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KSUR Goes All-Christmas

J

Joey1986

This evening, I discovered that KSUR has switched to an all-Christmas format, branded as “Sounds of the Season on AM 1260.” Usually, it’s Go Country 105 KKGO-FM that goes all-Christmas. The last paragraph of KSUR’s Wikipedia article, for what it’s worth and added by an anonymous user, says this:

On November 21st, 2020 KSUR dropped there (sic) Oldies Format and began playing all Christmas Music it’s unknown if KSUR is gonna debut a new format after the holidays
Click to expand...

This makes me wonder if Saul might actually be getting ready to spin the format wheel at KSUR again.

Anyone here in the know?
 
TheBigA said:
Saul's son Michael told Country Aircheck that KKGO will do its annual Christmas flip on its regular day, which is this Monday.
Click to expand...

Yes, I couldn't believe it. We have been talking about KSUR a lot lately, but I haven't tuned in in awhile, so I thought I would check in to get my oldies fix last night and instead got Barbara Streisand singing a Christmas carol. Oy vey, it is not even Thanksgiving yet!

It is hard to keep track of Saul's various channels, so here they are as of 6:00 pm yesterday (11/21/20):

KKGO HD1: GO Country (sounding pretty good)
KKGO HD2: KSUR - Now apparently full time Christmas (and lots of real Christmas songs, not just "Sleigh Ride")
KKGO HD3: KKJZ - Jazz from Cal State Long Beach
KKGO HD4: KMOZART - All the classics from the last 400 years!
 
How much bandwidth is each HD channel running? I assume 32 + 32 + 32 + 24 kbps, unless the HD1 is at 48 kbps with the rest all dialed down to 24. Are they all encoding in stereo? Classical music must sound awesome at 24 kbps but I guess when you've got lemons you make lemonade.
 
Mastaclocksetta said:
My suspicions have been (partially) confirmed. The oldies are going away, but only on AM 1260. On December 1, at 6:00 AM, the format will change to classical (knowing Saul, I have a feeling that the call letters will change to KMZT), according to the article linked below. The oldies format will live on at KKGO-FM (105.1) HD2.

https://www.pe.com/2020/11/23/theres-a-surprising-format-change-coming-to-this-la-radio-station/amp/
Click to expand...

This should reduce the AM's audience to double digits -- human beings, not share numbers! While some old folks might find a certain nostalgic value to listening to oldies the way they did in the '50s and '60s, when the songs were new, I can't imagine anyone who listened to classical music on AM back then having any desire to hear it on AM now.

If Saul doesn't plan to stream KKGO-HD2, the move will save him money, since he'll be shedding the streaming freeloaders from far-off cities who run up his Sound Exchange bill every time they listen while doing nothing to help him sell advertising to local businesses.
 
Mastaclocksetta said:
My suspicions have been (partially) confirmed. The oldies are going away, but only on AM 1260. On December 1, at 6:00 AM, the format will change to classical (knowing Saul, I have a feeling that the call letters will change to KMZT), according to the article linked below.

https://www.pe.com/2020/11/23/theres-a-surprising-format-change-coming-to-this-la-radio-station/amp/
Click to expand...

Perhaps 1260 will adopt the KFAC call letters as a nod to the history of Classical Radio on AM in LA (the old KFAC 1330 which had the format for half a century.). The call is currently used on a LPFM in Twisp, Washington.

Note that the “retro style” radio pictured in the linked article not only includes shortwave, but also combined OIRT and CCIR FM band coverage.
 
CTListener said:
If Saul doesn't plan to stream KKGO-HD2, the move will save him money, since he'll be shedding the streaming freeloaders from far-off cities
Click to expand...

As we said, he has no emotional attachment to oldies. If it didn't make money, it was expendable. Now he can focus on his true love.
 
Mediafrog+ said:
Perhaps 1260 will adopt the KFAC call letters as a nod to the history of Classical Radio on AM in LA (the old KFAC 1330 which had the format for half a century.).
Click to expand...

What a coincidence. 1330 was also the frequency WCRB Waltham/Boston used for decades, simulcasting with 102.5 FM for several years before wider public adoption of FM brought about the end of the format on 1330. I remember riding with my dad in and around Boston on 1960s weekends as he listened to the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts on 1330, not yet having an FM receiver in his car. At home, he listened to 102.5 only, plus the non-comm FMs that also played classical music.
 
