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KSAN vs KFRC The Golden Years

michael hagerty said:
I'd guess not anything amazing...it was up against KSFO, which was still huge, and KNBR.

Huff's available ratings go further back and are more in-depth in terms of demographics, but looking at the earliest books available on WorldRadioHistory-dot-com (April/May '76), in the San Francisco book, KLOK was 14th with a 2.4 (overall audience 12+).

In San Jose, in April/May '76, KLOK was 4th with a 6.9, behind KBAY (9.8), KFRC (7.2), and KOME (7.1). So it beat KSFO and KNBR in the South Bay, but I don't think it was ever especially competitive in the San Francisco book.
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When you talk about KLOK, you have to differentiate between KLOK/1170AM and KLOK-FM/103.7. In the 70's, it was only KLOK-AM, and while their 5 KW signal did a good job of covering the South Bay, not so much as it got north into the upper peninsula, San Fran or Oakland. So it's understandable why their full market numbers didn't set the Bay Area on fire. (Similar to KBAY's issues with country.)

KLOK-FM (as I wrote in another thread) launched in 1983 or so, and while their signal was full-market (off Sutro Tower), the "Yes-No Radio" concept (listener voting on which songs should be added to the playlist) was only moderately successful. It lasted a few years, morphing into a more traditional format over that time, and then the station was sold. IIRC, it very successfully became KKSF, the Smooth Jazz station, for a decade or more.
 
Weiserguy said:
When you talk about KLOK, you have to differentiate between KLOK/1170AM and KLOK-FM/103.7.
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Well, not if you're talking about before January 1, 1984, when KGO-FM became KLOK-FM.

Weiserguy said:
In the 70's, it was only KLOK-AM, and while their 5 KW signal did a good job of covering the South Bay, not so much as it got north into the upper peninsula, San Fran or Oakland. So it's understandable why their full market numbers didn't set the Bay Area on fire. (Similar to KBAY's issues with country.)
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KLOK had 50kw daytime from August 10, 1969 onward.
 
michael hagerty said:
Well, not if you're talking about before January 1, 1984, when KGO-FM became KLOK-FM.



KLOK had 50kw daytime from August 10, 1969 onward.
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Weiserguy said:
KLOK-FM (as I wrote in another thread) launched in 1983 or so, and while their signal was full-market (off Sutro Tower),
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Would you not agree that "launched in 1983 or so" and "not if you're talking about before January 1, 1984" are pretty much saying the same thing?
 
Weiserguy said:
Would you not agree that "launched in 1983 or so" and "not if you're talking about before January 1, 1984" are pretty much saying the same thing?
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One's a bit more clear. And given that there's been a KLOK for 77 years and that there was only a KLOK-FM for three and a half, there's a fairly narrow window where you would have to differentiate, which didn't apply to this conversation anyway.
 
We were in the Bay Area at the time, I always liked KFRC, never listened much to KSAN-FM, did have an FM converter in the car and an AM/FM tuner at home, as well as a "good old" AM/FM table radio or two.
At the time, until around 1985 KFRC "THE BIG 610" & KYA 1260 were in my book . . . both AM's. KLIV 1590 in San Jose was good too,
Liked KNEW 910 too, they played RnR oldies, again it was all AM for me at the time and Top 40.

KLOK 1170 went thru some odd things during the time, weren't they the ones that did YES/NO radio, where I think you voted on the song played, kind of like all day you'd vote on different songs?

I did occasionally listen to FM, KYA-FM and KIOI-FM, as well as KCBS-FM (when they played Top 40 in the early 70's), I don't recall when KFRC-FM started to play Top 40 ?, then KSFX-FM came along.
I liked a DJ on KSFX - who was a real "clown", he did mornings, name was Steve Kappin (last name spelling ???), anybody know what happened to him.

Again, I did not pay much attention to KSAN-FM. I knew they were popular but not my cup of tea.
 
