KRTH Top 500 Countdown

[Neel]

I think when it comes to tight playlists, it also matters if you are listening in the car or at work. I can see people wanting a familiar tight playlist while driving otherwise they might change the station if they aren't familiar with the music. However, at work, the bigger playlist works better when you are there for 8 hours and not constantly listening to every song.

Hence, back to the topic, I love streaming WCBS all day in the store versus KRTH, which gets old real fast. Maybe business-wise KRTH makes more sense, but seems like everyone here enjoys WCBS at work. They even comment "I haven't heard that song in a long time."

 

[AM FM listener]

I think when it comes to tight playlists, it also matters if you are listening in the car or at work. I can see people wanting a familiar tight playlist while driving otherwise they might change the station if they aren't familiar with the music. However, at work, the bigger playlist works better when you are there for 8 hours and not constantly listening to every song.

Hence, back to the topic, I love streaming WCBS all day in the store versus KRTH, which gets old real fast. Maybe business-wise KRTH makes more sense, but seems like everyone here enjoys WCBS at work. They even comment "I haven't heard that song in a long time."

Makes a lot of sense to me. Tighter playlists during drive times, extended playlist during mid-days. I hope someone reads your post and passes it along to Jhani.

 

[calguy]

I think when it comes to tight playlists, it also matters if you are listening in the car or at work. I can see people wanting a familiar tight playlist while driving otherwise they might change the station if they aren't familiar with the music. However, at work, the bigger playlist works better when you are there for 8 hours and not constantly listening to every song.

Hence, back to the topic, I love streaming WCBS all day in the store versus KRTH, which gets old real fast. Maybe business-wise KRTH makes more sense, but seems like everyone here enjoys WCBS at work. They even comment "I haven't heard that song in a long time."

Makes a lot of sense to me. Tighter playlists during drive times, extended playlist during mid-days. I hope someone reads your post and passes it along to Jhani.

Kind of doubt that Jhani Kaye is going to look to anonymous posters for programming ideas. He's been a PD since the mid 70's and I'm sure feels that he has all the answers he needs. Interesting concept though. Day-parting your playlist the way you suggest. However it's a trillion to one long shot that it would happen. Actually, with all of the hits that have come and gone over the years there's really no reason why you need such a tight playlist on an oldies station. Unless of course you take into account the fact that his station is kicking ass in the PPM. Personally I don’t have a problem with KRTH as I can’t listen to them for more than a few minutes on my daily commute to and from work. You know, we used to respond to complaints about radio stations with the line “that’s why there’s a dial. Don’t like it, change it to another station” but the only problem with that is that there are no head to head competitors in LA for the most part and certainly none for KRTH. At one time there were three oldies station in LA (KRTH, KRLA and KODJ/KCBS-FM) two or three soft AC’s depending on the year (KOST-KBIG-KXEZ-KLIT) and I could go on. The exceptions today are the several talk stations and sports talk stations and on FM we have KIIS vs. AMP and KROQ vs. KYSR. But that’s about it… Sad isn’t it?

 

[scooty430]

We're approaching July... I wonder if the rash of A to Z things will return, or if that was a brief bright spot in the sad monotony that is FM.

There is only one oldies station anyone needs: WLNG. Pretty much every song 55 up through the late 80s. Not 400 songs, or 500 songs, but 10,000 songs. And the jocks choose the tunes. Why go anywhere else?

 

[oldies76]

We're approaching July... I wonder if the rash of A to Z things will return, or if that was a brief bright spot in the sad monotony that is FM.

There is only one oldies station anyone needs: WLNG. Pretty much every song 55 up through the late 80s. Not 400 songs, or 500 songs, but 10,000 songs. And the jocks choose the tunes. Why go anywhere else?

