what about 1440 am isn't this frequency Asian and what are the ratings for these frequencies. Either this is a good move to get more listeners to this station like KTSF did for TV. Either this is a way catch up with a new trend. more music stations move to the HD2 or HD3 and all the old AM formats move to FM.
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KSJO to go ethnic
- Thread starter travisl5678
- Start date
airpab said:
airpab said:
Before the nativists start start blowing gaskets, keep in mind that the Chinese community has thrived in the Bay Area since at least the time of the Gold Rush, long before any of us were born. Just because you won the 'lucky sperm club' doesn't make you any better than people who choose to live in this great country and speak another language. Some of my ancestors came here speaking German, Polish and/or weird, defunct Irish dialects. And I'm sure some of yours did too.
And the people who lived here first didn't speak English. Pick a tribe.
That said, brokered Chinese on KSJO sounds like a really, really bad idea. That's a format for cheap AM stations. Does Principal really have that much money to throw around that they can waste it to sell brokered time on a powerful legacy FM station? Then again, if they can get every person of Chinese origin to listen, well that would make them the big fish in the small pond, wouldn't it?
Right now 92.3 KSJO is playing Mandarin Pop Music. Speaking of the demographics. A lot of Mandarin speakers live in South Bay. Majority are from Taiwan, Singapore, and mainland China. While in East bay and in the city (San Francisco) is predominately Chinese speakers. Look at Sing Tao radio. Cantonese program is on 1400AM which targets San Francisco and the Mandarin program is on 96.1 which targets the South Bay area. Plus, lots of Chinese speaking communities comes from affluent backgrounds and have disposable income which means $$$ to advertisers. As for 1510 AM in San Francisco, their signal doesn't target the Mandarin speaking population.
I don't find that it's such a problem with losing lock. But the audio quality is mediocre at best. Pretty much on a par with a low-bandwidth web stream. Also, in our area where the stations are borderline short-spaced, it causes significant interference to adjacent channels. I have an HD radio and even with the new HD-2 channels I get fewer radio stations than I used to before the advent of HD.emprex said:Do people listen to HD radio? I think HD Radio is the worst invention in the 21st century. Because you have a solid signal to lock in a station or will lock out. ;( ;(
Dave B.
Just pitched a Radiosophy receiver. Never could get more than 2 HD signals in the 680 corridor. A waste of 100 grand per station, IMHO. Just about as great an idea as AM stereo. Of course, a couple of the consolidators thought they would get 1 main and 2 HD signals per station, and could sell all of them, tripling their market penetration...and the HD signals would go all the way out to the edge of the main channel signal. That didn't work out so well!
SFStatic said:
Last I heard the only one running HD on their boosters is 102.1. So that's probably why.
Dave B.
SFStatic said:
I would have bought it from you. Plenty of FM HD in NYC -- and the Radiosophy was one of the few decent table radios made for it.
FightingIrish said:
My ancestors were Irish, French and Native American. I can't help but notice the lack of French and Native American stations here. Wonder why that is?
airpab said:
Why? Because some people prefer to listen to programming in another language? Watch it. Both German and Dutch were seriously considered as official U.S. languages back at the founding of our country. You do remember from your history books that New York's original name was New Amsterdam, and that we speak English with not an English accent but a Dutch accent? Well, if you didn't know, now you do.
DavidKaye said:
Maybe so, but in the last couple hundred years, things have changed. You would be hard pressed to convince me that I would be better off today if my ancestors hadn't assimilated into mainstream American culture. Whether they enjoyed the process or not, I'm very thankful that they went through it.
I can't help but think the woman that cleans my office every day is consigning herself and her offspring to a life of relative poverty by refusing to learn English and assimilate. I've known this woman for over 3 years now and she still doesn't speak a word of English. We have to write "basura" on any irregular trash so she'll know to throw it out. Will her kids be cleaning the building someday or one like it? Is Spanish language media in this country helping or hurting these people? If they had to learn English to simply have their entertainment needs met, might that not help them to advance financially and socially?
There is no way my janitor's kids will ever have my job unless they assimilate, and that's a shame. It pays far better than janitorial work.
At least two of my great-grandmothers spoke no English. In the New York City of the early 20th century where they lived, they were served by what was then a flourishing Yiddish-language media - there were multiple daily newspapers and, later, several radio stations catering to their needs, not to mention theaters and music halls.
