KRTH IS NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE THEY PLAY THE BEST MUSIC !!

[davideduardo]

I also think DE is too conservative with his 300 songs playlists

Ultra conservative....oldies and classic hits stations are not even close to this "300" song level anymore...

I hope you guys are happy tossing around a ball I did not put into play. I said that I believed that a station should play as many songs as were in a highly positive score range in music testing. 300 is not a good level, but that is an exaggeration of how low the station was previously, too.

I think KRTH plays too many 60's songs, and that is why it is so low in 25-54 compared to better stations like KOOL and KCBS. And, of those 60's songs, I don't think many would hold up under a simple factor analysis run. The station leans a bit too AC.

The fact is that with PPM listening times, somewhere in the 650 to 750 range is likely to be optimum, but there may be an issue finding that many songs in LA due to the "I'm not from here" and the ethnicity issuses.

look at CBS-FM, look at KOOL 105.1,

Good stations, good 25-54 results. Right songs, but easier markets too.

or the Walrus,

Not that good a station.

or AM oldies 950 out of Denver,

A really bad station.

WLNG..etc..

WLNG is a community station in a market of just over 100,000 persons. It's not even, principally, a music station.

D.E. it's 2010 now, not 1995...classic hits stations are beyond this limitation (ultra-tight playlists) that you are trying to impose.

Actually, we are in 2010 and not 2008... we have the PPM, it shows much lower listening times (TSL) so we know that weak songs have no place on the radio.

 

[oldies76]

A really bad station.

Have you even heard this station? KRWZ 950?
It's AM, but it's ranked #16 of all of Denver-Boulder stations (as of Nov. 2009) 3.5 share among 2.3 million, up from 2.5 in September 2009..... Not bad for AM...for a major market area.

How could you call this station, bad??

This station has great giveaways, like $3000 jukeboxes and a vacation to Memphis, Tn for Elvis's tribute this month. And it has a lunch time request show, where ACTUAL requests and songs are played.

Their playlist is very large too..all 50's and 60's.

People love their oldies DE.

 

[davideduardo]

Have you even heard this station? KRWZ 950?
It's AM, but it's ranked #16 of all of Denver-Boulder stations

It's 27th in 25-54 using the average of October, November and December's 3 books.

(as of Nov. 2009) 3.5 share among 2.3 million, up from 2.5 in September 2009..... Not bad for AM...for a major market area.

27th is not bad? There is an AM billing #1 in that market, approximately 15 times higher than KRWZ.

How could you call this station, bad??

How can I call a station that is 27th in 25-54 be called good in any way? And a station that bills less than 10% of what the top biller brings in is not exactly "good" as a business.

People love their oldies DE.

No, a few people like that music. The rest don't.

The Spanish language FM, KXPK, has ratings that rank it #2 in 25-54. Does that mean that everyone in Denver suddenly likes Mexican regional music? No, it just means that of the highly fragmented market, more people... vastly more... in the sales demo like that music than like 50's and 60's oldies, which means that nearly nobody likes the oldies station.

 

[briancraig]

We talk about the fragmentation of radio today, but in a market with as many stations as L.A. could you ever really say any station was mass appeal?

In the Fall of 1970, when we would consider KHJ still at its top 40 peak, they had a 7.5 share meaning that 92.5% of all listeners were tuned to another station.

David, you talk about pukers and pot whippers from the past, but do you really think that today's radio "talent" is as good as Charlie Tuna, Mark Elliott, Charlie Van Dyke, Gary Owens, Robert W. Morgan, etc.?

 

[oldies76]

The Spanish language FM, KXPK, has ratings that rank it #2 in 25-54. Does that mean that everyone in Denver suddenly likes Mexican regional music? No, it just means that of the highly fragmented market, more people... vastly more... in the sales demo like that music than like 50's and 60's oldies, which means that nearly nobody likes the oldies station.

Among a population of 2.34 million, a cume of 148,600 or about 6.4% of the pop. listen to this station on a regular basis..how can 6.4% be "nearly nobody"? That is quite significant for an AM oldies.

Even the #2 overall station ranked is News/Talk KOA, another AM station at a 5.6 for December, 523,000 cume or 22.7% of the pop.

 

[oldies76]

It's 27th in 25-54 using the average of October, November and December's 3 books.

Overall, this station ranks 16th for December. How do you get 27th if some of the higher ranking stations higher than "27" are not aimed at 25-54?

