KRTH tops Nielsen Audio ratings for June

[Thomps2525]

KRTH has a 5.2% audience share and is in sole possession of first place in the June Nielsen Audio ratings for Los Angeles. Last month the station was tied with KBIG, which is now in a two-way tie for second place with KOST. KIIS ranks fourth and is followed by KTWV, KSWD, KCBS-FM, KFI, KAMP and Spanish contemporary KLVE. Real 92.3 KRRL ranks 11th and country KKGO is 12th with a 3.0. Of the four sports stations, KSPN ranks 27th with a 1.3 share, KLAC is 32nd with a 0.9, KLAA is 39th with a 0.3, and KFWB is 41st with a share that fell from 0.4 to 0.2 following the Clippers' exit in the second round of this year's NBA playoffs.

The Los Angeles ratings are available at ****************:

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb003

 

[K.M. Richards]

I'll reserve comment until I see the demographic breakouts. (When are you all going to finally learn that the 12+ numbers have nothing to do with a station's success? That's why those numbers are given away by Nielsen.)

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I'll reserve comment until I see the demographic breakouts. (When are you all going to finally learn that the 12+ numbers have nothing to do with a station's success? That's why those numbers are given away by Nielsen.)

They don't mean nothing. They mean something, just not something that is necessarily useful for station sales. I don't know of any unsuccessful #1 stations 12+ and I have never seen a programmer who wasn't thrilled to be #1 12+, regardless of demo breakouts. Don't crash their party; they've earned it. Besides, it's not like their demos changed significantly from last month anyway.

 

[Thomps2525]

So "12+ numbers have nothing to do with a station's success"? That's odd. The Nielsen Audio ratings always rank the stations from first to last based on those 12+ numbers. Those of us who are not in the radio industry probably do not care about "demographic breakouts," nor do we care about "sales" and "ad buys." I appreciate ChannelFlipper's comments. I do not appreciate the comments of certain people who attack me (and a few others) for expressing an opinion or, as in the first post of this thread, simply mentioning the top 12 stations in the latest ratings. I was asked when I am going to learn? Oh, believe me, I have learned a lot on this site.

 

[davideduardo]

They don't mean nothing. They mean something, just not something that is necessarily useful for station sales. I don't know of any unsuccessful #1 stations 12+ and I have never seen a programmer who wasn't thrilled to be #1 12+, regardless of demo breakouts. Don't crash their party; they've earned it. Besides, it's not like their demos changed significantly from last month anyway.

KRTH is down from 3rd to 4th in 25-54 and is tied for 4th in 18-49. That puts them in pretty much of a "must buy" zone for all buys that don't stop short of the core of 35-54 that KRTH offers to advertisers.

#1 and out of the money for a decade and a half: WDUV in Tampa. They were 15th in 25-54, and the lowest billing decent signal FM in the market. That's just one example. There are quite a few.

Many of us don't look at 12+ ever unless our eye catches a ranker for our market in the trades. In some cases, people are warned not to ever look at 12+ because it distorts the reality of the business side of radio.

An example is a station I know that was the #1 Spanish language station in 12-24 and 18-24. The problem is that there are no Spanish language buys against those two demos. Ever.

 

[davideduardo]

So "12+ numbers have nothing to do with a station's success"? That's odd. The Nielsen Audio ratings always rank the stations from first to last based on those 12+ numbers.

It has been mentioned before that 12+ or 6+ numbers are given away by Nielsen because they have absolutely no value.

Otherwise, they would not give even that away for free.

 

[oldies76]

I appreciate ChannelFlipper's comments. I do not appreciate the comments of certain people who attack me (and a few others) for expressing an opinion or, as in the first post of this thread, simply mentioning the top 12 stations in the latest ratings. I was asked when I am going to learn? Oh, believe me, I have learned a lot on this site.

Especially after we were told by the moderator to play nice.

 

[Bob Eubanks]

So "12+ numbers have nothing to do with a station's success"?

Correct.

 

[oldies76]

KRTH is down from 3rd to 4th in 25-54 and is tied for 4th in 18-49. That puts them in pretty much of a "must buy" zone for all buys that don't stop short of the core of 35-54 that KRTH offers to advertisers.

Thomps, this is a more accurate figure. It's more age specific.