It's seriously the way radio should be....period! 400 songs, such a joke! But since everything is business and not for the listener, we all get the overplayed stuff (for the most part). Try KDZA 1350 am out of Pueblo, Co. 1950's thru mid 70's, but will go deep on occasion. As for the A to Z, we can only hope. WLNG is a great model that all oldies and c/h stations should follow. Like I've always said and will continue to say, play the familiar hits, but mix in the others to create song and rotational variety. Also include these songs in nice weekend presentations or promotions. Such a simple concept that, unfortunately, others do not get...even after all these years!

When you shop in a grocery store..almost all the food one eats in available at any given time, rarely a shortage. Why should there be a shortage of songs on the radio?? It's called...customer satisfaction!

 

[OC Radio Geek]

I completely agree with oldies76! All these big media corporations own all the radio stations so all they care about is making money instead of making listeners satisfied.

 

[OCradiodude]

We're approaching July... I wonder if the rash of A to Z things will return, or if that was a brief bright spot in the sad monotony that is FM.

There is only one oldies station anyone needs: WLNG. Pretty much every song 55 up through the late 80s. Not 400 songs, or 500 songs, but 10,000 songs. And the jocks choose the tunes. Why go anywhere else?

From what I have heard, their 25-54 numbers aren't that great. David can probably chime in with exact info.

 

[calguy]

Obviously you guys are radio fans, but not radio people. If you were ever in the business you'd know that an oldies station that plays ten thousand songs and lets the deejays choose is nothing more than somebody else's ipod. Yeah it sounds cool, but as soon as someone who knows how to program a station, really knows how to do it will beat that ipod to death in the PPM. And that the real name of the game, always has been. Even going back to the old KFWB's, KHJ's WABC's, KFRC's etc... The bottom line then, just as now is to beat the other guy in the ratings. Sell airtime based on those ratings and make enough money to not only make profits for the owner, but pay the staff to do it. The better stations were able to do this well and pay their people really well. Because it was a newer way to do it back then, it was profitable and really fun. They were still learning. Well they learned, a little too well. Now days nothing is done without research. Research to the point that radio is pretty boring if you want variety and something fun to listen to. Nobody programs from the gut because they aren't allowed to. It's sad, but true.

In a perfect world radio companies would try, really try to serve the public by skillfully programming a fun to listen to station with tons of variety and enough familiarity to really entertain an audience. But it isn’t a perfect world and while I hate it just as much as you, radio may never do the right thing ever again. It'll just keep doing what it's doing until it strangles itself out of existence, finally giving way to a new medium that will take it place and repeat the cycle. That's because history usually repeats itself. You may not even recognize it, you may not even live to see it as it may take a while. But with the way technology advances, you might just get to see the dawn of something new.

Until then I suggest an ipod loaded to the gills with what you want to hear or might I suggest richbroradio.com. He really knows how to program oldies and I think you’ll like it. Sorry to be a wet blanket but that’s just the way I see it...

 

[OC Radio Geek]

Obviously you guys are radio fans, but not radio people. If you were ever in the business you'd know that an oldies station that plays ten thousand songs and lets the deejays choose is nothing more than somebody else's ipod. Yeah it sounds cool, but as soon as someone who knows how to program a station, really knows how to do it will beat that ipod to death in the PPM. And that the real name of the game, always has been. Even going back to the old KFWB's, KHJ's WABC's, KFRC's etc... The bottom line then, just as now is to beat the other guy in the ratings. Sell airtime based on those ratings and make enough money to not only make profits for the owner, but pay the staff to do it. The better stations were able to do this well and pay their people really well. Because it was a newer way to do it back then, it was profitable and really fun. They were still learning. Well they learned, a little too well. Now days nothing is done without research. Research to the point that radio is pretty boring if you want variety and something fun to listen to. Nobody programs from the gut because they aren't allowed to. It's sad, but true.

