KRTH, KCBS-FM and Wikipedia

[kn3ick]

That would be a interesting change if KRTH-FM becomes Arrow 101.1. It actually may work. Alot of people that loves Classic Rock wants Arrow back in Los Angeles and Orange County. I just don't see what CBS would chose to change 101.1 to Arrow. I think CBS should bring Arrow to 93.1. On 93.1 HD Channel#2 should be Jack FM. KRTH should stay on 101.1. I guess we all will see what CBS will do huh?

Nick, KN3ICK

 

[davideduardo]

That would be a interesting change if KRTH-FM becomes Arrow 101.1. It actually may work. Alot of people that loves Classic Rock wants Arrow back in Los Angeles and Orange County. I just don't see what CBS would chose to change 101.1 to Arrow. I think CBS should bring Arrow to 93.1. On 93.1 HD Channel#2 should be Jack FM. KRTH should stay on 101.1. I guess we all will see what CBS will do huh?

Neither thing is likely to happen. First, KCBS-FM bills almost exactly double what KRTH does, and is the top rated English FM in the LA market (LA and OC are the metro). Second, Arrow was a D-O-G in it's later years, with billings just over half of what they are doing now... plus the Jack and Arrow formats overlap, so neither would win anyway.

I can just see putting the #4 biler in LA on an HD channel. Please.

 

[calguy]

You're right...Increased ratings and broader playlists go hand in hand. A playlist even bigger than it currently is (like CBS-FM's) would...think of the potential here. KRTH is much better than it used to be (1990's), no doubt in my mind, but it can cut down on the repetition and add more songs and hits and expand it's specialties to feature these "lost oldies".

Yes, you could cut down on repetition, but increasing your playlist isn't what an experienced programmer who worked from the 1970's on would do. One of the keys to the successes of Mike Phillips at his many stops was a "tighter" playlist. I'll bet that even the current PD at KRTH knows that.

If you ask me the real key would be to vigorously maintain the on-air library by constantly rotating songs in & out which is what I seem to be hearing presently at KRTH. But hey, I must be wrong about increased ratings for KRTH because no matter what I've read KRTH actually dropped numbers between 2005 & 2008 according to David E. who in an earlier post noted a drop between Winter 2005 25-54 with a 3.0 to Winter 2008 25-54 with 2.8. I wasn't looking at those demos however, but was referring more to market position based on 12+, but perhaps I was wrong there as well. Maybe David knows those numbers.

It's funny but I seem to remember KRTH getting good results from the way Mike Phillips initially programmed. My opinion is that the problem was that there was no change over the years and by the time he retired that tight playlist of overly researched songs wasn't working. I think that it stopped working because Phillips’ way of doing it works better when you play currents as well. When you're doing an oldies format you don't have that fresh product coming in.

You must grant however that KRTH today sounds a lot better musically than it did when Jay Coffey was PD. I'll bet people in San Francisco would love for KFRC-FM to sound as good as K-Earth, but there are other reason's besides music that make for that better sound.

 

[davideduardo]

If you ask me the real key would be to vigorously maintain the on-air library by constantly rotating songs in & out which is what I seem to be hearing presently at KRTH. But hey, I must be wrong about increased ratings for KRTH because no matter what I've read KRTH actually dropped numbers between 2005 & 2008 according to David E. who in an earlier post noted a drop between Winter 2005 25-54 with a 3.0 to Winter 2008 25-54 with 2.8. I wasn't looking at those demos however, but was referring more to market position based on 12+, but perhaps I was wrong there as well. Maybe David knows those numbers.

They are up a bit in 12+, but that is meaningless since nobody buys 12+. They benchmark is 25-54 or 18-49 today, and KRTH is basically static or up a tad in some books compared with pre-2006 numbers. I personally think Jhani Kaye has done a marvelous job in a market where now 70% or more of the population is ethnic or first generation immigrants from places like Persia and Russia. Staying the same is a major improvement over the erosion KRTH was going through in 25-54 due to the maturation of the audience and the too-old songs they were playing.

It's funny but I seem to remember KRTH getting good results from the way Mike Phillips initially programmed. My opinion is that the problem was that there was no change over the years and by the time he retired that tight playlist of overly researched songs wasn't working.