 

[Thomps2525]

So why, when the Dodgers announce the attendance figure for a baseball game, do they give only the total number? Why don't they give a "demographic breakdown" and tell us how many fans were in the 12-17 age group. how many were 18 to 24, how many were 25 to 39, et cetera? And another thing---why do the standings rank the teams from first to last according to their winning percentage? Aren't the won-loss numbers and the winning percentages just meaningless numbers? I guess we can all be glad that Major League Baseball isn't run the way the Nielsen Audio ratings are run.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

KRTH is down from 3rd to 4th in 25-54 and is tied for 4th in 18-49. That puts them in pretty much of a "must buy" zone for all buys that don't stop short of the core of 35-54 that KRTH offers to advertisers.

#1 and out of the money for a decade and a half: WDUV in Tampa. They were 15th in 25-54, and the lowest billing decent signal FM in the market. That's just one example. There are quite a few.

Many of us don't look at 12+ ever unless our eye catches a ranker for our market in the trades. In some cases, people are warned not to ever look at 12+ because it distorts the reality of the business side of radio.

An example is a station I know that was the #1 Spanish language station in 12-24 and 18-24. The problem is that there are no Spanish language buys against those two demos. Ever.

OK, there are a few exceptions. I have heard of this WDUV case in Tampa before as a poster child to the ratings/revenue dichotomy. Still is hard to understand though. The market is saturated with geezers, the station plays to the geezers, yet no one can sell the station. I know about the over 55 ad buys (there aren't any) but still, it seems a hungry sales force should be able to sell it.

On the other hand, I remember a great example of when 12+ meant a lot - When KOST 103 got there for the first time back in the day (I want to say it was the early 90's, but maybe it was the late 80s? I'm doing this just on memory). But oh how they made up new sweepers that talked it up, Mark and Kim brought it up consistently and they even had Dick Clark cut new promos to advertise it. Of course it wasn't directed at the advertisers, it was directed at the listeners. In fact I always presumed it was all directed at existing, as opposed to new listeners. You know, "no reason to sample KBIG during the day like we know you are doing, WE are the number one station in town so you can just leave your dial where it is....along the KOST"

Fascinating insight that some PDs are cautioned never to look at 12+ because of it's distortive impact. I can see how they would be trained to do this. But could it really be that some PD is walking around town as the programmer of the #1 station in town and not know it? It would be a real possibility if they followed the advice and were very good at programming to the demos only.

 

[oldies76]

So why, when the Dodgers announce the attendance figure for a baseball game, do they give only the total number? Why don't they give a "demographic breakdown" and tell us how many fans were in the 12-17 age group. how many were 18 to 24, how many were 25 to 39, et cetera? And another thing---why do the standings rank the teams from first to last according to their winning percentage? Aren't the won-loss numbers and the winning percentages just meaningless numbers? I guess we can all be glad that Major League Baseball isn't run the way the Nielsen Audio ratings are run.

That's how MLB ranks the teams, by winning% (Dodgers in first at .560 btw). Stadiums usually only give the total attendance or paid attendance. Radio is more specific by different groups, then ranked.

The 12+ is too general. See, I learned too!

 

[davideduardo]

OK, there are a few exceptions. I have heard of this WDUV case in Tampa before as a poster child to the ratings/revenue dichotomy. Still is hard to understand though. The market is saturated with geezers, the station plays to the geezers, yet no one can sell the station. I know about the over 55 ad buys (there aren't any) but still, it seems a hungry sales force should be able to sell it.

Until the format died totally, the "Music of (the remaining years of) Your Life" and similar standards stations got huge numbers until you zapped the 55+ part. No under-55, no sales. Many smooth jazz stations had nice 12+ numbers, even when they died. But it was mostly 55+ and no sales.

In places that are "famous" for senior populations, if you look at the average age it is not that much higher than non-retirement communities. Phoenix, Tampa, Miami are Top 20 Markets where there is a lot of agency business and where there are also lots of local multi-location retailers and such. The retirement crowd tends to be delivered by TV News, lots of direct mail, and even print.

Most retailers seem to know that just like 18-34's, different geezers have different choices in music and programming so radio is often thought of as too fragmented.

And then you run into retailers... lots of them... who don't want the "old farts" in the store as they give younger peeps the idea that what they sell is out of date and old fashioned.