It was entirely possible to go through an entire day in the neighborhoods where they lived without seeing or hearing a word in English, and the same was true everywhere from the German neighborhoods of Rochester (where we had multiple German-language daily papers as late as the 1930s) to the Polish neighborhoods of Buffalo to the Scandinavian towns of the upper Midwest.
I remember my grandmother, who grew up speaking Yiddish at home and English at school (NYU, thank you very much, and this in the 1930s), switching from English to Yiddish when there was something she had to tell my great-aunt and she didn't want "der kinder" to know what they were saying.
Her children and grandchildren (and now great-grandchildren) have done just fine for themselves. So will your janitor's kids and grandkids.
It was entirely possible to go through an entire day in the neighborhoods where they lived without seeing or hearing a word in English, and the same was true everywhere from the German neighborhoods of Rochester (where we had multiple German-language daily papers as late as the 1930s) to the Polish neighborhoods of Buffalo to the Scandinavian towns of the upper Midwest.
I remember my grandmother, who grew up speaking Yiddish at home and English at school (NYU, thank you very much, and this in the 1930s), switching from English to Yiddish when there was something she had to tell my great-aunt and she didn't want "der kinder" to know what they were saying.
Her children and grandchildren (and now great-grandchildren) have done just fine for themselves. So will your janitor's kids and grandkids.
Scott Fybush said:
How's the Yiddish-language media doing today? You say the German-language papers were gone by the 1930s.
Did they ever become a corporate behemoth like Univision?
We're able to have this discourse today because members of your family wanted more, and more involved embracing English. These days, Spanish-language media at least has grown in size and scope where the news and entertainment needs of the Hispanic community can be met entirely. I doubt that was the case with the now defunct Yiddish and German outlets you speak of.
I'm not sure how it is in your part of the country Scott, but here, you can drive through parts of town where all the signs on storefronts are in Spanish. They are all low-income areas where crime is high. There isn't a single affluent or even middle class neighborhood like this.
recto101 said:
The point was my ancestors assimilated and adopted English language media and American customs. I'm thankful that they did.
radiogooroo said:
There were some fairly large and profitable businesses built out of Yiddish (and German, and Polish, etc.) media back in that era. They either evolved or faded away, just as Univision and Telemundo will have to do in time.
Telemundo, at least, knows this: their youth-oriented service, "Mun2," already runs much of its programming in English. Why? Because while first-generation Hispanic immigrants are, like all first-generation immigrants, predisposed to wanting programming in their native language, their children and grandchildren increasingly live and think and consume entertainment in English.
It most certainly was the case.
Much as you might wish to paint the latest batch of "those people" as being somehow different from all the prior generations of "those people" who've preceded them, there's really less difference than you'd think. As I said in my last post, it was entirely possible to go through an entire day on the Lower East Side of Manhattan circa 1910-1930 without ever using (or needing to use) English. There was full-time Yiddish radio, numerous Yiddish-language newspapers, theaters, music halls, schools, shops, even a sort of makeshift judicial system that served as a community small-claims court.
Here's some fascinating reading about this now-lost world: http://yiddishradioproject.org/
Yup. Believe it or not, this is what assimilation looks like. My great-grandparents were "those people," too. The neighborhoods where they lived in New York City were the low-rent, high-crime places of their day. The neighborhood here in Rochester where my grandfather grew up is an area where I'm hesitant to go now even in daylight, never mind at night.
The story of immigration and assimilation in America has been ever thus: immigrants don't leave their native land because they're wealthy and comfortable - if they were, they'd stay where they are. They leave because they're poor. The first generation of immigrants come here poor and, at least for a while, live in poverty, working menial jobs, speaking their native tongues and (if they're lucky) getting some comfort and a sense of community from media that speak those tongues, too.
It's the generations that follow that really become part of the melting pot, and it doesn't ever happen overnight. Those bagels that are on your brunch buffet this weekend? It took them a century to go from peasant food in eastern Europe to the jalapeno-cheddar concoctions you can get in the freezer case in a Sioux Falls Safeway, right next to the frozen pierogis and spring rolls.