In a perfect world radio companies would try, really try to serve the public by skillfully programming a fun to listen to station with tons of variety and enough familiarity to really entertain an audience. But it isn’t a perfect world and while I hate it just as much as you, radio may never do the right thing ever again. It'll just keep doing what it's doing until it strangles itself out of existence, finally giving way to a new medium that will take it place and repeat the cycle. That's because history usually repeats itself. You may not even recognize it, you may not even live to see it as it may take a while. But with the way technology advances, you might just get to see the dawn of something new.

Until then I suggest an ipod loaded to the gills with what you want to hear or might I suggest richbroradio.com. He really knows how to program oldies and I think you’ll like it. Sorry to be a wet blanket but that’s just the way I see it...

Yes, you are completely correct. A radio stations fundamental job has always been to get ratings, gain advertisers, and make money. I think everyone on this board agrees with that! But the radio of today is so much different than in the past. We have lost the magic, fun, and personality of radio! Everything is so stiff and corporate now! I was an avid listener in the 70's and 80's to great stations like KHJ, KIQQ, KTNQ, KFI (when they actually played music), KRTH, KKHR, KIIS, KMGG, KPWR (before going urban), KMET, KROQ, KLOS, etc. There are no radio stations like this today in L.A.

So for you real radio guys........Why do you think it's so different now?

 

[calguy]

Obviously you guys are radio fans, but not radio people. If you were ever in the business you'd know that an oldies station that plays ten thousand songs and lets the deejays choose is nothing more than somebody else's ipod. Yeah it sounds cool, but as soon as someone who knows how to program a station, really knows how to do it will beat that ipod to death in the PPM. And that the real name of the game, always has been. Even going back to the old KFWB's, KHJ's WABC's, KFRC's etc... The bottom line then, just as now is to beat the other guy in the ratings. Sell airtime based on those ratings and make enough money to not only make profits for the owner, but pay the staff to do it. The better stations were able to do this well and pay their people really well. Because it was a newer way to do it back then, it was profitable and really fun. They were still learning. Well they learned, a little too well. Now days nothing is done without research. Research to the point that radio is pretty boring if you want variety and something fun to listen to. Nobody programs from the gut because they aren't allowed to. It's sad, but true.

In a perfect world radio companies would try, really try to serve the public by skillfully programming a fun to listen to station with tons of variety and enough familiarity to really entertain an audience. But it isn’t a perfect world and while I hate it just as much as you, radio may never do the right thing ever again. It'll just keep doing what it's doing until it strangles itself out of existence, finally giving way to a new medium that will take it place and repeat the cycle. That's because history usually repeats itself. You may not even recognize it, you may not even live to see it as it may take a while. But with the way technology advances, you might just get to see the dawn of something new.

Until then I suggest an ipod loaded to the gills with what you want to hear or might I suggest richbroradio.com. He really knows how to program oldies and I think you’ll like it. Sorry to be a wet blanket but that’s just the way I see it...

Yes, you are completely correct. A radio stations fundamental job has always been to get ratings, gain advertisers, and make money. I think everyone on this board agrees with that! But the radio of today is so much different than in the past. We have lost the magic, fun, and personality of radio! Everything is so stiff and corporate now! I was an avid listener in the 70's and 80's to great stations like KHJ, KIQQ, KTNQ, KFI (when they actually played music), KRTH, KKHR, KIIS, KMGG, KPWR (before going urban), KMET, KROQ, KLOS, etc. There are no radio stations like this today in L.A.

So for you real radio guys........Why do you think it's so different now?

