KRTH Labor Day Special......The way it was

[oldies76]

Well, it's that time of year again. K-Earth 101 airs it's Southern California tradition beginning Friday at noon and ending late on Labor Day Monday. It's the Number One Music Weekend that aired in the 1980's. It was that sort of specialty that one could look forward to on a yearly basis, it was that good!

Yes it's been a long, long time since this countdown aired last, but it shows how diverse KRTH used to be, back in the good days of radio!


http://crl.ucsd.edu/~buff/krth/

In fact, the weekend before Labor Day, KRTH played the "Runner's Up of Classic Rock and Roll Weekend" special, featuring the songs that peaked at #2 in Southern California.

The link above, shows the #1 songs in Southern California, based on the old KFWB, KHJ and KRTH radio surveys.

Gosh, I wish KRTH would play this countdown once again.......It was a blast!

 

[davideduardo]

Gosh, I wish KRTH would play this countdown once again.......It was a blast!

Well, they won't. KRTH is struggling to maintain a salable position in 25-54, and to do that, they have to play the songs that at least the older portion of the demo grew up on... that means mostly songs from about 1972 and later, with a smattering of songs from the prior years that got so much "gold" exposure that they are liked and familiar to the demo they want to attract.

Songs don't get played because they charted. They get played because listeners want to hear them and like to hear them today. Those charts you refer to were so jaundiced that they are irrelevant today... no matter how good the station that produced them "then" might have been.

Station charts were a reflection of what the station wanted to present to the listener, based on the songs that did them the most good. They were part of an at least partial fantasy world.

And, speaking of fantasy worlds, thinking that a big-signaled major market station would play any of that irrelevant music today is the definition of a fantasy...

 

[oldies76]

Songs don't get played because they charted. They get played because listeners want to hear them and like to hear them today. Those charts you refer to were so jaundiced that they are irrelevant today... no matter how good the station that produced them "then" might have been.

Except for stations that continue to use them today, like WCBS and their Sunday Night Countdowns.....the top 25 for August 1972 & 1982 were played tonight using chart data. Not much of a fantasy, isn't it?

You're right, it's highly unlikely KRTH will ever play that special again, but they did years ago and I am only presenting it as a nostalgic post, since Labor Day Weekend is around the corner.

btw, even if KRTH played an abridged version, say 1965 onward, many listeners would still enjoy it today. Radio has to have variety to be successful, not the same ole same ole. Maybe that's why KRTH is struggling today in 25-54, as you mentioned. It's very likely these listeners want other music they recall from their youth, but never hear it on a "classic hits" station.

 

[davideduardo]

Except for stations that continue to use them today, like WCBS and their Sunday Night Countdowns.....the top 25 for August 1972 & 1982 were played tonight using chart data. Not much of a fantasy, isn't it?

They are illusions, nonetheless.

A 1972 chart could be somewhat realistic in measuring one aspect of music preferences... the sale of 45's. But since singles sales for any given song represented only a tiny percentage of the population, they don't necessarily represent accurately the taste of "the rest of us." Polls and surveys look at a cross section of a group; there is no metric for analyzing the likes of non-buyers of a song as it was not done.

By around 1975, some of the best CHRs like KRIZ and KCBQ and WHYI were using phone call out research to determine song tastes... and most stations shortly after quit looking at singles sales.

A 1982 chart is even less "real." The reasons include the greater decline in 45 sales and the fact that radio stations paid essentially no attention to record sales any more... except as a "control factor" just like requests, which many stations had ceased even tabulating.

... if KRTH played an abridged version, say 1965 onward, many listeners would still enjoy it today. Radio has to have variety to be successful, not the same ole same ole. Maybe that's why KRTH is struggling today in 25-54, as you mentioned. It's very likely these listeners want other music they recall from their youth, but never hear it on a "classic hits" station.

"Variety" does not mean playing songs your listeners don't like. A person who is 55 now... and out of the sales demos... was about 12 in 1970. With music taste being formed in early adolescence, the songs that matter are really those from about '72 or '72 on. Yes, there are some pre-'72 songs that were ubiquitous then and thus heard as "currents" by young listeners to Top 40 stations that played gold, but there are not many of those.

Playing "low charting" or pre-70's songs does not help a station with 25-54 listening.

 

[DAVEedwards]

"They are illusions, nonetheless. "

RE: The KRTH Number One Weekend.

I looked closely at that list, over half of those songs, I would prefer to NEVER HEAR AGAIN, although they WERE number one, at one time.

(Drum Roll) NUMBER ONE THEN, is not number one------NOW.

D.EWARDS

 

[oldies76]

"They are illusions, nonetheless. "

RE: The KRTH Number One Weekend.