There is no such thing as being over researched. The more often you test more songs with listeners, the better your list will be.

What hurt KRTH was the ageing of the core... and the fact that the earlierr 60's stuff was not removed on time, and the 70's and early 80's not added. The station became more 55+ than 25-54 and sales plumetted.

I think that it stopped working because Phillips’ way of doing it works better when you play currents as well. When you're doing an oldies format you don't have that fresh product coming in.

There are no new oldies. Only a change in generation will refresh such a station, but it means getting rid of the older stuff too.

 

[AnimatronicAbeLincoln]

Michael Scott from The Office:

"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

 

[Garrett]

Could CBS be that dumb and clue-less to even think about touching KRTH?

It seems to me that if they did, they would be ignoring the PR nightmare that happened in NYC with WCBS-FM. I think the stuff on Wikipedia regarding this is total garbage.

 

[calguy]

It's funny but I seem to remember KRTH getting good results from the way Mike Phillips initially programmed. My opinion is that the problem was that there was no change over the years and by the time he retired that tight playlist of overly researched songs wasn't working.

There is no such thing as being over researched. The more often you test more songs with listeners, the better your list will be.

What hurt KRTH was the ageing of the core... and the fact that the earlierr 60's stuff was not removed on time, and the 70's and early 80's not added. The station became more 55+ than 25-54 and sales plumetted.

You're right about research of course. It was a poor choice of words on my part. What I should have said was "overplayed songs", because with such a tight playlist they burned them out. Tight playlists do work, but with oldies, unlike current based Top 40 you have to do weekly maintenance to keep those songs from burning too much. Actually it doesn't hurt to play close attention to your rotations with any format.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Kaye romised that he would decrease repetition while freshening and updating the library with material from the eighties and nineties, and he has done so.

I don't know if KRTH will ever have the 900-1200 song library which Kevin Weatherly has to play with at JACK-FM, but at least it sounds much better than it did when Mike Phillips was there, even in the overly cautious, risk-averse world of today's radio.

 

[oldies76]

Marv-L.A. Kaye promised that he would decrease repetition while freshening and updating the library with material from the eighties and nineties, and he has done so.

K-Earth plays 90's??

 

[calguy]

Marv-L.A. Kaye promised that he would decrease repetition while freshening and updating the library with material from the eighties and nineties, and he has done so.

K-Earth plays 90's??

I do recall him playing "I could fall in love" by Selena for a while, but can't recall any other 90's songs since.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

The only nineties song I've heard on KRTH was 1999's 'Smooth'.

Some eighties tunes which have been added would include Aretha's 'Freeway Of Love' (1985) and "Kokomo' by the Beach Boys from the 1988 soundtrack to 'Cocktail', and a song which KOLA has been playing for years.

 

[scooty430]

What is better?

1) To try and compete with a bunch of other stations all playing somewhat similar music to a similar demo (MyFM, The Sound, 98.7, Movin, even JACK somewhat...)

2) Or to be the ONLY outlet offering a timeless, heritage sound with broad appeal.

I'd go with the latter.

Instead of trying to make K-Earth contempoary, they need to take what they have and make it more compelling...

- turn people ON to the 50s and 60s music - don't just can it. Thinking that only old farts will like this music is so narrow-minded. Think of the Beatles: very popular amongst teenage girls right now - just because of a recent movie. Good music is timeless! With 50s-80s as a range, you have WAY less chance for burnout, and more timeless classics to draw from.
- get some meaningful DJs on there like Charlie Tuna who are fun to listen to.
- stop playing the same freakin' songs and being so boring. You're losing the audience out of boredom. Yes, Jhani Kaye has improved things, maintained the station's "sound," and livened it up. But it hasn't been nearly enough.
- Give the station some personality and soul so people feel connected to it. Make it more than a jukebox of safe recognizable songs. That product is available elsewhere.

if CBS were smart, they'd think of their radio stations as a portfolio. If that portfolio is all the same (a "wall of women") you're really wasting your resources. K-Earth has the market cornered on one niche: OLDIES. Be happy that it is fairly reliable. OK, some people are older. Get some Claritin and Geritol ads on there! Develop other stations to serve the needs of younger people, or those that don't like K-Earth's stuff.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Scooty what movie are you referring to featuring Beatles music?