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alok said:
We were in the Bay Area at the time, I always liked KFRC, never listened much to KSAN-FM, did have an FM converter in the car and an AM/FM tuner at home, as well as a "good old" AM/FM table radio or two.
At the time, until around 1985 KFRC "THE BIG 610" & KYA 1260 were in my book . . . both AM's. KLIV 1590 in San Jose was good too,
Liked KNEW 910 too, they played RnR oldies, again it was all AM for me at the time and Top 40.

KLOK 1170 went thru some odd things during the time, weren't they the ones that did YES/NO radio, where I think you voted on the song played, kind of like all day you'd vote on different songs?
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Weiserguy mentions KLOK's "Yes/No radio" thing at the top of this page.

alok said:
I did occasionally listen to FM, KYA-FM and KIOI-FM, as well as KCBS-FM (when they played Top 40 in the early 70's), I don't recall when KFRC-FM started to play Top 40 ?, then KSFX-FM came along.
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KFRC-FM morphed out of oldies into an automated Top 40 as "K-106" in 1976. Lasted maybe a year.

KSFX began in 1971 as an ABC-FM "Rock 'n Stereo" album rock, went top 40 (a format modeled on WABC, New York) in 1973, R&B/dance in 1974, eventually morphing to full-on disco, and came back to album rock in 1981, after KSAN went Country. That lasted until May 2, 1983, when it became a simulcast of KGO.

alok said:
I liked a DJ on KSFX - who was a real "clown", he did mornings, name was Steve Kappin (last name spelling ???), anybody know what happened to him.
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Stephen Capen was one of the best morning guys in the album rock format---had terrible luck in San Francisco. Hired at KSAN just before the flip to Country, and then at KSFX when it returned to album rock in '81---but that lasted just over a year before the format change.

To stay afloat between KSAN and KSFX, he took a news gig at KFRC for a few months.

Stephen died of lung cancer 18 years ago:

 
Thank You Michael Hagerty, yes I saw the earlier YES/NO comments on KLOK, I thought someone had more info on it. Thanks for the link to Steve Capen.
He was great on KSFX in the mornings, I'd laugh so much at his "wisecrack" remarks.

Also, I'll look for that SOMETHING IN THE AIR doc, I'd like seeing that.

As I said I did not listen to KSAN but tuned by it and I'd stop on occasions. I knew they had a following.

Again Mike & all, Thanks for info.
 
From my recollection in '70s South Bay, KOME and KSJO were really strong. I have to believe this impacted KSAN in the South Bay and likely put a dent in the overall Bay Area numbers. On the other hand, KFRC's signal was strong in the South Bay, had a much better dial position than KLIV and most importantly had Dr. Don Rose. Doubt KLIV did much damage to KFRC's ratings.
 
adradio said:
From my recollection in '70s South Bay, KOME and KSJO were really strong. I have to believe this impacted KSAN in the South Bay and likely put a dent in the overall Bay Area numbers. On the other hand, KFRC's signal was strong in the South Bay, had a much better dial position than KLIV and most importantly had Dr. Don Rose. Doubt KLIV did much damage to KFRC's ratings.
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KOME and KSJO didn’t start to get traction in the SF book until 1976 and after. From ‘77-‘80, album rock was a four-way battle—-KSJO, KSAN, KOME and KMEL.

KLIV showed up in the SF book, but was never a threat. From 1975-78, KFRC was a major factor everywhere it could be heard, showing up with strong numbers in the San Jose, Monterey, Sacramento, Stockton and Modesto ratings.
 
From what I remember the FM's in the SF Area like in many places really didn't dent the AM's until around the late 70's. I could be wrong but that is what I recall.
KLIV sounded good but we did live near the South Eastbay so they had a good signal there.

Again, like KSAN I remember KOME & KSJO, like KSAN I tuned by them and occasionally stopped to listen to a song I liked, but I was hooked on AM Top 40.

