KRTH IS NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE THEY PLAY THE BEST MUSIC !!

[davideduardo]

??? 400 some titles is "too large"? Just the opposite man. Look at CBS-FM's list and tell us that their list is too large and the success they are having. Wish you'd see the positives here.

KRTH plays about 800 titles in a week, and has a cumulative multi-week total in excess of that. That's obviously too many.

How many songs do you think is appropriate in a classic hits format....something like 200 I'd bet you'd say.

The number will vary by market. In LA, I suspect, based on the math, that somewhere in the 650 title range is right.

It won't work and most would tune out quickly and rarely, if ever return.

I think, over time, that such gold based formats will see that the P1 model of the diary world is just wrong in the PPM universe. The ultra-P1's like you will, or should be, ignored and the P2's and P3's listened to.

As we have seen, there is no way to make you happy, ever. So stations should ignore you and the tiny island of listeners you represent and go for the big and broad user group that will come, even as a second or third choice, from many, many different formats.

 

[oldies76]

I remember Perry Como songs, Billy Vaughn tunes, Gogi Grant ditties and such... but I cringe and reach for the Imodium when I think of them.

Yeah and I could pass on Shaun Cassidy's "Da Do Ron Ron".

 

[oldies76]

KRTH plays about 800 titles in a week. That's obviously too many.

I can see listener boredom setting in at your fantasy station...very quickly.

As we have seen, there is no way to make you happy, ever. So stations should ignore you and the tiny island of listeners you represent and go for the big and broad user group that will come, even as a second or third choice, from many, many different formats.

Why would oldies stations ignore me?? They crave us....If stations had even 10% of my type of listeners, they'd be reeling the big bucks. Us oldies-freaks (as you once called me and our "missing" Scooty430) enjoy stations that play the hits, we're looking for. And there are plenty of those, just not in L.A.

I'm not happy?? Think again....just not too happy with one station that cannot and won't take full advantage of today's programming opportunities, that other stations have done already! Get it??

 

[davideduardo]

Why would stations ignore me??

Simple... making you happy makes the other two and a half million cumers less happy. Those lighter listeners want to hear their favorites every time they tune in... that's why they come. You are tired of the very songs the mass of listeners want to hear, and so a station that pleases you displeases the less passionate "deep oldies" partisan.

If stations had even 10% of my type of listeners, they'd be reeling the big bucks.

No, they would be reeling from the preparations for the bankruptcy filing. Cume would disintigrate, and the resultant share would plummet.

Us oldies-freaks (as you once called me and our "missing" Scooty430) enjoy stations that play the hits, we're looking for. And there are plenty of those, just not in L.A.

Stations, in the PPM world, don't want to cater to the ultra-active listener. There are not enough of them, given the revealing of what we always knew existed in the diary world but never saw... the "phantom cume." Those second and third choice stations just did not get written down much in the diary. They dominate in the PPM.

 

[oldies76]

KRTH plays about 800 titles in a week, and has a cumulative multi-week total in excess of that. That's obviously too many.

800 titles is a daily-repeated weekly total. Their base rotation is around 400. Nice try.

Funny, you complain CBS-FM's is too large, now KRTH's. Geez....

 

[oldies76]

Simple... making you happy makes the other two and a half million cumers less happy.

Yeah....the CBS-FM cumers are less happy too and yet they have a very successful station?? Must be a darn good reason they are doing quite well.

This includes AM 950 out of Denver too!

Goodnight.

 

[davideduardo]

800 titles is a daily-repeated weekly total. Their base rotation is around 400. Nice try.

You can't play 800 songs in a day. Average hours might be 11 or 12 songs, for a daily total of around 300 spins.

The term "base rotation" a) does not exist and b) makes no sense. All stations divide the library into categories and even subcategories precisely so different songs will play more or less, usually based on the appeal of each one today. The idea is to build a set of gears with different numbers of teeth... like in a Swiss watch... each one rotating at a different speed, and creating nearly infinite combinations of songs for every hour and sweep.

The fact is that KRTH plays about 1500 titles over a 12 week review, while each 7 day period is in the 750 to 775 range consistently, save Christmas where the shorter list of seasonal songs made the weekly count go down a bit.

[/quote]
Funny, you complain CBS-FM's is too large, now KRTH's. Geez....[/quote]

As I said, different markets. LA has radically different lifestyles and ethnicities. For the LA market, I believe KRTH will need to do some futher adjustments on the older stuff, and perhaps look at including more Hispanics in the tests they do.

 

[surfdude]

David is very patient in trying to explain how things actually work. He has the knowledge and experience
to back it up. I do too.

And, I know for a fact that with Oldies, Classic Hits, and Classic Rock -
a shorter playlist of the right songs always performs better in the ratings.