Would be nice for KRTH to insert just once per hour a gem prior to '64. Nowadays even playing something as germane as Walk Don't Run would be an Oh Wow song. But playing the wrong 70s song i.e. Billy Don't Be a Hero would be an Oh God song.

 

[ocer]

"That would be a interesting change if KRTH-FM becomes Arrow 101.1. It actually may work. Alot of people that loves Classic Rock wants Arrow back in Los Angeles and Orange County."

Why when there's already 95.5 KLOS? Were Arrow and KLOS really that different?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Why when there's already 95.5 KLOS? Were Arrow and KLOS really that different?

Arrow played classic rock. KLOS played Classic Rock That Really Rocked ;D

 

[MusicMaestro]

What is better?

1) To try and compete with a bunch of other stations all playing somewhat similar music to a similar demo (MyFM, The Sound, 98.7, Movin, even JACK somewhat...)

2) Or to be the ONLY outlet offering a timeless, heritage sound with broad appeal.

I'd go with the latter.

Instead of trying to make K-Earth contempoary, they need to take what they have and make it more compelling...

- turn people ON to the 50s and 60s music - don't just can it. Thinking that only old farts will like this music is so narrow-minded. Think of the Beatles: very popular amongst teenage girls right now - just because of a recent movie. Good music is timeless! With 50s-80s as a range, you have WAY less chance for burnout, and more timeless classics to draw from.
- get some meaningful DJs on there like Charlie Tuna who are fun to listen to.
- stop playing the same freakin' songs and being so boring. You're losing the audience out of boredom. Yes, Jhani Kaye has improved things, maintained the station's "sound," and livened it up. But it hasn't been nearly enough.
- Give the station some personality and soul so people feel connected to it. Make it more than a jukebox of safe recognizable songs. That product is available elsewhere.

if CBS were smart, they'd think of their radio stations as a portfolio. If that portfolio is all the same (a "wall of women") you're really wasting your resources. K-Earth has the market cornered on one niche: OLDIES. Be happy that it is fairly reliable. OK, some people are older. Get some Claritin and Geritol ads on there! Develop other stations to serve the needs of younger people, or those that don't like K-Earth's stuff.

RIGHT ON, SCOTTY!!!!!! ;D ;D
I'm happy to hear that someone else gets it!!! The King, The Platters, Connie Francis, Rick Nelson, Chubby Checker, Patsy Cline, Buddy Holly, etc. should be exposed to all generations, not just ours! (besides, rock n' roll HAD to start somewhere, let the folks from the 80's, & 90's listen to the artists that paved the way, they might LEARN something about good music along the way! )

 

[radio124]

This weekend KRTH is doing a Summer Hits Weekend featuring lots of songs that are not on the regular playlist.

 

[RicoGregg]

Scooty what movie are you referring to featuring Beatles music?

Would be nice for KRTH to insert just once per hour a gem prior to '64. Nowadays even playing something as germane as Walk Don't Run would be an Oh Wow song. But playing the wrong 70s song i.e. Billy Don't Be a Hero would be an Oh God song.

The movie Scooty was referring to was "Across The Universe", which was just recently released on DVD. It did moderately well at the box office. It got mixed reviews.

Billy, Don't Be a Hero always caused me to change stations in seconds flat.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Probably because 1974 was the worst year I can remember for top 40 radio encompassing any year between 1961 and 1990.

Other super-stinkers from that abysmal year would include 'Seasons In The Sun', 'The Night Chicago Died', You're Having My Baby, and 'Kung Fu Fighting'.

Gotta toss in Blue Swede's hysterical remake of 'Hooked On A Feeling' (OOOGA chaga OOOGA OOOGA OOOGA chaga!!!

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Probably because 1974 was the worst year I can remember for top 40 radio encompassing any year between 1961 and 1990.

Other super-stinkers from that abysmal year would include 'Seasons In The Sun', 'The Night Chicago Died', You're Having My Baby, and 'Kung Fu Fighting'.

Gotta toss in Blue Swede's hysterical remake of 'Hooked On A Feeling' (OOOGA chaga OOOGA OOOGA OOOGA chaga!!!

OMG Marv I think all of those made #1 on the natl charts....