I looked closely at that list, over half of those songs, I would prefer to NEVER HEAR AGAIN, although they WERE number one, at one time.
(Drum Roll) NUMBER ONE THEN, is not number one------NOW.

Well, the same would apply the last time it aired in the late 80's, what's the difference? It aired year after year and the only reason it was discontinued, was a questionable PD change and licensing issues after 1988, otherwise it could have aired well into the 90's, especially with the disco comeback in the mid 90's (remember Disco Saturday Night on KBIG 104 back then?)

 

[oldies76]

They are illusions, nonetheless.

Actually hearing a Sunday night special online from NYC, isn't an "illusion". It's a fact and reality today, in 2012. Nice try though.......

 

[surfdude]

CBS-FM could air Polka music on Sunday night and it wouldn't hurt their ratings. Listening levels are very
low on Sunday nights.

Oldies music libraries have changed dramatically over the last ten years. Motown music for example does not test very
high anymore. Most of the Sixties and Early Seventies songs don't have much appeal, unless they were featured in a blockbuster mover from the 80s or 90s.

oldies76 - time marches on, and while I love those old songs, too, we're in the minority. You can't program a station for "oldies freaks". Make friends with Pandora, create stations around you're favorite old artists.

You may not agree with DE, but he's right, I've seen it first hand in research and how it affected my Oldies station. I was the programmer.

All that said, K-EARTH does a fantastic job holding on to some of their roots, while trying to get the ratings that matter.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually hearing a Sunday night special online from NYC, isn't an "illusion". It's a fact and reality today, in 2012. Nice try though.......

Let's see... 94% of 25-54's cume weekly. 75% use it during PM drive. 19% ever use radio from 7 to Midnight on Sunday.

As to CBS FM, about 1.8 million 25-54's on average cume it weekly. Less than 100 thousand cume it on Sunday evening.

As was mentioned, they could play the songs backwards on Sunday evening... or play all MC Hammer songs... and get the same numbers.

The CBS-FM stream does not ordinarily make the book as far back as I cared to look (and within periods where Arbitron did not limit data access).

 

[davideduardo]

CBS-FM could air Polka music on Sunday night and it wouldn't hurt their ratings.

That's funny.

It reminds me of the cases in the diary where a station might be off the air and still got ratings due to "memory discrepancies" of diarykeepers.

 

[LKellerIII]

(Drum Roll) NUMBER ONE THEN, is not number one------NOW.

D.EWARDS

Voice over by Bill Drake no doubt.

Seasons in the Sun by Terry Jacks - #1 for 3 weeks in 1974

Alone Again, Naturally by Gilbert O'Sullivan - #1 for 6 weeks in 1972, and one of the Top 5 songs of the decade, according to American Top 40.

Honey by Bobby Goldsboro - #1 for 5 weeks in 1968.

One Tin Soldier (The Legend of Billy Jack) by Coven - the theme from a very popular low budget film - #1 in 1971 for weeks.

Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing any of these sappy and hokey songs on the radio again - one time anyway - kind of the same way you watch a corny 50s era TV show to laugh at it. But I can certainly understand how they would cause listeners to tune out.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

But will KRTH still play a #10 song from 1967?

The all-important Bang 545.

 

[oldies76]

But will KRTH still play a #10 song from 1967?

The all-important Bang 545.

Interesting that it reached #2 in L.A. on the Boss 30 in '67.

 

[DrAkbar]

But will KRTH still play a #10 song from 1967?

The all-important Bang 545.

Oh, you mean this song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GGyaVCkPdg And the beat goes on.. Ninety Three Kay H Jayyyy ;D

 

[briancraig]

David, could you expound a little bit more on what you mean when you say the charts were not "real."

While I know the Hot 100 was a mix of radio airplay and singles sales, wasn't the Radio and Records charts based completely on radio airplay? If so, wouldn't their charts from say 1982 be an accurate reflection on what radio was playing in any given week.

While I know there has always been music biz tampering with the charts like paper adds, chart payola etc., I don't think there was enough of that to make the R & R charts of the era as discredited as you seem to be saying.

 

[michael hagerty]

David, could you expound a little bit more on what you mean when you say the charts were not "real."

While I know the Hot 100 was a mix of radio airplay and singles sales, wasn't the Radio and Records charts based completely on radio airplay? If so, wouldn't their charts from say 1982 be an accurate reflection on what radio was playing in any given week.

While I know there has always been music biz tampering with the charts like paper adds, chart payola etc., I don't think there was enough of that to make the R & R charts of the era as discredited as you seem to be saying.

Brian, I know you were asking David, but think of it this way:

If by 1982, singles sales were meaningless, then there were only two factors motivating the amount of spins a record got 30 years ago...call-out research and whatever (ahem) influence the record companies might have been able to exert over the stations via legitimate (contest sponsorship) and not-so-legitimate (outright payola) means.