Well I'm a real radio guy and I've probably told you half of it in the previous post. I know I've said it in others. It started in the 70's when more and more programmers began to increase the amount of research that they used and more and better technologies were applied to research. Owners and programmers felt that it was a good way to beat the other guy. It gave way to more parity. But the real problem intensified when Wall Street got more interested in radio and the door for mergers and acquisitions was opened when duopoly became the rule and more so when the Communications Act of 1996 was signed by President Clinton. Now companies were growing and properties were being bought at break-neck speed at inflated prices. When a huge corporation is involved properties come under one rule so everything, and I mean everything is researched which breeds nothing but familiarity. That means bland cookie cutter formats that are implemented at all of their stations across America. Now every company has what every other has. One group is the evil Wal-Mart, while another is Target. The one down the street is Mc Donald’s. And they’re all in debt to a certain degree because they bought at inflated prices. You get the idea, right? It’s not fun anymore, it’s just another business that needs to feed the greed and try to pay the debt. The uniqueness, the fun the magic is gone. The curtain has exposed the real wizard and he’s just not the all knowing, all seeing pooh-bah that we thought he was. Enter technology. Automation wasn’t some poorly performing bank of tape decks, it’s now a computer and it enables voice-tracking and suddenly the magicians—the air talent were being removed in huge numbers to help pay the never-ending debt and the big salaries of the so called managers at the top levels. I mean CEO’s CFO’s and top dogs have to make their millions too. Now, no more magicians at all hours in all cities. Now it’s like TV, where it’s all networked and transcribed. Hey the same magician is in your town too? He sounds kind of bland now that he’s a recording. Well he or she is over worked and gets bored pulling rabbits out of hats. That’s how it happened…

And that’s the short version…

 

[davideduardo]

It started in the 70's when more and more programmers began to increase the amount of research that they used and more and better technologies were applied to research.

Stations that did Top 40 researched in the mid-50's. It was just different research... jukebox plays, sales of 45's.

The real change in radio came when, in 1967, the FCC forced the success of FM by eliminating simulcasts. Suddenly each market had double or triple the number of facilities, and they promoted and acted like AMs in many cases.

So, where some Top 10 markets had, in the late 50's and early 60's, three formats... MOR, Top 40 and Black... now markets had 8, 10, 12 formats or variations. Counting record sales did not work, as we could not tell who bought which record, so we started researching at the listener level rather than at an intermediary level.

Top 40's throughout the 50's and 60's (the first was in 1952) played "the big songs" but we had no idea what part of the audience liked which song. That is why, anecdotally, I look at a Top 40 chart from '59 and think, "gee, I hated half of these songs."

The increase in radio options changed radio formats and programming. The Top 40's continued to be loud and wild, the AORs were more laid back, the often market-leading Beautiful Music stations were mostly voice tracked, the Black stations were representative of the vernacular of that listener group, as were the growing ranks of Spanish language stations and larger market country stations.

Skip to the 90's and the first new Millennium decade: more choices still, including custom personal playlists on an iPod or Pandora and web stations and satellite. Why does each person pick their personal favorites? The more fragmented a market, the greater need to find out the specifics of one group.

And today, in the second year of a near-depression, nearly nobody is doing research of any kind. But since formats are so narrow in an era of narrowness, how can a programmer know what fits and what does not? There is the problem... lack of resources. Fewer staff members, lower promotion dollars, less money, and having to still remain competitive.

So the answer is 5 decades of fragmentation, and one major recession.

and I mean everything is researched which breeds nothing but familiarity. That means bland cookie cutter formats that are implemented at all of their stations across America.

Go back to the 50's... by googling "Your Hit Parade" which was a TV show with Snooky Lanson and three other singers who did the top 10 each week in "cover versions" in a TV studio. The same Top 10 was top 10 in Seattle as it was in Savannah. The broad taste of America has always been, with intentional redundancy, broad.

If you look for local hits, your seldom find many, and even fewer that have stood not only the test of time but the tendency to migrate of Americans. That local LA hit in 1973 is irrelevant to more than 2/3 of the people old enough to appreciate it, because they did not grow up in LA: they came from Grand Rapids or Guangzhou or Guadalajara.

Automation wasn’t some poorly performing bank of tape decks, it’s now a computer and it enables voice-tracking and suddenly the magicians—the air talent were being removed in huge numbers to help pay the never-ending debt and the big salaries of the so called managers at the top levels.

