH seems to simultaneously ignore other 90’s tracks that seem like a good fit for the format. I’ll list a few songs that seem like they would fit in:

Alanis Morissette - You Otta Know
Alanis Morissette - You Learn
Alanis Morissette - Thank U
Alanis Morissette - Ironic
Sheryl Crowe - All I Wanna Do
Sheryl Crowe - Soak up the Sun
Santana/Rob Thomas - Smooth
Matchbox 20 - 3am
Wallflowers - One Headlight
Joan Osborne - One of Us
Dido - Thank you
Dido - White Flag
Gin Blossoms - Hey Jealousy
Semisonic - Closing Time
Natalie Imbrulia - Torn
New Radicals - Get What you Give
Sixpence None the Richer - Kiss Me
Train - Drops of Jupiter
Radiohead - Creep
TLC - Waterfalls
Barenaked Ladies - Brian Wilson
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Soul to Squeeze

All in all, it seems like if “Genie in a Bottle” by Christina Agulara and “Gangster’s Paradise” can make the cut, some of the songs I listed should be there as well. Yet I have yet to hear any of them. I understand that the market may demand content that fits the population better, but it seems like they’re missing out on some very safe tracks that can satisfy the need for 90’s and keep the peace at the same time.

Too long didn’t read: if we need more 90’s why don’t these songs make the cut while other songs that are far more polarizing (to some listeners) do? Perhaps a listener may be more receptive to hearing a song like “Uptown Funk” if they already identify certain newer tracks on the KRTH playlist that they like.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I’ve been thinking about KRTH a bit over the past few days. After sampling more of the station, I would argue that they are doing certain things very well. They play many 80’s tracks that don’t get as much airplay as they should on other stations across the country. They played “Dance Hall Days” by Wang Chung, “Party all the Time” by Eddie Murphy, and “It’s my Life” by Talk Talk. All good songs and I’m glad that they’re getting airplay on KRTH. The 90’s tracks aren’t as abrasive as they may seem, and they don’t seem to spin them that often (or play anything too extreme).

With all that being said, it seems like the current format can be a bit jarring because most of the newer tracks have a different “sound” from the rest of the playlist. While I’m sure that these songs tested decently well, I would like to know why KRTH seems to simultaneously ignore other 90’s tracks that seem like a good fit for the format. I’ll list a few songs that seem like they would fit in:

Alanis Morissette - You Otta Know
Alanis Morissette - You Learn
Alanis Morissette - Thank U
Alanis Morissette - Ironic
Sheryl Crowe - All I Wanna Do
Sheryl Crowe - Soak up the Sun
Santana/Rob Thomas - Smooth
Matchbox 20 - 3am
Wallflowers - One Headlight
Joan Osborne - One of Us
Dido - Thank you
Dido - White Flag
Gin Blossoms - Hey Jealousy
Semisonic - Closing Time
Natalie Imbrulia - Torn
New Radicals - Get What you Give
Sixpence None the Richer - Kiss Me
Train - Drops of Jupiter
Radiohead - Creep
TLC - Waterfalls
Barenaked Ladies - Brian Wilson
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Soul to Squeeze

All in all, it seems like if “Genie in a Bottle” by Christina Agulara and “Gangster’s Paradise” can make the cut, some of the songs I listed should be there as well. Yet I have yet to hear any of them. I understand that the market may demand content that fits the population better, but it seems like they’re missing out on some very safe tracks that can satisfy the need for 90’s and keep the peace at the same time.

Too long didn’t read: if we need more 90’s why don’t these songs make the cut while other songs that are far more polarizing (to some listeners) do? Perhaps a listener may be more receptive to hearing a song like “Uptown Funk” if they already identify certain newer tracks on the KRTH playlist that they like.

These above are good songs that could fit in the with KRTH sound. Maybe they will be included eventually. It seems to me - JMO -- that as the population group who listens to 80's music gets older and ages out of being a desirable demographic for advertisers, KRTH will eventually go to all 90's programming, with songs from the fringes of the 80's and the 2000's. Bruno Mars will probably always fit into a "hot" classic hits format, just because of his old school sound.
For example, a listener who was born in 1970 would be 15 years old in 1985 and would come of age immersed in 80's rock. But that same person is now 52 years old and way past KRTH's demographic. If commercial radio stations don't want listeners past age 49 at the very max, then a 52 year old has no relevance for them. JMO.

P.S. Yes, I realize that songs are added to a playlist after they are carefully tested and listeners are surveyed. Yes, I also realize that we have to be factually accurate, and we have no factual information that KRTH is changing to all 90's format. So, this is just subjective opinions by KRTH listeners about programming options and should be taken with ( a large) grain of salt. -- D.

 

[davideduardo]

With all that being said, it seems like the current format can be a bit jarring because most of the newer tracks have a different “sound” from the rest of the playlist. While I’m sure that these songs tested decently well, I would like to know why KRTH seems to simultaneously ignore other 90’s tracks that seem like a good fit for the format. I’ll list a few songs that seem like they would fit in:

You answered your own question with the "I’m sure that these songs tested decently well" statement. It's likely those songs, based on their "back then" airplay and style, were also tested. And it is also likely they did not pass.

As to why they did not pass, I can only guess based on having done about a thousand music tests: the older portion of the tested (and target) demo di9d not care for them enough to warrant inclusion in the playlist. Even after doing so many tests, I am still mystified and intrigued how songs that you thing will fit don't score well enough and some that you think are mediocre or thoroughly burnt out do pass.