CTListener said:
I can't imagine anyone who listened to classical music on AM back then having any desire to hear it on AM now.
Click to expand...

I was trying to think of the most recent examples of Classical music on AM...and KXTR 1660 in Kansas City came to mind. KXTR was on AM for about a dozen years after it's FM demise in 2000. The AM finally dropped the format in 2012.

One of the several incarnations of Classical KVOD in Denver was on 1280 AM for a short while in the late 90's before going back to FM as a non-comm (Classical KVOD has had five homes in the Mile High City over the years: 99.5, 92.5, 1280, 90.1, 88.1.)

Better known stations were of course WQXR 1560 in NYC which was Classical from the mid 1930's to around 1993, as well as LA's KFAC 1330, mentioned earlier in this thread. KKHI 1550 in San Francisco was another Classical AM.

Probably numerous other examples in the last 50 years that are slipping my mind right now.

I imagine somewhere in greater LA is a Classical music fan with a vintage AM radio that will tune in 1260 and wallow in nostalgia for a few hours. Of course, you could always buy or build a Part 15 AM transmitter, feed it a "modern" Classical music source, and do the same thing...
 
Mediafrog+ said:
I was trying to think of the most recent examples of Classical music on AM...and KXTR 1660 in Kansas City came to mind. KXTR was on AM for about a dozen years after it's FM demise in 2000. The AM finally dropped the format in 2012.

One of the several incarnations of Classical KVOD in Denver was on 1280 AM for a short while in the late 90's before going back to FM as a non-comm (Classical KVOD has had five homes in the Mile High City over the years: 99.5, 92.5, 1280, 90.1, 88.1.)

Better known stations were of course WQXR 1560 in NYC which was Classical from the mid 1930's to around 1993, as well as LA's KFAC 1330, mentioned earlier in this thread. KKHI 1550 in San Francisco was another Classical AM.

Probably numerous other examples in the last 50 years that are slipping my mind right now.

I imagine somewhere in greater LA is a Classical music fan with a vintage AM radio that will tune in 1260 and wallow in nostalgia for a few hours. Of course, you could always buy or build a Part 15 AM transmitter, feed it a "modern" Classical music source, and do the same thing...
Click to expand...


Again, Saul's betting on HD listening---which, if you're in 1260's strong area, sounds really good.
 
michael hagerty said:
Again, Saul's betting on HD listening---which, if you're in 1260's strong area, sounds really good.
Click to expand...

When I checked out the HD streams on Saturday I was surprised at how well they sounded. Usually stations with multiple HD channels sound compressed even to this non audiophile's ear. The KSUR Oldies sounded really bad in particular. But all four channels were sounding pretty good to me - still noticed the compression on the Jazz and Classical channels, but not nearly as much as before. They sounded just as good as the XM channels I usually listen to - compressed, but not enough to make me change stations.
 
Mediafrog+ said:
I was trying to think of the most recent examples of Classical music on AM...and KXTR 1660 in Kansas City came to mind. KXTR was on AM for about a dozen years after it's FM demise in 2000. The AM finally dropped the format in 2012.

One of the several incarnations of Classical KVOD in Denver was on 1280 AM for a short while in the late 90's before going back to FM as a non-comm (Classical KVOD has had five homes in the Mile High City over the years: 99.5, 92.5, 1280, 90.1, 88.1.)

Better known stations were of course WQXR 1560 in NYC which was Classical from the mid 1930's to around 1993, as well as LA's KFAC 1330, mentioned earlier in this thread. KKHI 1550 in San Francisco was another Classical AM.

Probably numerous other examples in the last 50 years that are slipping my mind right now.
Click to expand...

WCCC(AM) Hartford ran Beethoven Network on 1290 for quite a few years in this millennium, before it and its FM sister station, WCCC-FM 106.9, were sold to EMF a few years back.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
When I checked out the HD streams on Saturday I was surprised at how well they sounded. Usually stations with multiple HD channels sound compressed even to this non audiophile's ear. The KSUR Oldies sounded really bad in particular. But all four channels were sounding pretty good to me - still noticed the compression on the Jazz and Classical channels, but not nearly as much as before. They sounded just as good as the XM channels I usually listen to - compressed, but not enough to make me change stations.
Click to expand...