I had a #1 station in a top 15 market in 1979 with automation... we just had not invented the buzz-term of "voice tracking" as yet. And the average listener thought the station was live, too. In fact, The Tonight Show is "recorded live" and has been for many decades... that does not seem to have impacted its success. But the fact is that many formats do not need... and even should not have... spontaneous, improvisational announcers, and devices that technology has given us allow a better use of resources.

For every trend, there are those who exaggerate or abuse. But for the most part, many formats don't have "personality jocks" because listeners don't want them and would not like them. In the era of the personal music device, the relevance of the jock is even in question... but that is a different subject.

"Research" is just a term for finding out what consumers like so that it can be provided to them. The only case where there is "over research" is when research is badly done or interpreted. The funny thing is that the good research shows Americans like the same sort of things, no matter where they are... it's not a cookie cutter, it's a mold that also allows a two party system (count party by party in England or Italy, for contrast), national brands, national charities and fashion trends that "sweep the country."

 

[OC Radio Geek]

Obviously you guys are radio fans, but not radio people. If you were ever in the business you'd know that an oldies station that plays ten thousand songs and lets the deejays choose is nothing more than somebody else's ipod. Yeah it sounds cool, but as soon as someone who knows how to program a station, really knows how to do it will beat that ipod to death in the PPM. And that the real name of the game, always has been. Even going back to the old KFWB's, KHJ's WABC's, KFRC's etc... The bottom line then, just as now is to beat the other guy in the ratings. Sell airtime based on those ratings and make enough money to not only make profits for the owner, but pay the staff to do it. The better stations were able to do this well and pay their people really well. Because it was a newer way to do it back then, it was profitable and really fun. They were still learning. Well they learned, a little too well. Now days nothing is done without research. Research to the point that radio is pretty boring if you want variety and something fun to listen to. Nobody programs from the gut because they aren't allowed to. It's sad, but true.

In a perfect world radio companies would try, really try to serve the public by skillfully programming a fun to listen to station with tons of variety and enough familiarity to really entertain an audience. But it isn’t a perfect world and while I hate it just as much as you, radio may never do the right thing ever again. It'll just keep doing what it's doing until it strangles itself out of existence, finally giving way to a new medium that will take it place and repeat the cycle. That's because history usually repeats itself. You may not even recognize it, you may not even live to see it as it may take a while. But with the way technology advances, you might just get to see the dawn of something new.

Until then I suggest an ipod loaded to the gills with what you want to hear or might I suggest richbroradio.com. He really knows how to program oldies and I think you’ll like it. Sorry to be a wet blanket but that’s just the way I see it...

Yes, you are completely correct. A radio stations fundamental job has always been to get ratings, gain advertisers, and make money. I think everyone on this board agrees with that! But the radio of today is so much different than in the past. We have lost the magic, fun, and personality of radio! Everything is so stiff and corporate now! I was an avid listener in the 70's and 80's to great stations like KHJ, KIQQ, KTNQ, KFI (when they actually played music), KRTH, KKHR, KIIS, KMGG, KPWR (before going urban), KMET, KROQ, KLOS, etc. There are no radio stations like this today in L.A.

So for you real radio guys........Why do you think it's so different now?