The reason we do tests is to find out what our listeners want, not to play the songs we like or think are playable. The two frequently don't match.

 

[michael hagerty]

You answered your own question with the "I’m sure that these songs tested decently well" statement. It's likely those songs, based on their "back then" airplay and style, were also tested. And it is also likely they did not pass.

He also answered his own question by posting a list of records by Anglo artists (and one Latino---Carlos Santana, but it's Rob Thomas' vocal on that one).

Ranger, you may visit L.A. on business frequently, but virtually every post you make about KRTH shows a disconnect with the ethnic makeup of the adults in the demo who actually live there.

Looking at the ratings over the past few years, it's pretty clear Chris Ebbott doesn't share that confusion.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

All in all, it seems like if “Genie in a Bottle” by Christina Agulara and “Gangster’s Paradise” can make the cut, some of the songs I listed should be there as well. Yet I have yet to hear any of them. I understand that the market may demand content that fits the population better, but it seems like they’re missing out on some very safe tracks that can satisfy the need for 90’s and keep the peace at the same time.

Too long didn’t read: if we need more 90’s why don’t these songs make the cut while other songs that are far more polarizing (to some listeners) do? Perhaps a listener may be more receptive to hearing a song like “Uptown Funk” if they already identify certain newer tracks on the KRTH playlist that they like.

Honestly, this has been explained. Extensive music testing tells you where the audience is. If they’re “receptive” to something, that will show up—not in speculative, hypothetical and biased viewpoints, but as data points.

As the audience changes, so too will the music.

 

[fordranger797]

He also answered his own question by posting a list of records by Anglo artists (and one Latino---Carlos Santana, but it's Rob Thomas' vocal on that one).

Ranger, you may visit L.A. on business frequently, but virtually every post you make about KRTH shows a disconnect with the ethnic makeup of the adults in the demo who actually live there.

Looking at the ratings over the past few years, it's pretty clear Chris Ebbott doesn't share that confusion.

While I see what you’re saying, I think this is a totally valid question. If you’re going to start shifting into more 90’s programming, it seems like it would make sense to include more of it. Perhaps they don’t want to stretch the playlist too far or throw in anything that would miss the mark with their listeners. With that being said, when the shift inevitably happens, they’re naturally going to need other stuff to play, and therefore, I was wondering why they haven’t tried to throw at least some of them in to prepare listeners for that transition. I think that’s a fair question, as it seems like it would paint KRTH into a corner.

 

[fordranger797]

Honestly, this has been explained. Extensive music testing tells you where the audience is. If they’re “receptive” to something, that will show up—not in speculative, hypothetical and biased viewpoints, but as data points.

As the audience changes, so too will the music.

I think I see what you’re saying. If that’s true, it seems probable that KRTH will differ significantly from most radio stations in the country. While most stations will probably embrace many of the tracks I listed, it sounds like you’re saying that KRTH will need to skew somewhat to a classic urban format. If that’s what they need to do to succeed in LA, then it makes sense. Is that true?

 

[TheBigA]

While I see what you’re saying, I think this is a totally valid question. If you’re going to start shifting into more 90’s programming, it seems like it would make sense to include more of it.

I don't get what you mean with "shifting into more 90's programming." They're adding some 90's songs. But the core of their playlist is still the 1980s. Their most-played song is "Take On Me" by A-ha from 1985. So they're not shifting at all. They're a classic hits station that plays classic hits. Thirty year old songs fit that category as much as forty year old songs.

 

[fordranger797]

You answered your own question with the "I’m sure that these songs tested decently well" statement. It's likely those songs, based on their "back then" airplay and style, were also tested. And it is also likely they did not pass.

As to why they did not pass, I can only guess based on having done about a thousand music tests: the older portion of the tested (and target) demo di9d not care for them enough to warrant inclusion in the playlist. Even after doing so many tests, I am still mystified and intrigued how songs that you thing will fit don't score well enough and some that you think are mediocre or thoroughly burnt out do pass.

The reason we do tests is to find out what our listeners want, not to play the songs we like or think are playable. The two frequently don't match.

While that makes sense David, one question remains (which I already asked above). Is the future trajectory of KRTH to skew somewhat to a classic urban format? As it stands now, it seems like the listed songs will probably land on most classic hits radio stations at some point. With that being said, they may or may not land on KRTH when they inevitably need more music to play from the 90’s, but perhaps they won’t anyway. It seems like the audience will prefer music that is more urban, making the format something quite unique compared to other stations.

 

[fordranger797]

I don't get what you mean with "shifting into more 90's programming." They're adding some 90's songs. But the core of their playlist is the 1980s. So they're not shifting at all. They're a classic hits station that plays classic hits. Thirty year old songs fit that category as much as forty year old songs.

Well, naturally, they can’t play the same songs forever. Just like with 1970’s, most songs of that decade have been dropped. Eventually, most songs of the 80’s will start to be phased out too (though hopefully not for a while). When that happens, what will actually be done? They need something to play from the 90’s. Will those songs see any airplay? Or will the taste of local listeners shift the format to a more urban format? It seems like most people agree that those songs won’t test well with local listeners (while they seem to fit on other stations in other cities). It seems like KRTH will shift to a format that’s more unique compared to most stations.

 

[TheBigA]

They need something to play from the 90’s. Will those songs see any airplay? Or will the taste of local listeners shift the format to a more urban format?

Take a look at the playlist at KTWV. That is a station co-owned with KRTH. KRTH can't really get too urban because it will compete with co-owned kTWV.