Remember "KARA" IN SANTA CLARA !!!, on FM at 105.7.
they were automated oldies and had such a bad sound, dead air & more, I think they were owned by KLIV.
 
alok said:
From what I remember the FM's in the SF Area like in many places really didn't dent the AM's until around the late 70's. I could be wrong but that is what I recall.
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The ratings summaries at WorldRadioHistory-dot-com make it really easy to visualize FM's progress in the Bay Area:

Top 10 stations Spring 1976 (total audience 12+):

1. KFRC 8.1
2. KGO 8.0
3. KCBS 6.8
4. KSFO 6.3
5. KFOG-FM 5.4
6. KNBR 4.6
7. KABL (AM) 4.3
8. KNEW 3.6
9. KIOI-FM 3.2
10. KBAY-FM 3.1

(the first place FM makes serious inroads is beautiful music---through KABL-AM would be surprisingly resilient for years to come. KIOI was wildly inconsistent book to book, unable to sustain momentum)

Spring 1977:

1. KGO 7.9
2. KCBS 7.1
3. KFRC 6.6
4. KSFO 5.8
5. KNBR 4.7
6. KFOG-FM 4.5
7. KOIT-FM 4.3
8. KABL (AM) 3.6
9. KNEW 3.2
10. KABL-FM 2.9

(all three FMs in the top ten are beautiful music)

Spring 1978:

1. KFRC 8.4
2. KGO 7.6
3. KSFO 6.5
4. KCBS 5.8
5. KFOG-FM 4.4
6. KIOI-FM 3.9
7. KABL (AM) 3.5
7. KOIT-FM 3.5
9. KSFX-FM 3.4
10.KNBR 3.3

(here we've gone from three FMs in the top 10 to four. KIOI is back and KSFX is having a moment with disco)

Spring 1979:

1. KGO 9.0
2. KFRC 5.8
2. KNBR 5.8
4. KCBS 5.1
5. KFOG-FM 4.1
6. KSOL-FM 3.7
6. KIOI-FM 3.7
6. KOIT-FM 3.7
9. KABL (AM) 3.5
10. KSFO 3.4

(KSOL makes the first real inroad for truly contemporary hit music, as KIOI thrashes about, trying disco for a matter of days, then a heavily-Gold AC)

Spring 1980:

1. KGO 9.0
2. KCBS 5.5
3. KFOG-FM 4.7
4. KFRC 4.4
5. KSOL-FM 4.3
5. KNBR 4.3
7. KYUU-FM 3.6
8. KSFX-FM 3.3
9. KSFO 3.2
10. KDIA 3.1

(KYUU finds a niche playing mainstream hits while KSOL and KSFX are still R&B/dance)

(first FM in the top 3)

Spring 1981:

1. KGO 9.4
2. KSOL-FM 5.6
3. KCBS 5.1
4. KSFO 5.0
5. KFRC 4.8
6. KNBR 4.1
7. KMEL-FM 4.0
7. KYUU-FM 4.0
9. KABL-FM 3.6
10. KIOI-FM 3.3

(first FM in the top 2---half of the top 10 is now FM. KYUU is now the highest-rated mainstream hit station as KFRC decides to defend against KSOL by going heavily rhythmic. KMEL makes the strongest showing for an album rock station in years)

Spring 1982:

1. KGO 8.6
2. KCBS 4.9
3. KSOL-FM 4.8
4. KFRC 4.2
5. KSFO 3.7
5. KMEL-FM 3.7
7. KNBR 3.5
8. KRQR-FM 3.3
9. KBLX-FM 3.2
10. KFOG-FM 3.1

(KMEL and KRQR make it two AORs in the top 10)

Spring 1983:

1. KGO 8.6
2. KCBS 5.1
3. KFRC 4.2
4. KSAN-FM 4.1
5. KNBR 3.6
6. KABL-FM 3.2
6. KSFO 3.2
6. KYUU-FM 3.2
9. KABL (AM) 3.1
9. KIOI-FM 3.1