Well I'm a real radio guy and I've probably told you half of it in the previous post. I know I've said it in others. It started in the 70's when more and more programmers began to increase the amount of research that they used and more and better technologies were applied to research. Owners and programmers felt that it was a good way to beat the other guy. It gave way to more parity. But the real problem intensified when Wall Street got more interested in radio and the door for mergers and acquisitions was opened when duopoly became the rule and more so when the Communications Act of 1996 was signed by President Clinton. Now companies were growing and properties were being bought at break-neck speed at inflated prices. When a huge corporation is involved properties come under one rule so everything, and I mean everything is researched which breeds nothing but familiarity. That means bland cookie cutter formats that are implemented at all of their stations across America. Now every company has what every other has. One group is the evil Wal-Mart, while another is Target. The one down the street is Mc Donald’s. And they’re all in debt to a certain degree because they bought at inflated prices. You get the idea, right? It’s not fun anymore, it’s just another business that needs to feed the greed and try to pay the debt. The uniqueness, the fun the magic is gone. The curtain has exposed the real wizard and he’s just not the all knowing, all seeing pooh-bah that we thought he was. Enter technology. Automation wasn’t some poorly performing bank of tape decks, it’s now a computer and it enables voice-tracking and suddenly the magicians—the air talent were being removed in huge numbers to help pay the never-ending debt and the big salaries of the so called managers at the top levels. I mean CEO’s CFO’s and top dogs have to make their millions too. Now, no more magicians at all hours in all cities. Now it’s like TV, where it’s all networked and transcribed. Hey the same magician is in your town too? He sounds kind of bland now that he’s a recording. Well he or she is over worked and gets bored pulling rabbits out of hats. That’s how it happened…

And that’s the short version…

So, I was basically correct in my last post when I stated, "Everything is so stiff and corporate now!" I am really saddened that radio has come to this. Now, I just listen to airchecks of my favorite stations and DJ's from the past to relive those great years of radio. I hope all of these big radio/media corporations take a dump in the recession so radio can maybe go back to what it was. Yeah, one can only hope.....

 

[oldies76]

I hope all of these big radio/media corporations take a dump in the recession so radio can maybe go back to what it was. Yeah, one can only hope.....

Yeah, we can only hope, but I'm afraid the glory days of radio and the time when DJ's could pick their own songs without reprecussions are long, long gone. Hey..there is a solution though, connect our MP3 players to our stereos and playback any song, in any order to our likings. Or, have an in-home studio and play DJ for a time and re-live the good days.

It'll never be the same though....we just have to accept this nonsense, as much as we hate it!

It's great producing my own A to Z special though...456 hits, just through the letters A & B so far. Now, this is sweet!

 

[LKellerIII]

Automation wasn’t some poorly performing bank of tape decks, it’s now a computer and it enables voice-tracking and suddenly the magicians—the air talent were being removed in huge numbers to help pay the never-ending debt and the big salaries of the so called managers at the top levels.

I had a #1 station in a top 15 market in 1979 with automation... we just had not invented the buzz-term of "voice tracking" as yet. And the average listener thought the station was live, too. In fact, The Tonight Show is "recorded live" and has been for many decades... that does not seem to have impacted its success. But the fact is that many formats do not need... and even should not have... spontaneous, improvisational announcers, and devices that technology has given us allow a better use of resources.

For every trend, there are those who exaggerate or abuse. But for the most part, many formats don't have "personality jocks" because listeners don't want them and would not like them. In the era of the personal music device, the relevance of the jock is even in question... but that is a different subject.

"Research" is just a term for finding out what consumers like so that it can be provided to them. The only case where there is "over research" is when research is badly done or interpreted. The funny thing is that the good research shows Americans like the same sort of things, no matter where they are... it's not a cookie cutter, it's a mold that also allows a two party system (count party by party in England or Italy, for contrast), national brands, national charities and fashion trends that "sweep the country."

As I remember the 1960s and early 70s, the FMs that weren't simulcasting were usually automated. It wasn't until the potential for profit in FM became apparent that live local jocks were added - the first live DJs I remember were on the "free-form" stations like KMET and KPPC. "Beautiful Music" stations were generally automated, and they got huge ratings for many years.

Bill Drake's automated "Hit Parade" and later "Solid Gold" formats (KHJ-FM 101.1 in LA, for example) even provided time-checks, which is more than live and local jocks do these days. And for the most part, those primitive "tape deck" systems performed pretty well. They would sometimes go down with amusing results - minutes of dead air, or songs repeated 2 or 3 times...until the engineer woke up. But those instances were rare.

