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Denver KTLF runs into translator issues for the Denver metro

I guess it's too much to ask you to read the preceding posts in the thread before posting something about it, especially if the thread is still at one page.

KQMT-HD3 is already in use by KTLF to feed translator K292FM. The petition for reconsideration that ECCS (KTLF) has filed asks to use KQMT-HD3 for a second translator, K213EG/K214FV, which is licensed to Littleton but which will be on Lookout Mountain, just like K292FM, and will have similar coverage to K292FM. There is no "secondary format" on KQMT-HD3. If two translators both use KQMT-HD3 as their source, then they are going to have the same programming.
I have read them, so dont assume i hadnt. This is kinda confusing to follow to begin

K237CY​
95.3​
Fort Collins​
The Light​
KTLF​
fccdata.org primary station listed is incorrect​
FCC data says the primary as of July 7th is KRKU Hillsdale, WY via another translator which im guessing is K222DS 92.3 (listed on KRKYs own website)

The 95.3 was owned by KTLF, sold it to Cedar cove..was also listed as off air till 7/6 as it didnt assume the lease KTLF had for it and is now located about 100 100 yards away from the KXJJ 1570 tower (a cedar cove related company used to own 1570 and 95.3 is now rebroadcasting another Cedar cover station.) (useless trivia, the set of calls mountain community translators/cedar cove love to use are KKHI.. theyve been on 9 stations in Northern CO/Southeast WY and KVAM have been on a few)

See, told you this was tough to follow
 
Between the duplicate IDs, IDs of stations that don't exist, incorrect city of license for a full-power station, and so on, does ECCS even know what they have?

My two cents' worth: That's the question that needs to be unraveled and answered before there's any hope of really figuring out what's going on.
 
FCC data says the primary as of July 7th is KRKU Hillsdale, WY via another translator which im guessing is K222DS 92.3 (listed on KRKYs own website)
This screenshot for translator K237CY is from the FCC's own FM query. It clearly shows KTLF as the primary for K237CY. It does show Cedar Cove Broadcasting as the owner.

1784685725434.png

If you want to tell the FCC that their data is wrong, be my guest.
 
The station licensed to Dolores, CO, is KTCF at 89.5 mHz. Here is the fccdata.org link to the station's information:

Thank you, Ted! If you picked that up from hearing the audio file, then your hearing is better than mine! I kept hearing "KTZT" or "KTCT" and I knew that "KTCT" had to be wrong. I'll update the spreadsheet but won't post that here to avoid giving people any more headaches than there already have been.
 
My two cents' worth: That's the question that needs to be unraveled and answered before there's any hope of really figuring out what's going on.
The Dolores mystery, at least, is solved. The rest of it just seems like inventory control that needs improvement.
 
This screenshot for translator K237CY is from the FCC's own FM query. It clearly shows KTLF as the primary for K237CY. It does show Cedar Cove Broadcasting as the owner.

View attachment 12435

If you want to tell the FCC that their data is wrong, be my guest.

I will, because a modification application filed March 19, specifies the new primary.... KRKU Hillsdale, WY via another translator

Try reading applications before you assume I havent.
 
I will, because a modification application filed March 19, specifies the new primary.... KRKU Hillsdale, WY via another translator

Try reading applications before you assume I havent.
Before you fall off your high horse, keep in mind that the discussion here originated in a petition for reconsideration involving a couple of translators in the Denver area and the rationale for that petition. The Fort Collins translator is ancillary to that discussion at most, and not essential in understanding the Denver petition. Moreover, the FCC data reflects current state as does the spreadsheet that I put together.

If you want to argue about FCC data regarding a stinkin' translator, that's your choice. I couldn't care less. There's a bigger issue that the petition hints at, and @fybush correctly pointed it out: the inconsistency and complexity of the translator rules. It's possible they're at the point where a court could consider them capricious and arbitrary. The really interesting future development is whether ECCS pursues its argument far enough for a court to examine it. Whether it's worth spending that much money on a couple of translators is a whole other question in itself, but ECCS has at least taken the first step.
 
Before you fall off your high horse, keep in mind that the discussion here originated in a petition for reconsideration involving a couple of translators in the Denver area and the rationale for that petition. The Fort Collins translator is ancillary to that discussion at most, and not essential in understanding the Denver petition. Moreover, the FCC data reflects current state as does the spreadsheet that I put together.

If you want to argue about FCC data regarding a stinkin' translator, that's your choice. I couldn't care less. There's a bigger issue that the petition hints at, and @fybush correctly pointed it out: the inconsistency and complexity of the translator rules. It's possible they're at the point where a court could consider them capricious and arbitrary. The really interesting future development is whether ECCS pursues its argument far enough for a court to examine it. Whether it's worth spending that much money on a couple of translators is a whole other question in itself, but ECCS has at least taken the first step.

And i dont think this is the last filing that KTLF will make, because if i recall what they said in their rebuttal was they were due a due reason/explination.. theyre goin to get that and then argue against that

If the FCC ends up acquiescing to KTLF, this will open a can of worms and set a precedence they will regret settig
 
We can agree on that point.


I assume that, by "they", you mean the FCC. The FCC may not have a choice in the matter if it goes to court.