If anything, you take out the CHR's, the news / talk stations, it would bring up KRWZ to a higher position in this specific demo and it would rank #2 behind KXKL (Kool 105.1) for classic hits and oldies in 25-54.

I'd also bet that a lot of 55+ are tuning in, due the frequent spin of 50's classics during the day.

They obviously have some $$$, if they can do nice giveaways every month.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you talk about pukers and pot whippers from the past, but do you really think that today's radio "talent" is as good as Charlie Tuna, Mark Elliott, Charlie Van Dyke, Gary Owens, Robert W. Morgan, etc.?

Each was one of the top talents of several eras. Just as people like Seacrest, Big Boy, Carson Daly and so on are right for today. I do not think you can compare them, since we are talking about different times and lifestyles.

Some of the stuff we find hokey and old fashioned were hip and cool in the day. I loved Morgan and Van Dyke and Steele, but thought Owens was stilted and too MORish... but that's not an indictment of Owens but a reflection of what I personally enjoyed.

 

[davideduardo]

Among a population of 2.34 million, a cume of 148,600 or about 6.4% of the pop. listen to this station on a regular basis..how can 6.4% be "nearly nobody"? That is quite significant for an AM oldies.

The latest cume is 120,000 persons and that is about 5%, ranking the station 23rd overall... as an example, the top cuming station reaches over a third of the population.

Nearly all the curme is over 55, so the station has very little salable cume.

Even the #2 overall station ranked is News/Talk KOA, another AM station at a 5.6 for December, 523,000 cume or 22.7% of the pop.

So? KOA cumes 30% of the population during baseball season... and it is top 5 25-54 during the sports season. There is no comparison between a market leader and a station that is outside the top 20 in sales demos, billings, etc.

 

[davideduardo]

Overall, this station ranks 16th for December.

There is no demo called "Overall." You are talking about a rank in an age range that is useless, irrelevant and unused by stations or their customers.

How do you get 27th if some of the higher ranking stations higher than "27" are not aimed at 25-54?

I get 27th by looking at the 25-54 rank. In Arbitron.

If anything, you take out the CHR's,

CHR's are targeted at 18-44 women. KIIS in LA is often #1 or #2 in that demo and in 25-54 women in LA, and they are CHR, too.

the news / talk stations,

News talk stations are targeted 25-54, but they get, additionally, a lot of 55+. They get such huge overally numbers that there is plenty in the sales demos to bill well.

it would bring up KRWZ to a higher position in this specific demo and it would rank #2 behind KXKL (Kool 105.1) for classic hits and oldies in 25-54.

That, and Cindeerella, are wonderful fantasies. However, that station you are defending is ranked very low on 25-54 because, unlike KOA, it has all its listening over 55. KOA's content, particularly sports, is broad in appeal. 50's music has no other appeal than to people over 60.

I'd also bet that a lot of 55+ are tuning in, due the frequent spin of 50's classics during the day.

That is all they have, and that explains why they bill so little.

They obviously have some $$$, if they can do nice giveaways every month.

The owner is Lincoln Financial, a well funded and good broadcaster. Given that the "good" formats are on much better signals (KHOW and KOA for talk) or on FM (KKFN) Lincoln has made a good decision in at least putting on a format that will cover costs and maybe make a small profit.

Oh, remember that giveaways are, as often as not, traded out.

 

[davideduardo]

or the Walrus,

Not that good a station.

At the risk of seeming like I am talking with myself, I got some more detailed dataa on the Walrus and found that in the last few months the station has made a significant move upwards in 25-54. A quick look at MediaBase shows why insofar as music targeting, and it appears that the on air presentation is much improved over the diary days mix of anything that made the Whitburn book.

Interestingly, the sudden reversal of the fate of this station goes to show that properly targeted, executed and supervised, a poorly performing classic hits station can be moved into good sales demo position.

 

[cyberdad]

Overall, this station ranks 16th for December. How do you get 27th if some of the higher ranking stations higher than "27" are not aimed at 25-54?

If anything, you take out the CHR's, the news / talk stations, it would bring up KRWZ to a higher position in this specific demo and it would rank #2 behind KXKL (Kool 105.1) for classic hits and oldies in 25-54.

I'd also bet that a lot of 55+ are tuning in, due the frequent spin of 50's classics during the day.

They obviously have some $$$, if they can do nice giveaways every month.