 

[calguy]

David, you are correct about the research, but it wasn't done by everyone back then. Yeah, people looked at jukebox play and such. I had a friend who used to cruise parking lots and peer into car windows to see where the tuning fork on the car radios was set. But it wasn't used on the scale that it is now and the technology has turned it into an art form that’s been terribly abused. Now EVERYONE uses research. Back in the old, old days it was spotty. Automated radio in the 70's could be done right, just look at how great the old KNX-FM sounded. It was a masterpiece of thought and engineering. They were even prepping their music using computer generated playlists and making sure that all songs keyed into the next. But you didn't see that kind of dedication at most automated stations and the bulk of them were Beautiful Music formats. By the way, we're still doing research where I work, so it's still being done. Like I said, it was the short version. But I thank you for fleshing it out as I wasn't even alive in the 50's.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you are correct about the research, but it wasn't done by everyone back then.

In major markets, there were only a couple of formats. I gave an example (it was Cleveland) where there were three formats on 8 stations... and the only format you could research was top 40, as the methods for researching by age or ethnicity did not exist.

Yeah, people looked at jukebox play and such.

No, only Top 40's could do that. Other formats did not generate the sales worth measuring... just like most adult formats today.

But it wasn't used on the scale that it is now and the technology has turned it into an art form that’s been terribly abused.

As the technology, mostly computational, has developed we got ratings with more age breaks and the ability to look at the tastes of our own listeners, no matter what the format was.

I fail to see abuse when we are talking about determining what listeners want and do not want. As to research being an art form, I totally disagree. Statistics is a science, and it is the only one where "error" is not a nasty word, not an art. Similarly, interpreting statistics is not an art, but implementing the findings from statistics is.

Now EVERYONE uses research. Back in the old, old days it was spotty.

Once the science of researching niche audiences and the ability to recruit them and test them was developed, those formats needing research got better research. Previously, much researech was perceptual, not song by song... now we have both. But nearly nobody is researching now and most have not for going on 2 years.

Automated radio in the 70's could be done right, just look at how great the old KNX-FM sounded. It was a masterpiece of thought and engineering. They were even prepping their music using computer generated playlists and making sure that all songs keyed into the next. But you didn't see that kind of dedication at most automated stations and the bulk of them were Beautiful Music formats.

In the mid-70's, companies like TM, Peters, IGM, D-C and others had formats that were not Beautiful Music; there were many more stations using syndicated non-BM formats than there were playing Caravelli and James Last.

By the way, we're still doing research where I work, so it's still being done. Like I said, it was the short version. But I thank you for fleshing it out as I wasn't even alive in the 50's.

Probably 90% has been cut out or cut back. As I said, as markets become fragmented, it is a necessity to keep defining constantly the target.

Keep in mind that today's issues are economic... a mature business in a recession is certainly not in a good position. Add in changes in delivery of entertainment (I just bought a DVD player that can play Pandora... as well as Net Flix selections... through my TV) and so what people expect from radio is changing... the cray DJ or the 60's is no longer a model to emulate; with so many options, radio can not play risky songs or deviate from expectations... and so far, there is no better model for commercial radiol than what we have now.

 

[davideduardo]

As I remember the 1960s and early 70s, the FMs that weren't simulcasting were usually automated.

Until 1967, when the FCC prohibited larger market simulcasts, no FM was doing much, as a stand alone or a simulcast. In fact, in 1960, there were only 60% of the number of FMs there were in 1950. Of course, I worked at a live FM starting in 1959, but it made no money...

It wasn't until the potential for profit in FM became apparent that live local jocks were added - the first live DJs I remember were on the "free-form" stations like KMET and KPPC.