So at best, the '82 charts showed what 12-34 year olds wanted to hear at that time...30 years ago.

At worst, it's hype.

 

[davideduardo]

If by 1982, singles sales were meaningless, then there were only two factors motivating the amount of spins a record got 30 years ago...call-out research and whatever (ahem) influence the record companies might have been able to exert over the stations via legitimate (contest sponsorship) and not-so-legitimate (outright payola) means.

So at best, the '82 charts showed what 12-34 year olds wanted to hear at that time...30 years ago.

At worst, it's hype.

Amen.

One additional thing that influenced charts was the ability of each CHR station's PD to determine how far to go with rhythmic (right after the disco era) and urban material on one side and with rock leaning material on the other. Even in markets with big ethnic populations, we saw stations leaning to the rock side or others leaning more urban and rhythmic.

So what was reported to the trades (which was not necessarily what was played or added) was "biased" by the lean of each station. For that reason, looking at the charts today requires one to think about whether a song was broadly played in hot rotation or just played by the rock leaning stations or just by the urban leaning ones.

And that's without getting into the record promoter arena. Where's Joe Isgro when you need him?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Isgro

 

[oldies76]

One additional thing that influenced charts was the ability of each CHR station's PD to determine how far to go with rhythmic (right after the disco era) and urban material on one side and with rock leaning material on the other. Even in markets with big ethnic populations, we saw stations leaning to the rock side or others leaning more urban and rhythmic.

So what was reported to the trades (which was not necessarily what was played or added) was "biased" by the lean of each station. For that reason, looking at the charts today requires one to think about whether a song was broadly played in hot rotation or just played by the rock leaning stations or just by the urban leaning ones.

And that's without getting into the record promoter arena. Where's Joe Isgro when you need him?

Ok, this is insider stuff....the general, average radio listener does not know all this mumbo jumbo about whether charts were fake, based on payola and illusional....etc..etc... they just tune in and listen. If "Hey Jude" was #1 in 1968 for 9 weeks, that's what we go by..It is, what it is....it can't be changed. It's accepted.

KRTH had their Labor Day special using legit radio surveys at that time. WCBS uses charts for it's countdowns today, and other stations use other data.....what's the big deal?? The point is that the public is hearing music in a specialty format (regardless of the source) and they're having fun with it. If they dislike a song, they either walk away or change the station. If they like what they are hearing, they keep it on longer. And the ones who are really into the mix, listen most of the weekend.... simple.

 

[davideduardo]

Ok, this is insider stuff....

We present the "insider" stuff to show you that blind adherence to charts is unhealthy to a radio station... and to show you why programmers want to know what songs are playable today, not what songs were played decades ago.

the general, average radio listener does not know all this mumbo jumbo about whether charts were fake, based on payola and illusional....etc..etc... they just tune in and listen.

If they knew... or cared... they would understand why "bad" songs get on the radio.

KRTH had their Labor Day special using legit radio surveys at that time. WCBS uses charts for it's countdowns today, and other stations use other data.....what's the big deal??

Specialty shows that do countdowns... or even the iconic AT40... are exceptions. They are exceptions and they usually run at times where audience availability is (or was back in diary day) very thin. Today, such specials are often used on holidays, when the PPM shows that radio usage is very thin.

And yes, such things are very useful tools, when used correctly. But you never hear them on a non-Holiday Monday to Friday in the critical 6 AM to 7 PM times. That's because the smaller "pull in" of such shows is exceeded by the huge "push away" that they produce among core listeners.

The point is that the public is hearing music in a specialty format (regardless of the source) and they're having fun with it. If they dislike a song, they either walk away or change the station. If they like what they are hearing, they keep it on longer. And the ones who are really into the mix, listen most of the weekend.... simple.

They don't listen "most of the weekend." Looking at past occasions of such programs under PPM, the average time spent listening to such shows over a three day weekend is just two to three hours.

 

[Groove1670]

Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing any of these sappy and hokey songs on the radio again - one time anyway

This is where the wonderful world of the net, and "P" come in handy for those who want to listen on the wild side.

Yes, I can hear in glorious Net stereo, Bruce Cockburn's Wonder Where The Lions Are?, Marty Balin - Atlanta Lady, Greg Guidry - Goin' down, and other great top 40 hits.

Now, if you are reading this post, you are saying...say what. I have made my point.

If you asked a 30 year old who Petula Clark, Skeeter Davis, Dave clark five, Ace, Manu Dibango, is well....

I remember Tony Camillo's Bazuka - Dynomite (Part 1) that is ;D

They know - Taio Cruz - Dynamite

I need to realize I am aging out of the demo soon