(Took 'em 2+ years, but KSAN delivers a strong Country number)

Spring 1984:

1. KGO 8.7
2. KSOL-FM 5.1
3. KCBS 4.3
4. KNBR 4.0
5. KYUU-FM 3.6
6. KFRC 3.4
7. KABL-FM 3.0
7. KSAN-FM 3.0
7. KOIT-FM 3.0
7. KSFO 3.0

(Gerry Cagle is out at KFRC. New PD Mike Phillips---from KIOI--- ditches the rhythmic, goes mainstream and loses to KYUU by 0.2)

Spring 1985:

1. KGO 8.2
2. KCBS 5.2
3. KSOL-FM 4.4
4. KYUU-FM 3.8
5. KABL-FM 3.5
6. KNBR 3.4
7. KIOI-FM 3.3
8. KSAN-FM 3.2
9. KABL (AM) 3.1
10. KNEW 2.8

(KFRC and KSFO are gone from the top ten, never to return)

Spring 1986:

1. KGO 7.2
2. KCBS 6.8
3. KNBR 4.9
4. KSOL-FM 4.4
5. KABL-FM 3.7
6. KMEL-FM 3.0
7. KYUU-FM 2.9
7. KBLX-FM 2.9
9. KFOG-FM 2.8
9. KSAN-FM 2.8

...and from this point on, the only AMs that would go top 10 were KGO, KCBS and KNBR. The biggest draws on the AM dial were largely spoken-word (KNBR was morphing to a sports station).
 
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TomásEstefan said:
I lived up in the bay area region during this period and like the ratings show (and like I always thought) every kid listed to KFRC !
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Well, a 25.6 in teens means just over a quarter of them did. If you add up KYA, KLIV and KSFX (then doing a Top 40), you get a 26 there.

KFRC had the largest single teen audience, but a lot of them were listening to other stations.
 
michael hagerty said:
Terrain was a major factor—-and two of the music AMs (KNBR and KSFO) had the major sports teams.
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It is is definitely hilly! Was San Francisco the last major US market with relevant CHR on AM? WLS in Chicago lasted longer than WNBC and WABC, but I'm not sure when they started to fade into obscurity.
 
CentralFL said:
It is is definitely hilly! Was San Francisco the last major US market with relevant CHR on AM? WLS in Chicago lasted longer than WNBC and WABC, but I'm not sure when they started to fade into obscurity.
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WLS fell out of the Top 10 for good the same book KFRC did---spring '85. They were 16th with a 2.8 and being beaten by both WBBM-FM (6th with a 4.4) and WKQX (8th with a 3.6).

Things had been rocky for a while though, with 'LS up and down, in and out of the top ten. WBBM-FM started beating them consistently in the summer of '82.

By 1987, R&R was listing WLS as AC, not CHR.
 
michael hagerty said:
WLS fell out of the Top 10 for good the same book KFRC did---spring '85. They were 16th with a 2.8 and being beaten by both WBBM-FM (6th with a 4.4) and WKQX (8th with a 3.6).

Things had been rocky for a while though, with 'LS up and down, in and out of the top ten. WBBM-FM started beating them consistently in the summer of '82.

By 1987, R&R was listing WLS as AC, not CHR.
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It's impressive that both stations held on with acceptable ratings as long as they did. As you mentioned, KFRC had terrain on its side. Terrain isn't an issue in Chicagoland. For WLS to maintain, even as an AC, in 1987....impressive. They did something right.
 
michael hagerty said:
By 1987, R&R was listing WLS as AC, not CHR.
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That was also the fate of WNBC. They fired Howard Stern in 1985, and the music mellowed after that. They were AC in 1987. But the final blow came in 1988 when the station was sold to Emmis and the new owners transferred the sports talk format from 1050 to 660.

Emmis also bought NBC's KYUU San Francisco, and changed the station to X-100.
 
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