Within literally months of the 1967 FCC ruling, there were many live FMs in all kinds of formats. Many were free form or progressive, but by the very early 70's AOR was not just live but a major contender all over the nation. I remember live FMs in Washington DC like oldies WMOD in 1969... and by 1971/2 we had a half dozen live FM only CHRs like WMYQ, WDRQ, KSLQ, WERC, etc. There was plenty of live FM in the late 60's...

"Beautiful Music" stations were generally automated, and they got huge ratings for many years.

And in the larger markets, they were live. I believe Schulke required the top 20 markets to be live or he would not accept them.

Bill Drake's automated "Hit Parade" and later "Solid Gold" formats (KHJ-FM 101.1 in LA, for example) even provided time-checks, which is more than live and local jocks do these days.

First, in the world of the ultra exact quartz watch, nobody needs time checks. And KRTH went oldies and dropped the syndicated stuff in 1972... and LA was filled with live FMs that year.

 

[calguy]

I had a #1 station in a top 15 market in 1979 with automation... we just had not invented the buzz-term of "voice tracking" as yet. And the average listener thought the station was live, too. In fact, The Tonight Show is "recorded live" and has been for many decades... that does not seem to have impacted its success. But the fact is that many formats do not need... and even should not have... spontaneous, improvisational announcers, and devices that technology has given us allow a better use of resources.

Yes, that’s true and you only mentioned the largest syndicators of automated programming. But while they did provide non- Beautiful Music programming there were many more stations opting for “live” contemporary formats. In LA alone in the early 80’s there were at least three major signals that were automated Beautiful Music formats. KOST, KBIG and KJOI. I worked at a few automated stations early in my career and only one of them was Beautiful Music. The others were Top 40 and Rock but were locally programmed. Still it seemed that the bulk of the automated stations in America were Beautiful Music and in many markets Classical.

 

[Bryan Simmons]

The first commercial station I pulled an air shift at was KROI-FM in Sacramento in 1976 and at that time it was automated with a Schafer 800 thumbwheel controlled brain that had reel to reels for music and cart carousels for spots and program elements. We affectionately named the machine “the beast”. We did call it voice tracking back then. Actually we used to call it "noise tracking" as a joke. KROI was a rock station and we didn't do too badly ratings wise, though we still lagged behind our sister station and market leader 1240 KROY.

I also worked for Concept Productions run by former KFIG Fresno Program Director Dick Wagner. Most of his talent came from San Francisco, but many more came from Sacramento. He provided all of a station’s music and voice tracking with custom tailoring for each station. He had several formats, Country, AOR, Top 40 and what was then called Pop Adult. Like most of his competitors he closed up shop when satellite formats put him out of business. It was a nice way to make a few extra bucks and really a very pleasant company to work for. So yes, there was more than just Beautiful Music when it came to automated stations.

 

[michael hagerty]

The first commercial station I pulled an air shift at was KROI-FM in Sacramento in 1976 and at that time it was automated with a Schafer 800 thumbwheel controlled brain that had reel to reels for music and cart carousels for spots and program elements. We affectionately named the machine “the beast”. We did call it voice tracking back then. Actually we used to call it "noise tracking" as a joke. KROI was a rock station and we didn't do too badly ratings wise, though we still lagged behind our sister station and market leader 1240 KROY.

I also worked for Concept Productions run by former KFIG Fresno Program Director Dick Wagner. Most of his talent came from San Francisco, but many more came from Sacramento. He provided all of a station’s music and voice tracking with custom tailoring for each station. He had several formats, Country, AOR, Top 40 and what was then called Pop Adult. Like most of his competitors he closed up shop when satellite formats put him out of business. It was a nice way to make a few extra bucks and really a very pleasant company to work for. So yes, there was more than just Beautiful Music when it came to automated stations.

Bryan:
Thanks for mentioning both the Schafer 800 and Concept Productions...I programmed an FM using both (an A/C format) in Bishop, California from 1974-1976. And, I left there for KUKI, Ukiah, where we had an automated FM running Drake-Chenault's country format.

---Michael Hagerty