There's no disputing it.

 

[calguy]

David is very patient in trying to explain how things actually work. He has the knowledge and experience
to back it up. I do too.

And, I know for a fact that with Oldies, Classic Hits, and Classic Rock -
a shorter playlist of the right songs always performs better in the ratings.

There's no disputing it.

All true. It's best to have the best on air library you can assemble being carefully rotated. However, you can give the appearance of a larger playlist through special features. KRTH does this quite a bit, mainly on the weekends. It's all smoke & mirrors people.

 

[briancraig]

But doesn't KRTH have better ratings now with the bigger playlist of Jhani Kaye than they did when they were playing the ultra tight list under Jay Coffey?

 

[calguy]

But doesn't KRTH have better ratings now with the bigger playlist of Jhani Kaye than they did when they were playing the ultra tight list under Jay Coffey?

Yes, Kaye expanded the playlist, but it's still a tight rotation. Just not as tight as before. There's a lot more "management" of the library than before as well.

 

[radioresearcher]

WCBS-FM wins because of their lack of competition. There is no Adult Hits (JACK) station, no Rhythmic Oldies station (KHHT), and only one real 70's based rock station (WAXQ).

Not to mention the fact the market is much less ethnic than Los Angeles. With that said, CBS-FM - in its newest incarnation has moved the station a bit younger too.

KRTH was 11th 25-54 this month... that is the demo that matters. The 6+ beauty contest means nothing.

 

[calguy]

Well one thing that KRTH can boast about is simply how good it sounds. They are a continuation of the Drake legacy and they do it right. I'm not in love with every personality they have, but they're solid during the day and they certainly know how to do radio. It's why KOST sounded good all these years and thankfully they have enough people still there that know how to do it no matter how hard CC tries to screw it up, and they're certainly messing with the recipe lately.

 

[davideduardo]

But doesn't KRTH have better ratings now with the bigger playlist of Jhani Kaye than they did when they were playing the ultra tight list under Jay Coffey?

That is hard to tell, as the changes in KRTH were implemented in what amounts to a short period of time prior to the PPM beginning: the PPM favors stations with loads of P2 and P3 listeners while the diary did not. So there is no way to compare diary with PPM numbers.

 

[oldies76]

Well one thing that KRTH can boast about is simply how good it sounds.

And tell me that their "Top 101" party songs countdown they just aired, is just a re-grouping of the stuff they play every week, every month anyways. Looking at the list on the KRTH page, nothing really new here. Do you think that James Brown "I Feel Good", should be ranked at #2 out of 101 "Party" songs or should "Brown-Eyed Girl" be ranked #27? Should this even be on a list of party songs...for pete's sake??

They play this stuff to death as it is.....

Like I said nothing special at all, just a re-group!

Why can't we ever hear something totally new, something truely spectacular, something totally creative on this station?? There are lots of leftout songs were talking about here...geez! Come on Kaye..

 

[calguy]

Well one thing that KRTH can boast about is simply how good it sounds.

And tell me that their "Top 101" party songs countdown they just aired, is just a re-grouping of the stuff they play every week, every month anyways. Looking at the list on the KRTH page, nothing really new here. Do you think that James Brown "I Feel Good", should be ranked at #2 out of 101 "Party" songs or should "Brown-Eyed Girl" be ranked #27? Should this even be on a list of party songs...for pete's sake??

They play this stuff to death as it is.....

Like I said nothing special at all, just a re-group!

Why can't we ever hear something totally new, something truely spectacular, something totally creative on this station?? There are lots of leftout songs were talking about here...geez! Come on Kaye..

Hey, all I said is that they sound good. Truth be told, there will always be left out songs on KRTH, and every other station as well. It's radio, not a juke box, and even a juke box can only hold so many songs. You really need to listen to something else once in a while. If you listen all day, every day it's gonna get stale. Compared to the old pre 2006 KRTH, this KRTH sounds great. Kaye's only made a few miscues, like hiring his buddy Escandon and going voice tracked overnights.

By the way, if you want something "new" you'll need to listen to a station that plays currents.

Perhaps listening to WCBS via the internet would be a good idea so you get a broader variety coupled with KRTH. As for James Brown's "I Feel Good" ranking at #2 or the overplayed "Brown-Eyed Girl" at #27 I can only think that they made it all up using their AMT research as a starting point.

You will never-NEVER hear something totally new, something truly spectacular on this station because it's an OLDIES STATION!!! As for something totally creative, that won't be music, it'll be contesting or imaging and they can only do so much with what their budgets are now days. No one spends much money anymore, they just trade out. That means no more huge cash giveaways or really creative contests. But luckily it still means trips and merchandise. As for imaging, not a lot there anymore either. I know of a guy at CC Burbank who is one of the most creative guys around, but he's not allowed to be that way anymore, and it's that way all over now. But I give KRTH props for not doing badly in that area.