We are still in the first- and second-generation phase of the southwestern Hispanic immigration wave. There's already demographic data (where's David Gleason when we need him?) showing that Hispanics are following much the same path that my grandparents did - and your ancestors, too, wherever they came from: the generations that are born here, especially the third generation, grow up speaking English and participating in "mainstream" American culture, no matter what media their parents and grandparents consume.
Scott, I'm not sure I like what you're implying by the repeated use of the phrase "those people." If you'll re-read my points, it's my position that inclusion would be easier for everyone if they weren't catered to here in their native tongues. I'm all for inclusion, not exclusion.
I view these foreign language media outlets here in America as exploitative. I don't think Univision has any plans to morph into an English language outlet over time - their plan appears to be to keep replenishing their first generation audience. http://noticias.univision.com/inmigracion/ Run it through Google Translate and read the page and the pages linked from it (assuming you don't read Spanish) or just look for the word "republicanos." Univision "news" appears to be served up with quite a bit of opinion. The site is filled with images of Hispanics in handcuffs totally unrelated to the stories themselves. I don't see how this type of propaganda could spark anything but divisiveness.
I'm all about including anyone of any race in the American dream. I think Univision is all about keeping its viewers and listeners locked into a Mexican-American dream. Hyphenated American is good for business if you're Univision.
I view these foreign language media outlets here in America as exploitative. I don't think Univision has any plans to morph into an English language outlet over time - their plan appears to be to keep replenishing their first generation audience. http://noticias.univision.com/inmigracion/ Run it through Google Translate and read the page and the pages linked from it (assuming you don't read Spanish) or just look for the word "republicanos." Univision "news" appears to be served up with quite a bit of opinion. The site is filled with images of Hispanics in handcuffs totally unrelated to the stories themselves. I don't see how this type of propaganda could spark anything but divisiveness.
I'm all about including anyone of any race in the American dream. I think Univision is all about keeping its viewers and listeners locked into a Mexican-American dream. Hyphenated American is good for business if you're Univision.
radiogooroo said:
That "assimilation" really takes place in the second generation in most cases.
A read on language acquisition might be useful so you could understand what goes on here. The ability to acquire another language declines as a person enters adolescence and becomes more and more difficult into adulthood.
There are copious stories of first generation immigrants who learned good or quite adequate English. But the fact remains that for most, learning anything beyond vocabulary, limited syntax and the ability to translate back and forth into the "language of the mind" which is the birth tongue.
And music taste is generally accepted by sociologists and cultural anthropologists to be formed in early adolescence and it does not change other than such change as is an effect of age and experience, after that.
In other words, most immigrants who come as adults or late teens will think in their birth tongue always, and their musical tastes will be those acquired in the home country. So foreign language media that communicates about the new country and plays the well-loved music of home has a definite place in establishing family roots in the US.
And, while the second generation may be bilingual, they will be, culturally, a part of each thing: the cultural heritage of the parents and the spirit of the new country. So, while able to use and enjoy, in the frame of reference of radio, general market media, they will often enjoy the music and language they grew up on.
Unfortunately, not all parents encourage children to learn both the new tongue and the heritage one, whether that be Tagalog, Mandarin, Russian, Farsi or Spanish. Being bilingual is a mind-broadening thing, giving rise to enhanced abilities to understand that there are many ways to interpret the things of everyday life... because language is a product of culture, and understanding diverse cultures enables one to understand diverse thoughts, too.
Ancecdotally, I formed my music preferences in the way described in the text books and studies. Despite living now 19 years in the Continental US, I don't find music on English language stations of any particularly appeal... except for those U.S. songs I remember playing on the radio long ago in Ecuador. No matter how long I am here, I will not start liking Bon Jovi or System of a Down or anything in between...
I still recall walking into my grandmother's Brooklyn home in the 1950s and hearing Italian programming on the radio. I believe the station was then WOV. WEVD was the Yiddish station.
By the late 1960s, Italian programming was gone. The Jewish Forward continued own WEVD for many years at several different spots on the AM and FM dial. In 2001, WEVD vanished from the New York dial and currently operates as WEPN (1050 ESPN). WOV is now WADO, a Spanish news station.
By the late 1960s, Italian programming was gone. The Jewish Forward continued own WEVD for many years at several different spots on the AM and FM dial. In 2001, WEVD vanished from the New York dial and currently operates as WEPN (1050 ESPN). WOV is now WADO, a Spanish news station.
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