And I wasn't even talking about the HD streams of KKGO, Flip. He's running AM HD on 1260. And it's not sharing bandwidth with anything else. Everyone I've heard from who listens to 1260 in HD says it's remarkable. So, if he can get the audience to listen on HD radios, he really doesn't have a technical issue in terms of audio quality for classical music.

How that's supposed to pull people away from KUSC, I don't know.

And a quick note about demographics----Classical doesn't just pull 80-year-olds. A lot of it is in presentation. I'm working for a two-station public cluster. I'm on the NPR news station, the other is Classical, but it's presented by younger hosts with contemporary, casual deliveries and it definitely draws middle-aged adults as well.
 
michael hagerty said:
And a quick note about demographics----Classical doesn't just pull 80-year-olds. A lot of it is in presentation. I'm working for a two-station public cluster. I'm on the NPR news station, the other is Classical, but it's presented by younger hosts with contemporary, casual deliveries and it definitely draws middle-aged adults as well.
Click to expand...

Sounds like WSHU's two formats in southern Connecticut. The classical (9 a.m.-4 p.m., then 8 p.m. through the overnight) WSHU 91.1 is a lot less stuffy sounding than the similarly formatted WFCR 88.5 in western Massachusetts. The presence of two female hosts is a big plus.

Although the beauty of radio is that it's not visual and a person can sound much younger than his or her actual age. When I first heard Preston Trombly on SiriusXM after the merger in 2008, I figured him to be in his late 30s or early 40s. He actually was in his 60s, and is 74 today -- six years YOUNGER than Martin Goldsmith, who sounded ancient from the first time I heard him, yet is only 68 now.
 
CTListener said:
Sounds like WSHU's two formats in southern Connecticut. The classical (9 a.m.-4 p.m., then 8 p.m. through the overnight) WSHU 91.1 is a lot less stuffy sounding than the similarly formatted WFCR 88.5 in western Massachusetts. The presence of two female hosts is a big plus.

Although the beauty of radio is that it's not visual and a person can sound much younger than his or her actual age. When I first heard Preston Trombly on SiriusXM after the merger in 2008, I figured him to be in his late 30s or early 40s. He actually was in his 60s, and is 74 today -- six years YOUNGER than Martin Goldsmith, who sounded ancient from the first time I heard him, yet is only 68 now.
Click to expand...

The voice thing works for me---I'm the 64-year-old anchor in a Sacramento newsroom full of brilliant 20-something reporters. I sound like I always have. That's shocked a couple of listeners. We're a regional station, with a signal that covers Reno/Tahoe---where I was on the radio 43 years ago. I've been asked if I was "Mike Hagerty's son".

As for our Classical station, a great example of our appeal is Jennifer Reason, who joined for middays a year and a half ago:

https://www.capradio.org/news/insig...avy-metal-loving-midday-classical-music-host/
 
michael hagerty said:
The voice thing works for me---I'm the 64-year-old anchor in a Sacramento newsroom full of brilliant 20-something reporters. I sound like I always have. That's shocked a couple of listeners. We're a regional station, with a signal that covers Reno/Tahoe---where I was on the radio 43 years ago. I've been asked if I was "Mike Hagerty's son".

As for our Classical station, a great example of our appeal is Jennifer Reason, who joined for middays a year and a half ago:

https://www.capradio.org/news/insig...avy-metal-loving-midday-classical-music-host/
Click to expand...

The voice of Reason heard only on public radio. How reassuring. (Yeah, I'm sure she's heard that far too often. Fortunately I am a continent's-breadth away and out of range of her black-belt taekwondo kicks.)

Oh, please tell your webmaster that this headline has been on the website since yesterday: California Coronavirus Updates: Four More Counties Move To Most Restrictive Rier. Those aren't tiers of joy I'm crying.
 
CTListener said:
The voice of Reason heard only on public radio. How reassuring. (Yeah, I'm sure she's heard that far too often. Fortunately I am a continent's-breadth away and out of range of her black-belt taekwondo kicks.)

Oh, please tell your webmaster that this headline has been on the website since yesterday: California Coronavirus Updates: Four More Counties Move To Most Restrictive Rier. Those aren't tiers of joy I'm crying.
Click to expand...

Thanks, CTListener. I've passed that along.
 
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