Complain all you want, be a broken record, but nobody at KRTH is going to pay much attention as you're in the minority and they're in the business of catering to the majority. Then again with their 24-54 ratings that majority isn't so big...

 

[8638]

I wonder if part of KRTH's current success is because it's become so ubiquitous, and benefits from the meters because of it. You hear the station all over the city in public places. I stayed in a mid-priced Glendale hotel a couple of years ago, and K-Earth was played in the lobby, and in the elevators.

I don't remember ever hearing a Classic Hits station played so often and so publicly in other cities I've visited. Maybe WCBS-FM, but I haven't been to New York for a few years.

I'm not an Angeleno, just an East Coast guy who visits regularly. And what you say is true. You hear KRTH everywhere. And I freely confess, the first thing I do once I pick up a rental car at LAX is dial up 101.1. There is an energy on this station, that one does not hear too much anymore on the radio. I'm not a professional radio guy, for which I'm grateful; some of the egos on this board would need all of San Bernardino County to contain them! I'm a listener, which, along with all of the rest of us listeners, contributes to a station's bottom line.

Kudos to K-Earth 101! Thirty-eight years and growing!

 

[8638]

A 50 year old was 10 in 1970... most of the 60s and early 70s' music is meaningless to that demo.

Disagree.... At 10 years, the hits of the mid-late 70's were very appealing to me then, as they are now.
And remember, many ten year olds do remember the music that was popular back then, now!

How can you come to that conclusion?? Or you just threw that out?

Young kids and teens heyday for music, in their youth years, would be from about age 8-9, to about 17.

So a young 8 year old in 1968 to being 17 in 1977, would remember "their" hits as most likely late 60's to mid 70's.

How dare you disagree with an expert?

I'm one month shy of 50 (where did all those years go?). I freely admit that I was an early adopter of radio and music, but by the time I was 10, all of my friends listened to the radio. Fond memories of recess in 6th Grade (1972) playing kickball and listening to WIBG or WFIL (Philly top 40 powerhouses of the day) through a radio, using a traffic cone as a sort of megaphone to amplify the sound! And, one day after lunch, we actually blew out the speaker of the tabletop record player we had in the classroom, blasting some current hit of the day! The teacher was actually pretty cool about it. We chipped in and she took me to Radio Shack to buy a replacement, which I installed!

I'll always love the radio, but it's not what it once was. Maybe it's all the experts? Or the crappy contemporary music? One thing I can say, I don't see kids listening to the radio much anymore. It's all iPods and such.

 

[airpab]

KRTH is kind of an anomoly in L.A. radio...as is KOOL in PHX (hear it everywhere in PHX too)

-Great, building penetrating signal (probably the best all-around FM signal in SoCal)
-Been around forever, so people are very familiar with it.
-Plays music everyone can listen to (and for the most part, agree on) in office, home or car.
-Has a great, Top 40 of yester-year sound with the jingles and presentation. (though I think the DJ's are a little too "programmed")

Maybe these are at least some of the reasons why you hear it so much in public places and why it does so well in L.A and O.C.

But the bottom line is the music. Kaye & Co. have found a music mix that works for SoCal listeners...and they aren't afraid to tweak, add and surprise, when/where necessary.

Translates to an easy sell for Ad Reps selling ad time for the station!

 

[davideduardo]

Translates to an easy sell for Ad Reps selling ad time for the station!

Not really. There are no easy sells in LA, and it's even less easy if you are #11 as KRTH is.

Ad to the other points, KRTH has one of the better but definitely not the best FM signals. There are 6 or 7 stations up on Wilson that are comparable or better.

As to playing music "everyone likes" keep in mind that true the cume would be 13,000,000. Most people under 35 or so don't like it as they don't relate to the music. Urban, country, hip hop fans don't like it. Most classical listeners don't either. Most Spanish dominant listeners don't like it. A majority of English dominant Hispanics don't. And so on...

For some reason there is this idea that anyone who was alive when the Beatles had current records... or for the next decade or so... is going to like old Top 40 songs. An awful lot of people never liked those songs, and lots more are tired of them or have moved on since then. And most people were not even alive then, either.

So, if you don't like the music, you probably are not familiar with the station, either. And having a "great Top 40 sound" is not the magnet you suggest. Why would emulating a format execution style that passed on to that great tuner in the sky decades ago be so attractive today? If I wanted tp hear pukers and pot whippers, I have airchecks of some really good pukers I can pull up on the computer!