On the other hand, I remember a great example of when 12+ meant a lot - When KOST 103 got there for the first time back in the day (I want to say it was the early 90's, but maybe it was the late 80s? I'm doing this just on memory). But oh how they made up new sweepers that talked it up, Mark and Kim brought it up consistently and they even had Dick Clark cut new promos to advertise it. Of course it wasn't directed at the advertisers, it was directed at the listeners. In fact I always presumed it was all directed at existing, as opposed to new listeners. You know, "no reason to sample KBIG during the day like we know you are doing, WE are the number one station in town so you can just leave your dial where it is....along the KOST"

You have the right analysis there... that was peer group influencing going on. When KLVE went #1 in 1995 and stayed there we had a jingle that said "Number one in Arbitron and in your heart!" and used it for years. Listeners like to know they made the right choice.

Fascinating insight that some PDs are cautioned never to look at 12+ because of it's distortive impact. I can see how they would be trained to do this. But could it really be that some PD is walking around town as the programmer of the #1 station in town and not know it? It would be a real possibility if they followed the advice and were very good at programming to the demos only.

Oh, we know it. But we don't focus on it. I often don't look at 12+ until I do a full analysis of a station's core demos and subsets. Otherwise, I can be swayed.

 

[michael hagerty]

So why, when the Dodgers announce the attendance figure for a baseball game, do they give only the total number? Why don't they give a "demographic breakdown" and tell us how many fans were in the 12-17 age group. how many were 18 to 24, how many were 25 to 39, et cetera?

Because they're not selling radio advertising to ad agencies, Steve. Any other questions that make my brain hurt?

 

[michael hagerty]

OK, there are a few exceptions. I have heard of this WDUV case in Tampa before as a poster child to the ratings/revenue dichotomy. Still is hard to understand though. The market is saturated with geezers, the station plays to the geezers, yet no one can sell the station. I know about the over 55 ad buys (there aren't any) but still, it seems a hungry sales force should be able to sell it.

On the other hand, I remember a great example of when 12+ meant a lot - When KOST 103 got there for the first time back in the day (I want to say it was the early 90's, but maybe it was the late 80s? I'm doing this just on memory). But oh how they made up new sweepers that talked it up, Mark and Kim brought it up consistently and they even had Dick Clark cut new promos to advertise it. Of course it wasn't directed at the advertisers, it was directed at the listeners. In fact I always presumed it was all directed at existing, as opposed to new listeners. You know, "no reason to sample KBIG during the day like we know you are doing, WE are the number one station in town so you can just leave your dial where it is....along the KOST"

Fascinating insight that some PDs are cautioned never to look at 12+ because of it's distortive impact. I can see how they would be trained to do this. But could it really be that some PD is walking around town as the programmer of the #1 station in town and not know it? It would be a real possibility if they followed the advice and were very good at programming to the demos only.

KGO, San Francisco was still #1 in the 12+ a few years ago when salable demos had begun to plunge dangerously. It happens. If you get every 55+ listener in just about any city (especially one in retirement towns, which SF isn't) to listen to you, you can easily end up #1, #2 or #3 in the overall numbers....and nowhere in the sales demos.

 

[34james]

Think its time for KCXX to throw in the towel, they are 0.9 overall in the Riverside Market ratings. Their alternative format isnt even a joke, its lame. 0.9 overall tells me they probably are not in the top 5 for 18-34 age range, listenership wise.

 

[K.M. Richards]

So why, when the Dodgers announce the attendance figure for a baseball game, do they give only the total number? Why don't they give a "demographic breakdown" and tell us how many fans were in the 12-17 age group. how many were 18 to 24, how many were 25 to 39, et cetera?

Because you're comparing apples and oranges, Steve. And I think my head hurts as badly as Mike's after that bit of nonsense.

 

[K.M. Richards]

That's how MLB ranks the teams, by winning% (Dodgers in first at .560 btw). Stadiums usually only give the total attendance or paid attendance. Radio is more specific by different groups, then ranked.

The 12+ is too general. See, I learned too!

You get a gold star next to your name on the wall chart, oldies.

 

[TheBigA]

Because you're comparing apples and oranges, Steve. And I think my head hurts as badly as Mike's after that bit of nonsense.

However, we should point out that someone in the Dodgers front office is looking at age demos. Some of their promotion days are designed to attract younger people to the park. Because while they make money from tickets, they also have advertising placed throughout the park. Their total attendance figure is a general number, just like the 6+. However, they have more detailed information available for those who need it.

 

[chrocket87]

I'd say a better Dodgers-related analogy would be breaking out into price per ticket "demos", like 40-50, 200-250, etc. Just like in reporting 6+ demos, a total attendance figure is worthless if the tickets are cheap or given away. Just ask the San Jose Sharks how they had sell outs all season a few years back yet still lost money.