I'd love to listen to it. I've also got more $$$ to spend than my "desirable demo" adult kids. But the reality of the business is that I wouldn't have more $$$ to spend than my kids if I had to go out and try to sell KRWZ for a living! And then there's that word "if"....unfortunately you CAN'T take out the CHR, news/talks, etc. That's like saying Colorado would be surrounded by prairie on all sides if it weren't for the mountains!

 

[airpab]

Will KRTH continue tweaking the music by slowly adding more 70's and 80's?

There are some great 60's tunes that Kaye is smart enough to retain and throw into the mix, but will KRTH go more the way of KOOL, The Walrus & KOLA?

Would that be enough to increase their 25-54 numbers and solidify their ratings standings?

DE-

Are you able to tell us what KOOL's, The Walrus & KOLA's 25-54 numbers are? They all seem to lean more 70's/80's?

 

[davideduardo]

Are you able to tell us what KOOL's, The Walrus & KOLA's 25-54 numbers are? They all seem to lean more 70's/80's?

All do far better in 25-54 rank than KRTH.

 

[oldies76]

Are you able to tell us what KOOL's, 25-54 numbers are? They all seem to lean more 70's/80's?

If you are referring to Denver's Kool 105 (KXKL 105.1), they rate at 4.1 for December 2009, cume is 555,800, or 24.1% of the Denver metro area population (about 2.3 million).

Ranked 9th among all stations.

 

[davideduardo]

If you are referring to Denver's Kool 105

No, he was referring to KOOL in all caps, which are the call letters of one of America's longest heritage gold based FMs.

(KXKL 105.1), they rate at 4.1 for December 2009, cume is 555,800, or 24.1% of the Denver metro area population (about 2.3 million).

Ranked 9th among all stations.

Kool in Denver ranked around 16th on the average in 25-54. KOOL, in Phoenx, ranks in the top 2 or 3 stations 25 54.

 

[landtuna]

Uh, between 96% and 97% of 18-34's in LA use radio.

Are those numbers typical of major markets or are they unique to L.A.? Perhaps because so much time is spent driving? Or ethnic makeup?

My 19-year old never listens to radio. Ever.

My 21, 23 and 34-year olds listen only while driving. Never at home.

Of course, we don't live in L.A.

 

[davideduardo]

Are those numbers typical of major markets or are they unique to L.A.? Perhaps because so much time is spent driving? Or ethnic makeup?

Pretty typical... and in-car listening is typically around 31%, give or take a percent, in all major markets except NY, where it's around 25% due to high use of public transit.

Anecdotal experiences are not good samples.

 

[almaniac27]

Uh, between 96% and 97% of 18-34's in LA use radio.

Are those numbers typical of major markets or are they unique to L.A.? Perhaps because so much time is spent driving? Or ethnic makeup?

My 19-year old never listens to radio. Ever.

My 21, 23 and 34-year olds listen only while driving. Never at home.

Of course, we don't live in L.A.

At this point, teenagers and twentysomethings do still listen to radio, and as David said, in large numbers. However, I still think radio's popularity is slowly starting to wane. Not everybody might be like landtuna's kids now, but over the next few decades that behavior will probably become more common. People on the cutting edge are starting to move on, and eventually the masses will too.

 

[oldies76]

Nice to hear "Welcome Back" on KRTH...have not heard this one in ages on KRTH....

Other notable songs in this 70's specialty that KRTH rarely plays, but were played today!!

Time Passages - Al Stewart
Afternoon Delight - Starland Vocal Band
Shake Your Booty - KC & Sunshine Band
Good Times - Chic
Boogie Nights - Heatwave
Mandy - Barry Manilow
Laughter in the Rain - Neil Sedaka
Freddie's Dead - Curtis Mayfield

 

[radioresearcher]

KRTH is #1 55+ - which is not the lucrative demo that advertisers want.

KRTH beating KIIS 6+ was because they won 55+.

If you just run Adults 18-54 (and throw out 6-17 and 55+) - the key radio advertiser demographics - KIIS was #1 and KRTH was #8 - and KIIS beat KRTH by 42%.

If you don't believe what we are telling you, why does KIIS nearly twice as much revenue as KRTH? If 6+ mattered, wouldn't the revenue be a lot closer.

Heck, even JACK does a lot more revenue than KRTH does.

Now, this doesn't take away from the good job Jhani and his team have done with KRTH overall.

But 6+ is a beauty pageant and KRTH was #1 for one month the entire year. KIIS has a direct competitor. How would KRTH do if another Oldies/Classic Hits station signed on and spent $2 million marketing itself. I doubt it would spend most of the year at #1 6+.