If you read the letter of the law, the way its currently written, the way i interpret it.... its not legal. Because while youre broadcasting an HD Sub channel, its still under the main license...... and this would open up a licensing nightmare
 
Station
Frequency
City
Program
Primary
Additional Information
K234AJ​
94.7​
Colorado Springs​
Reflections​
KTLF (HD3)​
identical coverage to K248AS​
K248AS​
97.5​
Colorado Springs​
Reflections​
KTPL (HD?)​
actual COL: Woodland Park​
KTLF-HD3​
90.5​
Colorado Springs​
Reflections​
K247BP​
97.3​
Pueblo​
Reflections​
KTLF (HD3)​
K204GY​
88.7​
Brush​
See Note 4​
KTLF (HD?)​
Note 4 – also see K220IM entry for The Legacy​
K218DB​
91.5​
Vilas-Springfield​
Reflections​
KTLF (HD3)​



Between the duplicate IDs, IDs of stations that don't exist, incorrect city of license for a full-power station, and so on, does ECCS even know what they have?
It seems like that was a lot of work to post all of that. Thanks.

Stepping back from the waiver discussion, I'm curious how folks in Colorado view the ECOCS network. I plotted out some of the better signals on RadioLand. It seems they can cover most of the population centers along I-25 and many of the larger communities around the state with about half of their signals. It obviously isn't the same as owning a network of full power FM's, but the total population coverage seems substantial.

Is it generally viewed by locals as an impressive statewide build-out, or more of an unwieldy collection of translators and small market full power FM's?
 
It seems like that was a lot of work to post all of that. Thanks.

Stepping back from the waiver discussion, I'm curious how folks in Colorado view the ECOCS network. I plotted out some of the better signals on RadioLand. It seems they can cover most of the population centers along I-25 and many of the larger communities around the state with about half of their signals. It obviously isn't the same as owning a network of full power FM's, but the total population coverage seems substantial.

Is it generally viewed by locals as an impressive statewide build-out, or more of an unwieldy collection of translators and small market full power FM's?

The general public doesnt understand the difference between low power translators and full power signals... .. they have no idea what a translator is, just that they dont reach as far
Owning translators in sparsley populated areas is a much less expensive way to get a signal on the air and cover what counts in terms of population without wasting signal on tumbleweeds
 
Owning translators in sparsley populated areas is a much less expensive way to get a signal on the air and cover what counts in terms of population without wasting signal on tumbleweeds

Paul, I really wish you would stop acting in this thread as if you were a Denver resident. You're not. I am. Richard is asking how locals perceive ECCS. That's not a question you can answer.

It seems like that was a lot of work to post all of that. Thanks.
The data-gathering was most of it. Spreadsheets may be a lowest common denominator when it comes to data analysis, but they're still useful and flexible. It also helped that the board software was smart enough to translate a screen-scraping cut-and-paste to a tabular format.

I'm tempted to do the same thing for a couple of the public radio networks, but not right away.


Stepping back from the waiver discussion, I'm curious how folks in Colorado view the ECOCS network. I plotted out some of the better signals on RadioLand. It seems they can cover most of the population centers along I-25 and many of the larger communities around the state with about half of their signals. It obviously isn't the same as owning a network of full power FM's, but the total population coverage seems substantial.

Is it generally viewed by locals as an impressive statewide build-out, or more of an unwieldy collection of translators and small market full power FM's?
ECCS is based in Colorado Springs, which historically has been a center of evangelical activity. You'll note that the second and third KTLF networks are mostly based in southern Colorado, though not exclusively so. I think the Denver-area operations are a relatively minor addition for them, but they clearly want to have a presence here. The K292FM translator covers some suburban areas where there might be an interest in KTLF's genre of programming. It also covers areas in Denver where there's likely to be very little such interest (LoHi, Berkeley, and so on, possibly even Capitol Hill or City Park if you have a good receiver).

Aside from that, the contemporary-Christian marketplace in Denver is almost as saturated as the market for sports talk. (There's an idea: Christian sports talk. You heard it here first!) Just among full-power stations, there's K-Love, Way FM, and Pillar Media (three stations). K-Love's Air1 is on a translator, as is KTLF "The Light". So I think it would be hard for any one such station to be predominant in this environment. The Light probably has its listeners, and it appears they would like to expand based on their recent purchases, but most people aren't going to know about the extensive network, even if they hear the full TOH ID. When you listen to the audio of that ID, you'll notice that, aside from the parent KTLF, the first stations that are mentioned are both Denver.

Some of the ECCS outstate stations are full-power stations that are just a little more powerful than a translator. That guarantees they won't be displaced (unlike the situation in Brush, which seems to have an uncommon amount of broadcast activity for a community its size).

But I think the core ECCS audience is in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Other locations, even Denver, are a nice addition for them but not as central to their mission. But it's enough for them to acquire a couple more translators (one of which is to be reconfigured for better Boulder coverage, though Boulder also seems like a community where there wouldn't be that much interest in KTLF's programming) and to lease an HD channel on a full-market FM.
 
Paul, I really wish you would stop acting in this thread as if you were a Denver resident. You're not. I am. Richard is asking how locals perceive ECCS. That's not a question you can answer.

KTLF used to have a signal here, one I actuall went up the hill to work on with another engineer, but they have since sold it., I have a different perspective than you on some things and im not trying to act like or claim to be a Denver resident but Im not far away and may have different perspective or opinion than you.

So, again, don't assume what I'm implying or thinking
 


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